BT Forum

I used Be Iron Fit to do my first Ironman. The longest bricks included a 1hr transition run. That said, the very next morning I did my weekly long run on very tired legs. Example:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/index-weekly.asp?memberid=111147&year=2010&month=10&day=31

If you look at the IM/HIM section of threads we have had a lots of discussion about bricks, how long should be longest long runs and more. You can use the search feature to find some of the older threads.

Many coaches recommend longest long run max is 2.5 hours.

I've done 110/90' bricks that all did was give me a great deal of fatigue that negatively impacted my training.

Now max I do is 45' as a brick run.

My longest run off the bike (outside of races) is usually 30-45'.  I don't do many runs much over 2hrs.

Long workouts (and, especially, bricks) are confidence-builders.  Most of your fitness is built in the many individual sessions you do over time.  That is why consistency trumps a few big workouts.

And running on "tired legs" is the same thing.  There is no special fitness benefit to training that way.  For some people, it is worse, because their legs are so beat that the quality of their running is much less than if they moved the run to another day when they are a bit "fresher".

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."

Coaches are always saying something different than some other coach. There is always some new study to refute or corroborate the previous study. There is always someone saying <new idea> is far better than <old idea>, along with someone saying <old, musty idea from deep in the past> was actually right all along.

The racing flats of the 60s were replaced by new running shoes of the 70s which reigned supreme for 30 years until they returned as minimilist shoes of today.

This is what makes training interesting for me.  I could pick some guru to follow, some One True Coach, and then use that allegiace to beat up on non-believers.  Or I could follow the latest news, data, and information (also known as "fads") and be on the cutting edge.  Or I could go all old school and ride around on Brooks saddles, wearing wool jersey on a steel Italian bike with downtube shifters, and claim that one day everyone will realize how silly they've been and tri saddles, carbon bikes, and technical fabrics provide no advantage.

Or I can sit back and read BT and ST threads arguing back and forth the age-old questions, including this one about bricks, and then follow what I think works for me.

I think this summarizes my thoughts on the subject very well.  I do very few true bricks.  Most of my two a day workouts have a gap due to schedule.  Towards race time I might do a very short run off a long bike but it is more for mental prep.  I prefer to focus on high quality single long workouts.  I also do not recover as rapidly as younger folks so even an hour run off a long ride would leave my upcoming workouts compromised.

Excellent points...and I think very much in line with the intent of my article, which you can read on BT here.

Note that we are not saying that bricks are "bad" for long course triathlon. We just think you should rethink their value which, in our experience as coaches of Ironman athletes, is very different from the value of bricks in short course training. Just read what we have to say, reflect on your own experience, and make your own decision.

Regarding research...this isn't based on research, or at least scientific research. Rather, this guidance is based on our observations as the coaches of a team of 600+ Ironman athletes, and as athletes who have nearly 30 IM finishes between us. And I think you'll find this deemphasis on bricks as a training tool for long course triathlon reflects what a lot of experienced IM athletes have learned for themselves over time.

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The nutrition probably won't change between hours 4-7 of training and 12-13 of racing, except to note that you'll be running at the end (harder for some to tolerate, compared to taking calories on the bike). 

As far as getting through without walking, as above, you just have to train lots, and trust your training

I agree with much of what was said above, but I disagree with this statement.  There can be quite significant differences regarding nutrition between 4-7 hours of training and 12-13 of racing.  I know that I, personally, can be quite sloppy with my nutrition in a HIM and still get through just fine, but for longer races I have to be more meticulous.

I would also suggest that while there is no substitution for the experience of actually doing an IM (or two or three), one benefit of a longer brick is a way to practice nutrition.  I wouldn't suggest doing one if it is going to compromise your subsequent training seriously, but if you have sufficient fitness and ability to recover to absorb a long brick, I think it is worth doing.  Another option that might be less stressful is to do a very long bike ride.

That said, it is entirely possible to finish an IM, and do so successfully, without doing any long bricks.  They don't provide some magical physiological ability to go well for the distance.  That ability comes from solid S/B/R training.