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2012-05-16 1:03 AM
in reply to: #4139393


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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
New to the site...kind of. Don't really care for blogging but this hit a nerve. As a 'dale, no matter the standard, (unless they bump it to 250) I agree with the change. I have been doing tri's for the last three years and was a former collegiate lineman / linebacker (6'2" 270 in the day). I got a degree in sports medicine and am a CSCS for my fire dept. so I have an idea of height/weight relationships. I have raced against those that are definite 'dales like me and those on the cusp, (6' ish, maybe 200lbs.) I was sandwiched between the two at a race several years ago. The smaller of the two was extremely questionable. I am not for weigh-in's, etc. but there does need to be a little amateur professionalism. If you are a big guy/girl so be it, sign up for C/A. If you don't weight over 200 or 220 as the case may be, your in age group, deal with it. In that race I spoke of before, I finished only 6 mins. behind said individual and was extremely pleased with myself. He was at least 3 in. and 50-60lbs. smaller than me. I even have a picture of some of us that my wife took, I dwarf him. In this day and age, anyone with decent height and any significant muscle size/tone will be pushing 200 lbs. Think about NFL quarterbacks or anyone in MLB. They are all over 200. As others have stated, smaller people have advantages in certain situations, as do larger individuals. As a surfer / diver / surf tech. and having had rode bikes for years, I can blaze on the swim and bike...the run hurts, as it does for most. Put in a sub 26:00 last race so I was happy with myself. I have my training plan, put in the hrs. / miles, and when the race comes, do the best I can. The last race I did, I actually came in 1st in the U-39 Clydesdale class. Shocker, but cool. Never thought I had a chance. More importantly I came in 46th out of 248 in the sprint. I felt better about that than the 1st. As always, it's a personal challenge, with competition assisting in that effort. For me it is about health / longevity. I want to be healthy for my family, my work, and enjoy a long healthy life. Training for tri's gives me that avenue. It also makes you durable and mentally tough. Rule change, no rule change, who gives a @#$t. Ask Nike has said for years,"Just Do It". I'll be in SF for the GG Tri. Neosport wetsuit, say HI.


2012-05-16 6:15 AM
in reply to: #4139393

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

Thanks for your thought Drhoads - welcome to the forum. I just have to say I have never heard the shortened version as 'dales, almost always cyldes. I like that. Like Topher instead of Chris from Christopher.

I just realized I won't be a Clyde next year. This is weird for me, since when I started this thing, I considered a C calf tattoo since I was sure I'd be Clyde for life. But I just went from 285 to 250 in 4 months, and I am not stopping now. My dexa scans show I can safely look at 190, even 180 as a healthy goal. I'll be out of 220 territory for next season, maybe 200 by then with this clean eating and 12 step recovery.

2012-05-17 10:32 AM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
At 6'6" and 240, I'll be eligible for Clydes for the foreseeable future.  My chief concern with the change is shrinking the size of the group I'm competing in.  The few tris I've done have only had 1-2 dozen in the category (sometimes less), so I'm interested to see what effect this has on the numbers.  As to "winning," I'd rather have a strong race and be 5th out of 20 than 2nd out of 3, so I hope the groups can stay somewhat competitively large.
2012-05-17 10:59 AM
in reply to: #4214863

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

mpento17 - 2012-05-17 10:32 AM At 6'6" and 240, I'll be eligible for Clydes for the foreseeable future.  My chief concern with the change is shrinking the size of the group I'm competing in.  The few tris I've done have only had 1-2 dozen in the category (sometimes less), so I'm interested to see what effect this has on the numbers.  As to "winning," I'd rather have a strong race and be 5th out of 20 than 2nd out of 3, so I hope the groups can stay somewhat competitively large.

Even now that I've been vanity sized out of the category I'm more concerned about this among the Athenas.

There have been races where there were fewer Athenas than podium slots, cutting out a large percentage of athenas will not be helpful for the group.

2012-05-17 11:17 AM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
NewClydesdale - 2012-05-17 10:59 AM

mpento17 - 2012-05-17 10:32 AM At 6'6" and 240, I'll be eligible for Clydes for the foreseeable future.  My chief concern with the change is shrinking the size of the group I'm competing in.  The few tris I've done have only had 1-2 dozen in the category (sometimes less), so I'm interested to see what effect this has on the numbers.  As to "winning," I'd rather have a strong race and be 5th out of 20 than 2nd out of 3, so I hope the groups can stay somewhat competitively large.

Even now that I've been vanity sized out of the category I'm more concerned about this among the Athenas.

There have been races where there were fewer Athenas than podium slots, cutting out a large percentage of athenas will not be helpful for the group.

Agree.  The biggest Athena group I've been in is 9.  The next biggest was I think 6.  Usually 3 max.

2012-05-18 6:43 PM
in reply to: #4214956

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

 

[QUOTE

]NewClydesdale - 2012-05-17 9:59 AM

mpento17 - 2012-05-17 10:32 AM At 6'6" and 240, I'll be eligible for Clydes for the foreseeable future.  My chief concern with the change is shrinking the size of the group I'm competing in.  The few tris I've done have only had 1-2 dozen in the category (sometimes less), so I'm interested to see what effect this has on the numbers.  As to "winning," I'd rather have a strong race and be 5th out of 20 than 2nd out of 3, so I hope the groups can stay somewhat competitively large.

Even now that I've been vanity sized out of the category I'm more concerned about this among the Athenas.

There have been races where there were fewer Athenas than podium slots, cutting out a large percentage of athenas will not be helpful for the group.

 

In all fairness, I've see a lot of Athenas not in the Athena class. The podium could be empty and a lot of ladies would never admit to being an Athena.

I really have mixed feeling about this move and the Clyde class. All sides have good points, and I guess it comes down to what the class is supposed to be for.  I'm right in the gray area here, and in someways  at 200lbs it wouldn't be fair because my build would make me closer to competitive in my AG.  On the other hand, for the same reasons I'll probably never be really competitive for over all or some AG because I'll never run like some of those 140-150 guys

Obviously, we need to just make it based on body fat %.



2012-10-18 11:21 AM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

Joined cause i needed to vent!! i fall into the tall and fit catagory and just heard about new rules... 6-2 215 46yrs old. so i am hampered by age too. the 45-49 group is extremely competitive in this area. there are routinely 5-8 guys in the top 20 of any given race. the average size of my races are 250-350 with about 10 guys in the clyde. i usually place in these races and am top 40 overall. i always look to see where i would have placed in a/g and am always more concerned with racing against me and my past race times than winning clydes....that being said it is nice to be in a division where i can be competetive and podium!

i refuse to increase weight as my joints are already breaking down from the running. i really dont want to get down too far in weight as i still lift, play ice hockey against 18yr olds and i want to fill out my uniform and still have a size and strength advantage over someone who wants to hurt me or u! (police officer)...

but i guess i have no choice but to register as an a/g and take my place at the base of the podium cheering my fellow division competitors at 5'8 155. sad...if anything i was hoping to see more masters clyde divisions at races. tuff enuf in the clydes w/o the juiced up 20 yr olds. and i would like to see pre race weigh ins as the standard for usat sanctioned races.

k thats all i got for now...whew...i feel better all ready! im gonna be a nasty cop trying to lose 20lbs for next season! lol!

 

 

2012-10-18 11:48 AM
in reply to: #4217593

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

Gotta disagree on the body fat % suggestion.  While many may see the Clydes as the "fat guy" division, I've seen quite a few Clydes that are simply big (tall, fit, with muscles).  In the races I've done, the guys that place in Clydes tend to be these guys, many of them looking like they could play tight end if they weren't out doing tris.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, I hope we continue to have a competitive division under the new weight limits, but that remains to be seen. 

Also, if there's a concern that women aren't signing up for the Athena division because they don't want to own up to their weights, would changing to a body fat % criterion make that better?  Seems like it could actually go the other way. 

2012-11-04 11:45 AM
in reply to: #4139393

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Delaware, OH
Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
Maybe women aren't signing up for the Athena division because they don't know it exists?  Not all race directors will explain what each category is on their websites.
2012-11-09 11:51 AM
in reply to: #4139393

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

I'm under the opinion that all catigiries need weight first- I would much rather run against a 25 year old at 230,my weight, than a 50 year old at 160.

under 40

120-140

140-160

160-180

180-200

220-240

240-260>

over 40

the same

2012-11-09 12:55 PM
in reply to: #4139393

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

WEIGHT !

Energy (power) is work over time. Work is moving  weight x distance. Endurance is the ability to produce energy to move the weight over a period of time. Performance is how fast you do this effort in a given time.

Age reduces our ability to perform 

Weight reduces our ability to perform more thean age.

% body fat for 150 lb persom could be more than % body fat for 230 lb person. Still It is highly unlikely the 230 person will outperform 150 person. While 150 lb person at 50 will probably beat a 230 lb. man at 25.



Edited by lap4567@aol.com 2012-11-09 1:00 PM


2012-11-13 5:54 AM
in reply to: #4139393


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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
At 6'6" I fall into the tall category. I love the new rule. I typically do well in the swim and bike portions only to get destroyed on the run. My goal is NOT to win but stay in shape and have fun and its more fun when you do well. Im very happy with finishing in the top1/3 of my group. I think that this levels the playing field. I stand NO chance against the 25 year old 190lb cheater who wants to justify spending $ on gear and a coach by winning. 
2012-11-15 10:30 AM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

The new rule will create a much smaller group; the guys I race against who will remain in the clydes are already bemoaning the fact that they will no longer race against me and a few others. I am 45, 206-207 pounds and 5 foot 10 - and the age group is just brutal.

I will absolutely miss racing against my fellow clydes in the NCS IOS series and local to Charlotte races; it was a great crew and I enjoyed the competiton. But no way do I add the pounds as my joints would scream.

So I expect the rule will get modified on 2014, as the categories get murdered in 2013 in most races. 

I agree on the weigh-in rule and was weighed in several times last year which never bothered me (took it as a compliment that I looked like I weighed less than 200). 

2012-11-15 5:09 PM
in reply to: #4499272

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

Chicago Triathlon still going to have there usual weight groups.

Men 200-224 lbs
Men 225-249 lbs
Men 250+ lbs

 

2012-11-16 2:16 PM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

OK, why is the bolded part confusing to me?  Straight off the USAT website in the regulations section:

b. Weight Class Division. In events where a weight class division is offered, the minimum weight shall be 220 pounds for men and 165 pounds for women, monitored by the event organizer. The weight class age categories for men and women shall be 39 years of age and under and 40 years of age and over. Participants are not eligible to compete in a weight class division and in an age group division at the same event.

Does it mean they will have 2 age groups of 'us': 39 and under Clydes/Athenas and 40 and older Clydes/Athenas?

2012-11-16 3:09 PM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

Changing the weights does not change the arbitrary nature of the concept.  What exactly is a Clyde/Athena division for?  Is a 5'5" 205# (overweight) Clyde racing against a 6'2" 205# (physically fit) Clyde the objective?  If so, to what end?

I think what makes more sense, if weight is to be the determinant, is to stagger it by hieght.  Just an idea without any science behind it.

Male 6'0" 200# is where you start.  Add or subract 5# for every inch above or below.  It may be too compliacted but adjusting the starting weight for a 6' male to the right number and adjusting the variance per inch based on something more scientific could give you a better result. 

Or I am just crazy and that would be the first time today I was accused of that!



2012-11-16 4:41 PM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
Stuartap - 2012-11-16 2:09 PM

Changing the weights does not change the arbitrary nature of the concept.  What exactly is a Clyde/Athena division for?  Is a 5'5" 205# (overweight) Clyde racing against a 6'2" 205# (physically fit) Clyde the objective?  If so, to what end?

I think what makes more sense, if weight is to be the determinant, is to stagger it by hieght.  Just an idea without any science behind it.

Male 6'0" 200# is where you start.  Add or subract 5# for every inch above or below.  It may be too compliacted but adjusting the starting weight for a 6' male to the right number and adjusting the variance per inch based on something more scientific could give you a better result. 

Or I am just crazy and that would be the first time today I was accused of that!

Yeah, your crazy, but it is a interesting concept (using it I would still be a clyde in 2013 at least at today's weight, but wouldn't be once I got down to my normal racing weight)

2012-12-04 4:27 PM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

At some of the local races I go to one of the consistent winners in the Clydesdale division is also one of the fastest guys out there.  He is also consistently in the top 3 overall when you look at his times.

He is just a big guy, but he is ripped, no fat hanging on his frame at all.

The first race I went to, I took 3rd in the Clydesdale division.... Guess what there were only 3 entries, so there aren't very many local to me. 

In my opinion if you are capable of being the second overall finisher, you should run in the age group category not the Athena or Clydesdale divisions.

2012-12-12 4:24 PM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
ckb_nc - 2012-11-15 11:30 AM

The new rule will create a much smaller group; the guys I race against who will remain in the clydes are already bemoaning the fact that they will no longer race against me and a few others. I am 45, 206-207 pounds and 5 foot 10 - and the age group is just brutal.

I will absolutely miss racing against my fellow clydes in the NCS IOS series and local to Charlotte races; it was a great crew and I enjoyed the competiton. But no way do I add the pounds as my joints would scream.

So I expect the rule will get modified on 2014, as the categories get murdered in 2013 in most races. 

I agree on the weigh-in rule and was weighed in several times last year which never bothered me (took it as a compliment that I looked like I weighed less than 200). 



Maybe the idea is to kill it. If so few people race due to the new limits, perhaps this is just an interim step to eliminating it all together.
2012-12-13 3:14 AM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
melbo55 - 2012-11-16 2:16 PM

OK, why is the bolded part confusing to me?  Straight off the USAT website in the regulations section:

b. Weight Class Division. In events where a weight class division is offered, the minimum weight shall be 220 pounds for men and 165 pounds for women, monitored by the event organizer. The weight class age categories for men and women shall be 39 years of age and under and 40 years of age and over. Participants are not eligible to compete in a weight class division and in an age group division at the same event.

Does it mean they will have 2 age groups of 'us': 39 and under Clydes/Athenas and 40 and older Clydes/Athenas?

That's refelective of the 5150 event we did this year.  While they didn't explain it at registration, Clydesdale awards were broken up by the two age groups.

 

2012-12-14 1:37 PM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
rfm1237 - 2012-12-12 4:24 PM
ckb_nc - 2012-11-15 11:30 AM

The new rule will create a much smaller group; the guys I race against who will remain in the clydes are already bemoaning the fact that they will no longer race against me and a few others. I am 45, 206-207 pounds and 5 foot 10 - and the age group is just brutal.

I will absolutely miss racing against my fellow clydes in the NCS IOS series and local to Charlotte races; it was a great crew and I enjoyed the competiton. But no way do I add the pounds as my joints would scream.

So I expect the rule will get modified on 2014, as the categories get murdered in 2013 in most races. 

I agree on the weigh-in rule and was weighed in several times last year which never bothered me (took it as a compliment that I looked like I weighed less than 200). 

Maybe the idea is to kill it. If so few people race due to the new limits, perhaps this is just an interim step to eliminating it all together.

 

It would be interesting if they just do away with these - flies in the face of the analysis on speed to size. Who knows at this.

 

Clyde for 17 more days



2012-12-14 3:02 PM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
Crap so i kept all this weight
2012-12-15 8:43 AM
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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
I just signed up for the Benton Harbor MI 70.3 and I was not offered the option to be in the Clydesdale category. It is no longer an option in the Ironman distance either.
2012-12-15 10:52 AM
in reply to: #4536246

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013

johnmclaughlin - 2012-12-15 8:43 AM I just signed up for the Benton Harbor MI 70.3 and I was not offered the option to be in the Clydesdale category. It is no longer an option in the Ironman distance either.

I could be wrong but I don't know if it was ever an option in Ironman races. I know it hasn't been for the 4 years I've been racing.

There are 70.3s where it is an option but not Ironman branded.

Surprisingly in our local races there are generally 100 or so Clydes split into under and over 40.  For women it is closer to 15.

2013-01-04 2:06 PM
in reply to: #4536304

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Subject: RE: New weight rules for Athena & Clydesdale in 2013
KeriKadi - 2012-12-15 8:52 AM

johnmclaughlin - 2012-12-15 8:43 AM I just signed up for the Benton Harbor MI 70.3 and I was not offered the option to be in the Clydesdale category. It is no longer an option in the Ironman distance either.

I could be wrong but I don't know if it was ever an option in Ironman races. I know it hasn't been for the 4 years I've been racing.

There are 70.3s where it is an option but not Ironman branded.

Surprisingly in our local races there are generally 100 or so Clydes split into under and over 40.  For women it is closer to 15.

Used to be an option (2007 ish) but no Kona spots, and it was stopped shortly after that

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