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2013-02-25 6:44 AM

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Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: The Money Pit

BIG OLD VENT COMING UP:

About 2 months ago the Mrs and I found a house we loved on 6-1/2 acres near town (hard to find down here in FL).  The house was built in 1981 but was decorated like 1965 (elderly couple had lived there).  Wood paneling, wallpaper, horrible stone fireplace etc... 

Be got it for a good enough price knowing we'd have to sink near $100k (from the sale of our current home) into it to get it to what we wanted.  But even at that we'd still be in good shape.

So current house is under contract, heading towards closing, all look good on that front...

The "new" house, not so much.  In the last 2 months I have:

1.  Had to replumb the entire house, copper was on the edge of letting go.

2.  Had to replace the water softener/carbon filtration system (we're on well water) that the inspector said "was perfect".  It wasn't.

3.  Will have to replace every single window in the house.  We knew they were not perfect but thought they could last another few years till round 2.  They have been leaking for a while now. Which leads us to...

4.  Every 2x4 that frames in every window is rotted and had (not active) termites.  So now we're talking major carpentry.... plus...

5.  Some signs of mold/mildew behind most of the downstairs walls.  Which means ripping out ALL the exterior drywall and insulation and spraying it all down.

In jest I told my contractor it might be easier to bulldoze it and rebuild.  He turned me me and said "If you're open to that we can discuss it..."

At this point the wife just turns, busts into tears and walks away.

So I'm now probably $50k into my $100k budget and have not done a single thing to "improve" the home.  Only fixing things that we did not know were broken.

I wish I could blame it on the home inspector (it found a lot of little things we knew about) but without tearing down walls you can't see some of these hidden things.  I scrutinize things pretty close and not even I saw half of these issues. 

Positive vibes would be appreciated.  And any advice on how to deal with a money pit?

 

(on the bright side we negotiated living in our old home till the end of May, giving us SOME time to get the new place livable...)

 

ETA: We're waiting any moment to hear that the house was build on an old Indian burial plot...



2013-02-25 7:09 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Veteran
976
500100100100100252525
New Hampshire
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

That's tough, sorry to hear all that.  I do a lot of utility work and you can never tell what is in a wall until either it comes down or you start poking holes, and sadly until you own it it's hard to do that.  You said that the house wasn't in bad shape, just outdated, so is the decor something you can live with for now?  If you've taken the exterior walls down at least you can paint it something more updated which can do a lot for the space.  Also, a tough line to walk, but if depending on how you're paying the contractor you can attempt to negotiate some of his prices down.  They usually have a pretty rediculous markup on goods and labor, and you definitely don't want to him off, but a lot of the time you just have to keep them in check.  I deal with contractors here in Boston daily and I understand that everyone is out to make a profit but sometimes it gets out of hand.  Then there's always the option of leaving certain things (master bedroom typically because only YOU have to suck it up) until later and prioritize the rest of the projects within the house.  Best of luck to you though.

Edited:  PS, don't jinx the indian burial ground thing.  I had a 200,000 sf project that completed documents and they did a prelim excavation and found some Indian remains and the Mass Preservation something-or-other demanded that we dig 2' down over the entire 50,000 sf footprint and have Indiana Jones come in to make sure there wasn't anything substantial there.



Edited by jonD81 2013-02-25 7:12 AM
2013-02-25 7:39 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Master
2504
2000500
Southwest Iowa
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

It is much better to find out these things now before you are into the house, so the possible mold problems are already taken care of before you move in.  I have had to completely gut bathrooms because of the mold from leaking toilets, showers, sinks etc......  Tear the floor down to the floor joist and made sure those were not rotted.  It happens.

 

Just work your way through it all and make the money go where it must go now to get it fixed, and you may have to not do some things, until later down the road.  Built in 1981 doesn't mean good or bad, it all depends upon the builder and how quickly they threw it up compared to how correct they were with making things right.  I have seen houses ready to fall down that were built 20 years ago, because the person didn't have a clue on how to build things.

 

Good luck with the build and hope it all turns out for the best.

 

2013-02-25 7:45 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Elite
4564
200020005002525
Boise
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
Not as bad as yours but I bought my house and the inspectors report said the roof should be good for 5-10 years. 2 months later the drywall fell off the ceiling in the back bedroom because of water leaking through the roof. Instead of using the money I had saved up for updating, I ended up rebuilding the roof. It was flat on that end of the house and I built a small pitch into it so that now the water drains off instead of puddling.
2013-02-25 8:15 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Master
6834
5000100050010010010025
Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

Ouch, man that is one right after the other. I hope you can get everything worked through without too much hassle.  We did windows this year and the cost was a bit more than we were hoping for. But look around, there are a few options out there that may be a bit less than you think.

On the plus, 6.5 acres in this area is not easy to find.

2013-02-25 8:16 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Expert
1194
1000100252525
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
I just posted another thread asking about building vs buying and reading this is really tipping the scale to the building side!


2013-02-25 8:29 AM
in reply to: #4635701

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Veteran
976
500100100100100252525
New Hampshire
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

skipg - 2013-02-25 9:16 AM I just posted another thread asking about building vs buying and reading this is really tipping the scale to the building side!

Be careful on the building side too depending on where you are building.  I've had two friends who had bad experiences, both in different parts of the country which shows that the problems weren't specifically the contractor or the region.  One was a cookie cutter build.  He bought in a new development, customized things as he wanted, and they built.  The quality was just poor and my buddy doesn't know a lot about construction so I went by one day with him while they were building and just noticed quality things they were trying to skimp on like where the joints on the sheetrock were going to be, insulation quality on the walls and the piping, the HVAC system poor installation.  If you're not familiar with construction it really does pay to have someone walk it with you and do some punch lists before they close things up because once they put that last cover plate on the outlet they are out of there and it's hard to get things done once they are gone.

2013-02-25 9:55 AM
in reply to: #4635714

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Expert
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1000100252525
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
jonD81 - 2013-02-25 9:29 AM

skipg - 2013-02-25 9:16 AM I just posted another thread asking about building vs buying and reading this is really tipping the scale to the building side!

Be careful on the building side too depending on where you are building.  I've had two friends who had bad experiences, both in different parts of the country which shows that the problems weren't specifically the contractor or the region.  One was a cookie cutter build.  He bought in a new development, customized things as he wanted, and they built.  The quality was just poor and my buddy doesn't know a lot about construction so I went by one day with him while they were building and just noticed quality things they were trying to skimp on like where the joints on the sheetrock were going to be, insulation quality on the walls and the piping, the HVAC system poor installation.  If you're not familiar with construction it really does pay to have someone walk it with you and do some punch lists before they close things up because once they put that last cover plate on the outlet they are out of there and it's hard to get things done once they are gone.

yeah my first home I had built was by a cookie cutter builder and the quality sucked! We've toured/met with a few builders and already have one in mind. They do amazing work and have a long track record with happy home owners that we've met ...the downside of using a top quality builder is the obvious...they are more expensive, the upside though is getting a home that will be top notch and not just thrown together with low quality materials!

Edited by skipg 2013-02-25 9:59 AM
2013-02-25 11:12 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Master
2538
200050025
Albuquerque
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
I love that movie :D
2013-02-25 11:18 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: The Money Pit

Good luck with all of that. So far my wife and I have been pretty lucky with the 40 year old home we bought in fall of 2011. Had to replace all the windows, which we knew we were going to do when we bought it. repaired a few leaky faucets and am saving up to replace all the old plumbing pipe in it and have a water shut-off valve installed at the house (right now if we have a problem, the only place to shut off water is at the main street level water valve at the end of our long driveway.) So far the only thing we have found that we did not know about is the need to reinsulate some of the HVAC vents that run to the bedrooms and I need to redo all the gutter downspouts and drains.

This is the first house either my wife or I has ever owned and we are learning all sort of fun and entertainment from it, not to mention becoming more and more handy. It sounds like you have owned before and this new place is just a bigger adventure than you expected. My best advice? Increase your timeline for getting the improvement projects done and just focus on making it liveable. Do any work yourself that you can too.

2013-02-25 11:57 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Champion
7036
5000200025
Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

Wow.  Sorry to hear about your problems.

I'm on the board of Habitat for Humanity in Sarasota and we've been doing a lot of rehab projects over the last five or six years, including some abandoned foreclosures that we've bought back from banks and then rehabbed.

You never really know what you're getting into with rehab projects until you start opening things up.

One of the  biggest issues we run into is water intrusion in older homes and the resultant mold and rot.  Stuff just likes to grow in our climate down here.  You didn't mention the roof in your post.  How old is it and what kind of shape is it in?  Obviously that's the starting point to keep water out.  I'd be real suspicious if you have multiple layers of shingles.

It's unfortunate that you're having to open up walls, but have you considered doing some code updates while you're doing it.  Stuff like hurricane straps?  My house was built in '83 and we were able to reduce our insurance bill a few years ago by adding additional strapping to our roof trusses, including running cables from the trusses to the slab. 

Windows are expensive, but new ones will be more energy efficient and have high enough wind ratings to eliminate the need for hurricane shutters.  New windows can also reduce your insurance cost.

If you think you may be forced into moving in before all the work is done, then I suggest you focus on getting the kitchen done first, followed by the bathrooms.  That will help to at least make the house livable while you finish the remaining rooms. 

I'd also have to say quite frankly that your home inspector should have picked up on most of the things that you've mentioned. 

Good luck to you. 

Mark   

 

 



2013-03-25 1:30 PM
in reply to: #4635571

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Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

An update...

After several visits with the termite company (who covered the house under warranty) and a few threats of a lawsuit, they have agreed to pay for the fixes.  Looks like they are going to have to pull ALL of the brick down and then replace all of the studs.  This means pullout out all the electrical, plumbing and windows.  Essentially I will have a 99% brand new first story.

Wow.  You have no idea how relieved I was to hear this.  Just waiting on the paperwork to kick it all off.

These pics really do not do justice how eaten thru many of the studs really are.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151834283995031.1073741825.500450030&type=1&l=8725577a9d

2013-03-25 1:35 PM
in reply to: #4635571

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Champion
16151
50005000500010001002525
Checkin' out the podium girls
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
Wow; that's serious termite damage. I did a bunch of rehab this winter in my 1/2 sunken basement with the same type of destruction. Fortunately, the walss were superficial and not load bearing in my case. Yours is far more consequential.

Good luck getting rebuilt.
2013-03-25 1:46 PM
in reply to: #4635571

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Champion
8766
5000200010005001001002525
Evergreen, Colorado
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
Always worth having a termite bond if you are in a termite prone area...it's a few hundred bucks a year for a whole lot of insurance...
2013-03-25 2:38 PM
in reply to: #4673643

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Champion
34263
500050005000500050005000200020001001002525
Chicago
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
TriRSquared - 2013-03-25 1:30 PM

An update...

After several visits with the termite company (who covered the house under warranty) and a few threats of a lawsuit, they have agreed to pay for the fixes.  Looks like they are going to have to pull ALL of the brick down and then replace all of the studs.  This means pullout out all the electrical, plumbing and windows.  Essentially I will have a 99% brand new first story.

Wow.  You have no idea how relieved I was to hear this.  Just waiting on the paperwork to kick it all off.

These pics really do not do justice how eaten thru many of the studs really are.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151834283995031.1073741825.500450030&type=1&l=8725577a9d



Holy crapola that's insane termite damage! Glad to hear they are going to pay for it. Sounds like your inspector needs a sternly worded letter, as well.
2013-03-25 2:44 PM
in reply to: #4635571

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Veteran
458
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
Glad it's working out and from the lovely view of the land, it look like it'll be worth it in the end  Best!


2013-03-25 2:59 PM
in reply to: #4635571

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Champion
7036
5000200025
Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

Termites are nasty little critters.  Glad you got things worked out.

Mark

2013-03-25 5:52 PM
in reply to: #4673681

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Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

jldicarlo - 2013-03-25 2:46 PM Always worth having a termite bond if you are in a termite prone area...it's a few hundred bucks a year for a whole lot of insurance...

Yes we have always had a termite warranty.  Well worth the money.  $300 a year in trade for what is probably close to $100k worth of repairs.

2013-03-25 5:52 PM
in reply to: #4673681

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Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

jldicarlo - 2013-03-25 2:46 PM Always worth having a termite bond if you are in a termite prone area...it's a few hundred bucks a year for a whole lot of insurance...

Yes we have always had a termite warranty.  Well worth the money.  $300 a year in trade for what is probably close to $100k worth of repairs.

2013-03-25 7:30 PM
in reply to: #4674145

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Subject: RE: The Money Pit
I was thinking about this the other day, glad to hear you have gotten some relief and able to move it forward without a lot of extra outlay.
2013-03-26 10:59 AM
in reply to: #4635571

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Expert
3126
2000100010025
Boise, ID
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

 

Hey on the bright side at least it will be done in two weeks!

 

And remember it is two pats on the butt to get the water to flow and be very careful when using the stairs or the bath tub!



2013-03-26 12:20 PM
in reply to: #4674925

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Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
Aarondb4 - 2013-03-26 11:59 AM

Hey on the bright side at least it will be done in two weeks!

And remember it is two pats on the butt to get the water to flow and be very careful when using the stairs or the bath tub!

We keep quoting that part of the movie.  TWO WEEKS!

2013-03-26 12:57 PM
in reply to: #4675102

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Expert
3126
2000100010025
Boise, ID
Subject: RE: The Money Pit
TriRSquared - 2013-03-26 11:20 AM
Aarondb4 - 2013-03-26 11:59 AM

Hey on the bright side at least it will be done in two weeks!

And remember it is two pats on the butt to get the water to flow and be very careful when using the stairs or the bath tub!

We keep quoting that part of the movie.  TWO WEEKS!

"You sound like a parakeet, two weeks, two weeks!"

2013-04-29 6:35 PM
in reply to: #4635571

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Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

So 2 months (not 2 weeks) after my initial post the termite company has finally gotten their act together and they started work on the house.  We'll have to move into a condo fro 2 months while they do the work as my current house has sold.

I'll post a few pics later.  They are quite scary...

2013-04-30 12:35 PM
in reply to: #4635571

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Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: The Money Pit

So this WAS our kitchen...

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