any religious people coming to terms with new found atheism? (Page 3)

Hope the OP doesn't mind me answering questions, but since you asked:

I have 2 kids. If I wanted something that followed my every command, I could've made a robot kid or a puppet. Instead, I want to see my kids succeed at some things, fail at others but then get back up and succeed. I think I love them most when they make mistakes, then come and tell me they made the mistake and that they are sorry for doing so. Why do I feel that way? I believe it's because we are created in the image of God. God made us to be free creatures and he loves the good and bad just like (more actually) than my wife loves the good and bad unconditionally in our kids. You're essentially asking why we take the training wheels off of bikes if we know it'll put our kids at risk of falling. It's so we can rejoice when they round the corner without falling or when they fall and get up and back on the move before you can reach them.

Newtown was a man doing something to 20 children and 6 adults. Meanwhile, there's less uproar about the 1.2 million unborn innocents killed for convenience each year. There's a passage that is debated hotly, Jeremiah 32:35 where God (speaking through the prophet Jeremiah) describes the sacrifice of infants by burning them and says that he never commanded it, nor did he ever have the thought occur to him that they'd do such a thing. So it is possible for man to do some really terrible stuff even to the most innocent. It is not the will of God, but the will of men at that point.

Edited by GomesBolt 2013-03-03 2:42 PM

But it is also hard for people to maintain a behavior just "because". Perhaps, if we take it a step further, God is nothing more than a "gene" adapted through evolution as a coping mechanism for a social animal such as our selves. That while this planet has many different cultures of people, they are all the same in that the majority believe in "something". And that "something" is hard wired into us to be who we are and get us to where we are at. As with anything evolutionary, there are variables and those that do not believe. Usually an opposite strategy of everyone else becomes a viable survival strategy none the less. Hunters and scavengers.

Perhaps atheists are just a gene short of a happy meal.

He's definitely not saying you have to follow to the letter what our church says or you go to hell. In fact, we believe that only Jesus was able to live up to the letter of what the church says.

We believe that we're all sinners and that only by Jesus crawling onto the cross and willingly dying as a sacrifice have our sins been redeemed.

Christianity is the only religion predicted through the prophecies of another established religion. Jesus fulfilled over 400 prophecies from the Judaic Scriptures (born in Bethlehem, nailed to a tree, spoke in parables, etc.).

So we believe the only thing you have to do is choose to accept the forgiveness that Christ bought for us with his blood and after you die, you will be in heaven (480 mentions in the bible) and not hell (90 mentions in the bible).

And if you wanna know why I keep replying to atheists... See the below video with Penn Jillete from Penn and Teller.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdvES4_MJ5Y&sns=em

Your numbers sound big to us, but in the cosmos... there are really big numbers to play with. While we may indeed be a small chance happening... with a bazillion to the bazillionth power chances out there possible... it starts to get probable.

I'm a rebel without a clue... but it has never ever made sense to me the need to perpetuate the idea that God is some puppet master playing the strings of every single person on Earth. I can't tell you how I hate hearing ... "there's a plan". No, there isn't. That would mean I do not have free will, which I do... given to me by God himself, if that's what you believe. God himself has the power to do what ever he wants to me, but he gave me the choice... but somehow kids dying of cancer or brutally murdered is some sort of plan and other idiots get long lives. I don't buy it... but that does not mean their is no God... I just don't think he is a puppet master.

I don't get it because nowhere in society is that mimicked... everyone knows you can't make somebody do something they do not want to do. You can give them an example, and allow them to make a choice, that's it. Your analogy is how I have thought about it... I have done many things my parents did not approve of, but they love just the same, and hope for the best. That is easy to recognize in society.

(mod: post not ok.)

Stars in the visible universe = 30 billion trillion  (3x10²²

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2012/05/astronomers-predict-90-of-distant-galaxies-in-universe-unseen-.html

To be clear, no one knows what that number is.

I am comfortable it being a coincidence.  That I am here in the way I am is an incredible coincindence.  That something is here and able to observe the universe in the way we do is a far far lesser coincidence. 

Perhaps coincidence is not the right word.  I prefer to think our existence as being inevitable. 

God's not a puppet master, but he does know all the hairs of your head according to Jesus in Luke 12:7 and Matthew 10:30. I do believe he knows your path and responds to prayer where it fits in his overall plan. Like a mom at the grocery store choosing whether to give her kid the lollipop.

I enjoy these threads about religion.  I think I'm a kind of "religion voyeur."  I hear some cool things about each faith...I'm kinda like, "Cool, cool, not so cool, cool, WHOA! that's a deal-breaker," then I move on to look at the next one.

The coolest religions, in my opinion, are the ones that don't profess to know the answers...especially high on my list are the ones that are least likely to describe another faith's beliefs as "wrong."

I do have to admit, probably because of a Catholic upbringing, that when my agnostic mind swings between an existence of a God, and the non-existence of such a being, I do at times find comfort in the thought there is a God.  Is it peer pressure?  A natural instinct to believe in such a thing?  Nurture?  Or, the fact that when you just "believe," it's like the comfort you feel on cruise control...ya know?  Less worries?  

To answer BigDH's question about "getting through it..." I don't think anyone ever "gets through it."  You sound like an open-minded and thoughtful person.  Either way you swing on the "belief spectrum," you'll likely never be 100% sold on either extreme.  My suggestion, follow your heart and you'll likely find yourself swinging in some awesome middle ground.  Good luck man!

I hear what you are saying.. I've explored those types of religions.. My personal experience with them though.. is that they lack passion. They are kind of.. meh.

My personal feelings is that, what is the point of religion if it doesn't ignite something inside of you? 

Interesting, not sure where you're located, but have you explored Buddhism?  I always hesitate to refer to Buddhism as a religion per se, as its tenets seem more on the philosophical side.  As far as I know, other than the recent self-immolations, it's experienced centuries of nonviolence (someone can feel free to point out my mistake)  and, most lamas I've heard speak will go to lengths not to criticize any other tradition and encourage one to remain in one's own tradition if your faith is strong.  The Tibetan Mahayana center I belong leaves my head spinning it's so full of mind numbing philosophical topics on which to meditate.  This, of course, requires more than cursorily attending a Sunday talk, but jumping in and meeting with groups, classes, etc.

If you can maintain a sense of both connections to others and to the future, there is no doing things "just because". You do them because they make the future possible, or make it the better possible future. I could choose to sit on the couch and eat chips and ice cream. But then future me would be fat and sluggish. I could choose to sleep with hookers, but then future me would not get to stay married to mrs gearboy. One of the things I like about buddhism is that you can strip away all the various rituals associated with specific schools, and just look at the thinking about interconnectedness and happiness, and see a way to make good choices. At it's best, Judaism has similar thread of philosophic approaches to the world (starting with the idea that world is a "broken place", and out purpose in life is to try to leave it better than we found it). And there are similar threads in the best of Catholic scholarship (having gone to a Catholic university, I am more familiar with those writings). Like Jefferson, I could see following a model that takes out all the "miracles" and just looks at how to treat people decently. 

Those consequences are immediate though... not as in instantly... but in your near future... worrying about consequences after you die 40 years from now I do not think comes as easy. And of course we both know some have a hard time with immediate consequences... well I did at least.

I can accept that. I think it is just pieces to the puzzle and not necessarily the one thing. Perhaps that is what you are talking about too and I'm just taking it wrong on the screen. I think I'm a little weird in that I do not have kids. I think about "the future", but there is none. Those with kids probably are much more concerned about what they leave their offspring. So then this would all naturally tie into "doing the right thing" for the future. Family, community, village, country.... all cultures naturally think the same and religion is a common thread between them all.

I do think though too it is only natural that some of this stuff is born into us just being social animals. It does not have to be a "gene"... We are geared to eat and procreate, and so it is not hard to see we are geared to be social and connected.

I got close to Jesus today. I got so close that I ate him, just as he commanded in John 6.

Actually, for the first time in my life, I dropped him.

We were at a parish in NW Pennsylvania. I'd never been there before. We were in the area picking out a new springer spaniel hunting dog from a nearby kennel .

I usually receive Jesus on my tongue when I eat him.  For whatever reason, either my tongue wasn't out far enough or the priest didn't put him in far enough, he fell out.  With lightening reflex I went to catch him, but somehow Father beat me to it. Then he put Jesus back into my mouth.

I was fed, once again.  Food unlike any other.

The final hymn at mass was "I heard the voice of Jesus say".  All weekend I had been fully carefree and happy. Suddenly on hearing that hymn, I wept. My 7yo looked up to see if I was alright.  I smiled at him that all was OK. I think he gets it. 

I heard the voice of Jesus say,
"Come unto me and rest;
lay down, thou weary one, lay down
thy head upon my breast."
I came to Jesus as I was,
so weary, worn, and sad;
I found in him a resting place, 
and he has made me glad.

I heard the voice of Jesus say,
"Behold, I freely give
the living water; thirsty one,
stoop down and drink, and live."
I came to Jesus, and I drank
of that life-giving stream;
my thirst was quenched, my soul revived,
and now I live in him.

The bible refers to us many times as God's children.  We have free will.  Think of this like your own children if you have any (or in general terms if you don't).  When your child is born, will you force him to love you?  Or will you hope that with your love and guidance he will love you back?  If he doesn't show you love, respect, obedience for rules in place because you care for him, will you try to force him or control him into loving you?

God wants us to love him and be faithful to him of our own will, not because he's controlling us.  When bad things like Sandy Hook happen, God mourns with us.  He mourns the decision of His child to not follow Him.

That sounds very cool. My husband (a very strong born again believer) would prolly have a full on heart attack if I went to center like that.. Which kind of makes me sad ;( I am a secretive studier and practicer of "mindfulness, which is as close to that religion that I will ever be able to get..

Personally, I cannot talk about God and heaven the way I might say "the sky is blue" to other people. 

One can have hope about the eternal. But like your lamas, i have to respect the beliefs of others. I refuse to state to them that they are "wrong".  

Nice explanation, thanks for that.

I get emotional in church all the time. Love that song. My favorite song from church was always You Are Near.

As someone once told me, even if the probability of a singularity expanding to form the current universe is .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001, if it is sitting there for an infinite time period, it is likely to happen at some point.

We may be talking about the same thing when we talk about future - but at different scales of time. And I agree, some people are better at taking a long view (e.g., I did not party or socialize a lot in my 20's, because I was thinking about getting into med school, succeeding in med school, getting into residency, etc. Clearly to go into medicine requires a lot of capacity for delayed gratification ) And some people need to have it hit into their heads over time (I have a friend who will not drink whisky anymore because he realized when he did, he became homicidal. He has no trouble with beer or rum-based drinks, though). If a person does not feel the connection at some level, wether emotional or cognitively, they will make poor choices for themselves and for society. 

Working as I do with adolescents, especially those with impulse control problems, I often try to get them to think about "future you". In some cases, "future you" is not that far in the future. I can skip my homework today and play videogames. But future me tomorrow will hate present me for getting him in trouble for not turning in the homework. If you can extend the sense of future you far enough, you can generally make good choices. Especially if you can also imagine that other perspectives are sometimes valuable.

Over the years I've moved away from organized religion and moved to a much more personal and private set of beliefs.  I feel organized religion has become corrupted by the same things that corrupt any large organization, company or government.

It bothers me when organized religions cannot answer some of my most basic questions yet continue to tell me that their set of rules are the "infallible word of God".

I've kind of taken my own sets of beliefs from both religion and science and melded them into something that I can understand.