Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller Reply
Show Per page
 
 
of 17
 
 
2013-04-07 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4690261

Master
2009
2000
Charlotte, NC
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
Left Brain - 2013-04-07 3:56 PM

tricrazy - 2013-04-07 7:23 AM So, do you also believe a victim who does not report it was not really raped also?

It's apples and oranges.  A victim has to be offended in order for that pnch to be criminal.....that's an element of the crime...so yeah, we need to know that in regard to what Sagan did.

That's not the case in a rape....a rape just has to be "without consent".....you really can't equate the two in the criminal sense.

Rape is alwas rape no matter if it was reported or not....not the case with the pinch.

I will tell you this.....a rape that is not  reported, or that the victim has no intention of reporting even if someone else knows about it, will NEVER be prosecuted. 

But don't worry all, YOU can still be offended in both cases so the outrage may continue.  Cool

And I think putting your hands on a woman uninvited is always wrong, regardless of whether she says something or not.  

I am also not trying to equate rape and a pinch, it was the first example I could think of where women often do not speak out.  Battered women often think they deserve to be hit so they do not complain either, it is still wrong.  While the original situation is not equal to these examples, they do illustrate that a complaining victim is not necessary for something to be wrong.



2013-04-07 4:42 PM
in reply to: #4684426

User image

Pro
15426
50005000500010010010010025
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
We don't disagree about any of what you said....you asked a question, I gave you my experience in dealing with it from a criminal perspective.....I bet I've been to over 1000 family disturbances....if you want to talk about battered women that could last awhile.....but lots of people will get offended for a variety of reasons...it could really be fun.
2013-04-07 6:46 PM
in reply to: #4690305

User image

Elite
6387
50001000100100100252525
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
tricrazy - 2013-04-07 3:17 PM
Left Brain - 2013-04-07 3:56 PM

tricrazy - 2013-04-07 7:23 AM So, do you also believe a victim who does not report it was not really raped also?

It's apples and oranges.  A victim has to be offended in order for that pnch to be criminal.....that's an element of the crime...so yeah, we need to know that in regard to what Sagan did.

That's not the case in a rape....a rape just has to be "without consent".....you really can't equate the two in the criminal sense.

Rape is alwas rape no matter if it was reported or not....not the case with the pinch.

I will tell you this.....a rape that is not  reported, or that the victim has no intention of reporting even if someone else knows about it, will NEVER be prosecuted. 

But don't worry all, YOU can still be offended in both cases so the outrage may continue.  Cool

And I think putting your hands on a woman uninvited is always wrong, regardless of whether she says something or not.  

I am also not trying to equate rape and a pinch, it was the first example I could think of where women often do not speak out.  Battered women often think they deserve to be hit so they do not complain either, it is still wrong.  While the original situation is not equal to these examples, they do illustrate that a complaining victim is not necessary for something to be wrong.

And I agree with you. I would never do that, even for a laugh. There are all sorts of "wrongs". I do not think anyone in this thread will disagree that the action taken is "risky". You could get slapped. Her husband/sig. other could kick your arse. You could have a sponsor drop you... and the up side is you get a photo, a laugh from someone around the globe that you don't even know... not much upside.

But there is a whole spectrum of misbehavior and consequences, all the way from getting slapped, to getting locked up. There are social faux pas, crude language, boorish behavior, all of which have social consequences. Sexual harassment in the work place could cost you your job... but even in that case, the victim must tell you it was not welcome and never do it again....But to take a action on one end of the spectrum, and then say it belongs on the other end of the spectrum... in fact criminal deserving of prosecution and loss of liberty... well that is just being pretty silly. That just defis logic. Nothing he did, requires imprisonment and registration on a sex offender list. Nothing.

And not that you are saying that is what should happen... but for this discussion to equate what happened to women getting beat and raped... is an insult to women that get beat and raped. A slap does equal 1st degree attempted murder, a pinch does not equal rape.... or criminal action if that is what you want to call it. If that is indeed a criminal violation... well then the law needs to be changed.

2013-04-08 1:31 PM
in reply to: #4684426


1

Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch

The girl didn't like it,she has already said it,but nobody cares in cycling world.


http://road.cc/content/news/80012-podium-girl-maja-leye-says-she-fought-keep-calm-peter-sagan-pinched-her-behind
in French:
http://www.7sur7.be/7s7/fr/9099/Hors-jeu/article/detail/1607284/2013/04/02/Maja-n-a-pas-apprecie-les-avances-de-Sagan.dhtml

2013-04-08 1:45 PM
in reply to: #4691744

User image

Extreme Veteran
2261
20001001002525
Ridgeland, Mississippi
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
belenk - 2013-04-08 1:31 PM

The girl didn't like it,she has already said it,but nobody cares in cycling world.


http://road.cc/content/news/80012-podium-girl-maja-leye-says-she-fought-keep-calm-peter-sagan-pinched-her-behind
in French:
http://www.7sur7.be/7s7/fr/9099/Hors-jeu/article/detail/1607284/2013/04/02/Maja-n-a-pas-apprecie-les-avances-de-Sagan.dhtml

Great find!

That puts to rest the "she didn't complain" defense.  Also:

"The incident has prompted a debate in Belgium and elsewhere about the role of podium girls, with some going so far as to say that behaviour of the type Sagan displayed was understood by the women involved to be simply a case of high jinks that are part and parcel of their role; Leye's comments suggest very strongly that isn't the case."

There goes the "they ask for it" defense.

 

 

2013-04-08 4:28 PM
in reply to: #4691775

User image

Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
msteiner - 2013-04-08 2:45 PM
belenk - 2013-04-08 1:31 PM

The girl didn't like it,she has already said it,but nobody cares in cycling world.


http://road.cc/content/news/80012-podium-girl-maja-leye-says-she-fought-keep-calm-peter-sagan-pinched-her-behind
in French:
http://www.7sur7.be/7s7/fr/9099/Hors-jeu/article/detail/1607284/2013/04/02/Maja-n-a-pas-apprecie-les-avances-de-Sagan.dhtml

Great find!

That puts to rest the "she didn't complain" defense.  Also:

"The incident has prompted a debate in Belgium and elsewhere about the role of podium girls, with some going so far as to say that behaviour of the type Sagan displayed was understood by the women involved to be simply a case of high jinks that are part and parcel of their role; Leye's comments suggest very strongly that isn't the case."

There goes the "they ask for it" defense.



I don't think anyone said, "They asked for it".  It was a question as to if it was criminal or not.  The only way she would have asked for it would be if she literally asked for him to pinch her butt.


2013-04-09 6:03 PM
in reply to: #4692069

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch

Saw this today on my twitter news feed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/passenger-accused-groping-spirit-airlines-flight-attendant-1C9282626

Apparently the police and FBI don't think groping is a joke or something to laugh at.  I assume he meant no harm either being married with kids.  Just a flirtatious joke.  The flight attendant was doing her job and ignored it and tried to handle it professionally.

"Castle is accused of abusive sexual contact on an aircraft. If convicted, he faces up to two years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000. He is next due in court on May 6 for a preliminary hearing."

2013-04-09 6:11 PM
in reply to: #4693918

User image

Elite
6387
50001000100100100252525
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
Kido - 2013-04-09 5:03 PM

Saw this today on my twitter news feed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/passenger-accused-groping-spirit-airlines-flight-attendant-1C9282626

Apparently the police and FBI don't think groping is a joke or something to laugh at.  I assume he meant no harm either being married with kids.  Just a flirtatious joke.  The flight attendant was doing her job and ignored it and tried to handle it professionally.

"Castle is accused of abusive sexual contact on an aircraft. If convicted, he faces up to two years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000. He is next due in court on May 6 for a preliminary hearing."

Did you read the story.... he was drunk and abusive. He was on a flight that brings with it special circumstances and federal actions... you know, the whole 911 thing. He continued his actions after being repeatedly told to stop. He didn't just "pinch her butt".

2013-04-09 6:26 PM
in reply to: #4693928

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
powerman - 2013-04-09 4:11 PM
Kido - 2013-04-09 5:03 PM

Saw this today on my twitter news feed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/passenger-accused-groping-spirit-airlines-flight-attendant-1C9282626

Apparently the police and FBI don't think groping is a joke or something to laugh at.  I assume he meant no harm either being married with kids.  Just a flirtatious joke.  The flight attendant was doing her job and ignored it and tried to handle it professionally.

"Castle is accused of abusive sexual contact on an aircraft. If convicted, he faces up to two years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000. He is next due in court on May 6 for a preliminary hearing."

Did you read the story.... he was drunk and abusive. He was on a flight that brings with it special circumstances and federal actions... you know, the whole 911 thing. He continued his actions after being repeatedly told to stop. He didn't just "pinch her butt".

No, I just post a story without reading it.

What you say is part of it.  But he's getting CHARGED with abusive sexual contact.  Not drunk and disorderly, not creating a disturbance or endangerment.

Whatever, I get it.  It's just a pinch... just don't do it on a plane or say something sexual while doing it or have beer in your hand.

2013-04-09 6:40 PM
in reply to: #4693943

User image

Elite
6387
50001000100100100252525
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
Kido - 2013-04-09 5:26 PM
powerman - 2013-04-09 4:11 PM
Kido - 2013-04-09 5:03 PM

Saw this today on my twitter news feed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/passenger-accused-groping-spirit-airlines-flight-attendant-1C9282626

Apparently the police and FBI don't think groping is a joke or something to laugh at.  I assume he meant no harm either being married with kids.  Just a flirtatious joke.  The flight attendant was doing her job and ignored it and tried to handle it professionally.

"Castle is accused of abusive sexual contact on an aircraft. If convicted, he faces up to two years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000. He is next due in court on May 6 for a preliminary hearing."

Did you read the story.... he was drunk and abusive. He was on a flight that brings with it special circumstances and federal actions... you know, the whole 911 thing. He continued his actions after being repeatedly told to stop. He didn't just "pinch her butt".

No, I just post a story without reading it.

What you say is part of it.  But he's getting CHARGED with abusive sexual contact.  Not drunk and disorderly, not creating a disturbance or endangerment.

Whatever, I get it.  It's just a pinch... just don't do it on a plane or say something sexual while doing it or have beer in your hand.

perhaps you just skimmed.... Wink

When looking at criminal actions, repeated behavior matters. If say he told her she was ugly, he would be drunk and disorderly. If he then say pushed her, or grabbed her arm... that would be assault. If he is told to stop several times, is drunk and disorderly, and then contacts her on a "sexual" body part... ya, you get sexual charges.

Guess what, if Segan was drunk and disorderly, was making romantic advances to the model and repeatedly told to stop, and pinched her butt... he would be looking at the same charges.... they just might not be Federal.



Edited by powerman 2013-04-09 6:41 PM
2013-04-09 6:52 PM
in reply to: #4693953

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
powerman - 2013-04-09 4:40 PM
Kido - 2013-04-09 5:26 PM
powerman - 2013-04-09 4:11 PM
Kido - 2013-04-09 5:03 PM

Saw this today on my twitter news feed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/passenger-accused-groping-spirit-airlines-flight-attendant-1C9282626

Apparently the police and FBI don't think groping is a joke or something to laugh at.  I assume he meant no harm either being married with kids.  Just a flirtatious joke.  The flight attendant was doing her job and ignored it and tried to handle it professionally.

"Castle is accused of abusive sexual contact on an aircraft. If convicted, he faces up to two years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000. He is next due in court on May 6 for a preliminary hearing."

Did you read the story.... he was drunk and abusive. He was on a flight that brings with it special circumstances and federal actions... you know, the whole 911 thing. He continued his actions after being repeatedly told to stop. He didn't just "pinch her butt".

No, I just post a story without reading it.

What you say is part of it.  But he's getting CHARGED with abusive sexual contact.  Not drunk and disorderly, not creating a disturbance or endangerment.

Whatever, I get it.  It's just a pinch... just don't do it on a plane or say something sexual while doing it or have beer in your hand.

perhaps you just skimmed.... Wink

When looking at criminal actions, repeated behavior matters. If say he told her she was ugly, he would be drunk and disorderly. If he then say pushed her, or grabbed her arm... that would be assault. If he is told to stop several times, is drunk and disorderly, and then contacts her on a "sexual" body part... ya, you get sexual charges.

Guess what, if Segan was drunk and disorderly, was making romantic advances to the model and repeatedly told to stop, and pinched her butt... he would be looking at the same charges.... they just might not be Federal.

No, I see that.  I was even hesitant to posting it because of what happened - People/you thinking I'm making a direct comparison.  Sagan had the one "strike" against him with the contact and this guy?  Well, loaded up on them (no pun intended).

My intent wasn't to say they were the exact same thing.  More to the effect that touching people is not "just a chuckle" and the whole "it was not his intent" excuse don't fly.  This story proves that to some extent, IMO. 

Would he be looking at the same sentence if he DIDN'T also grab her butt?  I don't know.  Surely wouldn't be charging him with sexual contact if he didn't (something else of course).  But based on the charges, it seemed to play an important contributing factor.

Man, people for Colorado?  Bad news....  Oh wait, I'm from Denver.

Oh wait, it still applies.



2013-04-09 7:08 PM
in reply to: #4684426

User image

Elite
6387
50001000100100100252525
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch

I suppose the moral of the story is... don't ever allow your freedom to rest in the hands of 12 people that could not get out of jury duty. Act right.

And if you make your money off the public, then act right in public.... your livelihood rests in their hands.

One thing I can say with about 99% confidence... Segan is now a sitting duck to be exthorted charged with sexual misconduct in the future with proof that he is an idiot. He better wise up fast. Being a 110 lb bike pro does not win you a lot of fights with mad boyfriends.

2013-04-10 3:37 PM
in reply to: #4684426

User image

Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch

The plot thickens!!!!!!

2013-04-10 3:46 PM
in reply to: #4684426

User image

Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch

Nice.  In the US too.  So what type of charges and jail time are we looking at?

2013-04-10 3:58 PM
in reply to: #4684426

User image

Pro
15426
50005000500010010010010025
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!
2013-04-10 4:06 PM
in reply to: #4684426

User image

Elite
6387
50001000100100100252525
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
I feel violated. That happens to me all the time.... it's not my fault I can't turn this off.

Edited by powerman 2013-04-10 4:06 PM


2013-04-10 4:25 PM
in reply to: #4695358

User image

Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch

Left Brain - 2013-04-10 10:58 AM She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!

I don't know about you, but there's no way someone's pinching my butt without me fighting back.  I would have decked her right off the podium. 

2013-04-10 4:27 PM
in reply to: #4695405

User image

Pro
15426
50005000500010010010010025
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
tri808 - 2013-04-10 4:25 PM

Left Brain - 2013-04-10 10:58 AM She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!

I don't know about you, but there's no way someone's pinching my butt without me fighting back.  I would have decked her right off the podium. 

She will likely rape him next.

2013-04-10 9:40 PM
in reply to: #4695408

User image

Extreme Veteran
3023
20001000
Maryland
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
Left Brain - 2013-04-10 4:27 PM
tri808 - 2013-04-10 4:25 PM

Left Brain - 2013-04-10 10:58 AM She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!

I don't know about you, but there's no way someone's pinching my butt without me fighting back.  I would have decked her right off the podium. 

She will likely rape him next.

A man can't earn a living without being objectified by these pig women. Break the glass ceiling!

2013-04-11 12:08 AM
in reply to: #4695683

User image

Pro
15426
50005000500010010010010025
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
dmiller5 - 2013-04-10 9:40 PM
Left Brain - 2013-04-10 4:27 PM
tri808 - 2013-04-10 4:25 PM

Left Brain - 2013-04-10 10:58 AM She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!

I don't know about you, but there's no way someone's pinching my butt without me fighting back.  I would have decked her right off the podium. 

She will likely rape him next.

A man can't earn a living without being objectified by these pig women. Break the glass ceiling!

Sure......go ahead and giggle and snicker....did you not see what she did?  The horror!!

Can you not imagine his humiliation?



Edited by Left Brain 2013-04-11 12:13 AM
2013-04-11 6:12 AM
in reply to: #4695769

User image

Champion
18680
50005000500020001000500100252525
Lost in the Luminiferous Aether
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
Left Brain - 2013-04-11 1:08 AM
dmiller5 - 2013-04-10 9:40 PM
Left Brain - 2013-04-10 4:27 PM
tri808 - 2013-04-10 4:25 PM

Left Brain - 2013-04-10 10:58 AM She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!

I don't know about you, but there's no way someone's pinching my butt without me fighting back.  I would have decked her right off the podium. 

She will likely rape him next.

A man can't earn a living without being objectified by these pig women. Break the glass ceiling!

Sure......go ahead and giggle and snicker....did you not see what she did?  The horror!!

Can you not imagine his humiliation?

*rolls eyes*. Are we now supposed to jump in and defend her actions? They are just as wrong as his but hey go ahead and be dismissive with hyperbole



2013-04-11 6:14 AM
in reply to: #4695405

User image

Champion
18680
50005000500020001000500100252525
Lost in the Luminiferous Aether
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
tri808 - 2013-04-10 5:25 PM

Left Brain - 2013-04-10 10:58 AM She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!

I don't know about you, but there's no way someone's pinching my butt without me fighting back.  I would have decked her right off the podium. 

Dude look at her, she'd mop the floor with you!

No sarc font on the iPad.



Edited by trinnas 2013-04-11 6:14 AM
2013-04-11 8:43 AM
in reply to: #4695863

User image

Extreme Veteran
3023
20001000
Maryland
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
trinnas - 2013-04-11 6:14 AM
tri808 - 2013-04-10 5:25 PM

Left Brain - 2013-04-10 10:58 AM She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!

I don't know about you, but there's no way someone's pinching my butt without me fighting back.  I would have decked her right off the podium. 

Dude look at her, she'd mop the floor with you!

No sarc font on the iPad.

You don't need it, she looks pretty tough haha

2013-04-11 9:05 AM
in reply to: #4696028

User image

Pro
15426
50005000500010010010010025
Subject: RE: Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch
dmiller5 - 2013-04-11 8:43 AM
trinnas - 2013-04-11 6:14 AM
tri808 - 2013-04-10 5:25 PM

Left Brain - 2013-04-10 10:58 AM She should be put in prison.....that is absolutely outrageous behavior!!

I don't know about you, but there's no way someone's pinching my butt without me fighting back.  I would have decked her right off the podium. 

Dude look at her, she'd mop the floor with you!

No sarc font on the iPad.

You don't need it, she looks pretty tough haha

Bro, you could take her.  Kick her in her junk.

New Thread
Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch Rss Feed  
Show Per page
 
 
of 17