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What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
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 2013-05-28 8:23 AM |
Veteran  1127    Shawnee |  Subject: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?I see alot of these matched with a disc/cover in the rear. Thoughts on these? Thoughts on these as both front and back? |
| 2013-05-28 8:46 AM in reply to: dprocket |
Champion 7136  Knoxville area | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? It can be a pretty cheap solution (matched with a disc cover) for a slick set of race wheels. The pro's are that it's nearly indestructible (I have an old specialized one from the early 90's that is still as good as when it was new) and can be very aerodynamic. The downsides are that it can be troublesome for lighter riders or those that get spooked easy when it's windy... the sudden push it can create on the front can be unnerving sometimes for those unaccustomed to it. Also, to be fast it requires a VERY specific tire choice. Since the rim is only 19mm wide, it needs to have a small tire to fit up... which is especially annoying for the clinchers. The Bontrager Aerowing TT (no longer in production) is the best of these tires, although some people have moved to the GP SuperSonic (20mm) with some success. Running a wider tire (which is now the craze with Firecrest, C2, etc) will make it a pretty poor choice for an aerowheel. I'd rather have a disc in the rear, since it will help mitigate the pushing from the wind (and it's also faster) but it's still a fine choice. I have raced on a LOT of aero wheels... and I still prefer my H3 to the rest. |
| 2013-05-28 9:14 AM in reply to: Leegoocrap |
Veteran 1127 Shawnee | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? I sent you a message. |
| 2013-05-28 9:33 AM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? I've got a set of front & rear HED.3's. No complaints at all. I've also got a used Renn 575 rear disc (a cover wasn't compatible with my Shimano training wheels). Biggest issue with buying used HED.3's is checking the runout since they can't be trued like a spoked wheel can. I use the HED front with the Renn disc for most of my races, but will occasionally use both the front & rear HED's, depending on the conditions. Mark
Edited by RedCorvette 2013-05-28 9:35 AM |
| 2013-05-28 3:49 PM in reply to: dprocket |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? H3's are still one of the fastest wheels out there. There's a reason that Wiggen's uses it and wins the Olympic and TdF time trials on it (the brits spent a lot of money on aero testing). That said, it does have some limitations. It's not as fast at higher yaw angles (i.e. cross winds) as some of the newer wheels, and it's a little harder to handle in gusty/cross conditions. that- and as Leego noted, you should pair it with a narrow tire for race day. that said- they're tough wheels. you can use them every day, and they never need truing. Oh- and look very cool. But, picking up a used one and putting a cover on your rear is possibly the cheapest speed (in wheels) that you can buy. worth checking out the FLO's as well. |
| 2013-05-28 4:41 PM in reply to: dprocket |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? I've used dual Specialized Tri-Spokes (same external design as Hed 3) in 700c, and Hed 3 front/Renn Disk rear in 650's. Putting the disk in back really calms things down in front. And yes, wicked fast wheels and near bombproof. |
| 2013-05-28 6:21 PM in reply to: briderdt |
| 93 | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? Originally posted by briderdt I've used dual Specialized Tri-Spokes (same external design as Hed 3) in 700c, and Hed 3 front/Renn Disk rear in 650's. Putting the disk in back really calms things down in front. And yes, wicked fast wheels and near bombproof. Can elaborate more on the "calms things down in front". I am looking at using either HED3's or HED3 front and disc rear for IM Arizona, but i am worried about crosswind with the HED3 in the front. trying to figure if this would be a good combo for this race. Thanks! |
| 2013-05-28 6:42 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? No idea if they calm things down in front, but used the disc/H3 combo for the first time at Wildflower, during a severe wind warning. No issues with the disc, but the gusts made the front interesting. Have to be focused and be able to read the terrain if you can to anticipate the gusts. The rear was absolutely fine, most people think it makes it worse, and I got "I am glad I wasn't running a disc" comments, but those were from people who have not used one. Rear felt solid. Maybe it helped the front a little too, certainly helped not running the H3 rear, but wind and handling issues are more influenced by the frnt wheel than rear, I believe I wouldn't hesitate a second to run a disc/H3 at IMAZ. Edited by ChrisM 2013-05-28 6:43 PM |
| 2013-05-28 7:05 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| 93 | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? thanks Chris, I have run HED3's on front and rear and was hesitant to run it on the front in AZ but i think i may go with the disc rear, HED3 front. |
| 2013-05-28 8:12 PM in reply to: weiky |
| Colorado | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? A rear disc / cover does help mitigate problems in windy conditions. It may seem counter-intuitive, but an H3 on the front + disc/cover on the back will be less twitchy in crosswinds than a pair of H3s. Same is true of a deep front like a Jet 9 or 808--a rear disc actually helps. Originally posted by weiky Originally posted by briderdt I've used dual Specialized Tri-Spokes (same external design as Hed 3) in 700c, and Hed 3 front/Renn Disk rear in 650's. Putting the disk in back really calms things down in front. And yes, wicked fast wheels and near bombproof. Can elaborate more on the "calms things down in front". I am looking at using either HED3's or HED3 front and disc rear for IM Arizona, but i am worried about crosswind with the HED3 in the front. trying to figure if this would be a good combo for this race. Thanks! |
| 2013-05-28 10:39 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 643 , Guam | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? I've been using Hed 3 front / Zipp disc rear for years to train and race and I love that set-up. I bought Hed 3 for my GF's QR CDO.1 front and rear and she loves them. Edited by spearit 2013-05-28 10:40 PM |
| 2013-05-29 7:25 AM in reply to: dprocket |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? I love my Hed 3's. I train on the set and use a disc cover over my other rear wheel for races. I had a set of Reynolds Strikes and honestly don't see much differences in windy conditions. The Hed 3's are maybe affected just a little bit more but not much (I am a heavier rider however). |
| 2013-05-29 10:03 AM in reply to: Leegoocrap |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? Leegoo (or anyone who can answer) how big of a disadvantage is using a 21mm front tire rather than a 19/20mm? Is it worth buying a 20 if I'm already running a 21? |
| 2013-05-29 10:18 AM in reply to: rjrankin83 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? Originally posted by rjrankin83 Leegoo (or anyone who can answer) how big of a disadvantage is using a 21mm front tire rather than a 19/20mm? Is it worth buying a 20 if I'm already running a 21? Well... two things. 1.) Everybodys idea of what's "worth it" varies/ 2.) What 21mm tire do you have on there now? I'd say going from a *fast* 21mm to Aerowing/SuSo is probably in the realm of a minute/40k, maybe a bit less if you have a very low RR tire currently. From a stinky 21mm it could be more. On the front tire usually aero>RR. |
| 2013-05-29 2:07 PM in reply to: Leegoocrap |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? Originally posted by Leegoocrap It can be a pretty cheap solution (matched with a disc cover) for a slick set of race wheels. The pro's are that it's nearly indestructible (I have an old specialized one from the early 90's that is still as good as when it was new) and can be very aerodynamic. The downsides are that it can be troublesome for lighter riders or those that get spooked easy when it's windy... the sudden push it can create on the front can be unnerving sometimes for those unaccustomed to it. Also, to be fast it requires a VERY specific tire choice. Since the rim is only 19mm wide, it needs to have a small tire to fit up... which is especially annoying for the clinchers. The Bontrager Aerowing TT (no longer in production) is the best of these tires, although some people have moved to the GP SuperSonic (20mm) with some success. Running a wider tire (which is now the craze with Firecrest, C2, etc) will make it a pretty poor choice for an aerowheel. I'd rather have a disc in the rear, since it will help mitigate the pushing from the wind (and it's also faster) but it's still a fine choice. I have raced on a LOT of aero wheels... and I still prefer my H3 to the rest. The quandary of Aero vs Crr. With all the tire Crr data now out there I took a look at the Bontrager Aerowing TT & GP SuperSonic (20mm) data that was linked over on ST.
If one believes the HED webpage aero data specs are all comparable (baseline wheel is the same) then the H3 is only faster at yaw angles <7.5 deg vs the Jet 60 & Jet 90 and progressively slower at great yaw angles (drag delta >100g at 15 deg). With today's wide wheel options, seems like a FLO 60 with GP4000s 23c for aero-ness, better Crr, tire durability & ride quality on roads would be the way to go. |
| 2013-05-29 5:07 PM in reply to: Leegoocrap |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? I have a cheaper Tufo tire. Had it for awhile and could probably justify changing it. A minute in an Olympic is very worth it for me |
| 2013-05-29 5:27 PM in reply to: rjrankin83 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? Originally posted by rjrankin83 I have a cheaper Tufo tire. Had it for awhile and could probably justify changing it. A minute in an Olympic is very worth it for me BT friends don't let BT friends ride Tufo's! Conti GP SuSo is the way to go... |
| 2013-05-29 6:33 PM in reply to: Donto |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? The Tufo was on the wheel when I got it. Didn't actually think too much about tires until now. As far as the Hed 3 all I knew was narrower=better. I'll pick up a SuSo before my next race |
| 2013-05-29 7:51 PM in reply to: Donto |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? Originally posted by Donto Originally posted by Leegoocrap It can be a pretty cheap solution (matched with a disc cover) for a slick set of race wheels. The pro's are that it's nearly indestructible (I have an old specialized one from the early 90's that is still as good as when it was new) and can be very aerodynamic. The downsides are that it can be troublesome for lighter riders or those that get spooked easy when it's windy... the sudden push it can create on the front can be unnerving sometimes for those unaccustomed to it. Also, to be fast it requires a VERY specific tire choice. Since the rim is only 19mm wide, it needs to have a small tire to fit up... which is especially annoying for the clinchers. The Bontrager Aerowing TT (no longer in production) is the best of these tires, although some people have moved to the GP SuperSonic (20mm) with some success. Running a wider tire (which is now the craze with Firecrest, C2, etc) will make it a pretty poor choice for an aerowheel. I'd rather have a disc in the rear, since it will help mitigate the pushing from the wind (and it's also faster) but it's still a fine choice. I have raced on a LOT of aero wheels... and I still prefer my H3 to the rest. The quandary of Aero vs Crr. With all the tire Crr data now out there I took a look at the Bontrager Aerowing TT & GP SuperSonic (20mm) data that was linked over on ST.
If one believes the HED webpage aero data specs are all comparable (baseline wheel is the same) then the H3 is only faster at yaw angles <7.5 deg vs the Jet 60 & Jet 90 and progressively slower at great yaw angles (drag delta >100g at 15 deg). With today's wide wheel options, seems like a FLO 60 with GP4000s 23c for aero-ness, better Crr, tire durability & ride quality on roads would be the way to go. while you're certainly right about the rolling resistance, in regards to a front H3, the Bonty Aerowing / SuSo is STILL faster by a considerable margin due to the near match between rim and tire and a narrower tire just being more aerodynamic by design. If you really wanted to go deeper into it... fork selection means a lot when it comes to how an H3 will perform as well. Deep blades (The old Felt carbon forks particularly) tested MUCH better with an H3. Shallow aero forks (Ouzo's particularly) tested worse than with a 404/jet6 |
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