General Discussion Triathlon Talk » What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2013-05-28 8:23 AM

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
I see alot of these matched with a disc/cover in the rear.

Thoughts on these?

Thoughts on these as both front and back?


2013-05-28 8:46 AM
in reply to: dprocket

User image

Champion
7136
5000200010025
Knoxville area
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
It can be a pretty cheap solution (matched with a disc cover) for a slick set of race wheels.

The pro's are that it's nearly indestructible (I have an old specialized one from the early 90's that is still as good as when it was new) and can be very aerodynamic.

The downsides are that it can be troublesome for lighter riders or those that get spooked easy when it's windy... the sudden push it can create on the front can be unnerving sometimes for those unaccustomed to it.

Also, to be fast it requires a VERY specific tire choice. Since the rim is only 19mm wide, it needs to have a small tire to fit up... which is especially annoying for the clinchers. The Bontrager Aerowing TT (no longer in production) is the best of these tires, although some people have moved to the GP SuperSonic (20mm) with some success. Running a wider tire (which is now the craze with Firecrest, C2, etc) will make it a pretty poor choice for an aerowheel.

I'd rather have a disc in the rear, since it will help mitigate the pushing from the wind (and it's also faster) but it's still a fine choice.

I have raced on a LOT of aero wheels... and I still prefer my H3 to the rest.
2013-05-28 9:14 AM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
I sent you a message.
2013-05-28 9:33 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Champion
7036
5000200025
Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?

I've got a set of front & rear HED.3's.  No complaints at all.  I've also got a used Renn 575 rear disc (a cover wasn't compatible with my Shimano training wheels).

Biggest issue with buying used HED.3's is checking the runout since they can't be trued like a spoked wheel can.

I use the HED front with the Renn disc for most of my races, but will occasionally use both the front & rear HED's, depending on the conditions.

Mark

 



Edited by RedCorvette 2013-05-28 9:35 AM
2013-05-28 3:49 PM
in reply to: dprocket

User image

Pro
5361
50001001001002525
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?

H3's are still one of the fastest wheels out there. There's a reason that Wiggen's uses it and wins the Olympic and TdF time trials on it (the brits spent a lot of money on aero testing).  That said, it does have some limitations.  It's not as fast at higher yaw angles (i.e. cross winds) as some of the newer wheels, and it's a little harder to handle in gusty/cross conditions.

that- and as Leego noted, you should pair it with a narrow tire for race day.

that said- they're tough wheels.  you can use them every day, and they  never need truing.  Oh- and look very cool.

But, picking up a used one and putting a cover on your rear is possibly the cheapest speed (in wheels) that you can buy. 

worth checking out the FLO's as well.

2013-05-28 4:41 PM
in reply to: dprocket

User image

Champion
10662
500050005001002525
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
I've used dual Specialized Tri-Spokes (same external design as Hed 3) in 700c, and Hed 3 front/Renn Disk rear in 650's. Putting the disk in back really calms things down in front. And yes, wicked fast wheels and near bombproof.


2013-05-28 6:21 PM
in reply to: briderdt


93
252525
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
Originally posted by briderdt

I've used dual Specialized Tri-Spokes (same external design as Hed 3) in 700c, and Hed 3 front/Renn Disk rear in 650's. Putting the disk in back really calms things down in front. And yes, wicked fast wheels and near bombproof.



Can elaborate more on the "calms things down in front". I am looking at using either HED3's or HED3 front and disc rear for IM Arizona, but i am worried about crosswind with the HED3 in the front. trying to figure if this would be a good combo for this race.
Thanks!
2013-05-28 6:42 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?

No idea if they calm things down in front, but used the disc/H3 combo for the first time at Wildflower, during a severe wind warning.  No issues with the disc, but the gusts made the front interesting.  Have to be focused and be able to read the terrain if you can to anticipate the gusts.   The rear was absolutely fine, most people think it makes it worse, and I got "I am glad I wasn't running a disc" comments, but those were from people who have not used one.  Rear felt solid.  Maybe it helped the front a little too, certainly helped not running the H3 rear, but wind and handling issues are more influenced by the frnt wheel than rear, I believe

I wouldn't hesitate a second to run a disc/H3 at IMAZ.



Edited by ChrisM 2013-05-28 6:43 PM
2013-05-28 7:05 PM
in reply to: ChrisM


93
252525
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
thanks Chris, I have run HED3's on front and rear and was hesitant to run it on the front in AZ but i think i may go with the disc rear, HED3 front.
2013-05-28 8:12 PM
in reply to: weiky

User image

Colorado
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
A rear disc / cover does help mitigate problems in windy conditions. It may seem counter-intuitive, but an H3 on the front + disc/cover on the back will be less twitchy in crosswinds than a pair of H3s. Same is true of a deep front like a Jet 9 or 808--a rear disc actually helps.

Originally posted by weiky

Originally posted by briderdt

I've used dual Specialized Tri-Spokes (same external design as Hed 3) in 700c, and Hed 3 front/Renn Disk rear in 650's. Putting the disk in back really calms things down in front. And yes, wicked fast wheels and near bombproof.



Can elaborate more on the "calms things down in front". I am looking at using either HED3's or HED3 front and disc rear for IM Arizona, but i am worried about crosswind with the HED3 in the front. trying to figure if this would be a good combo for this race.
Thanks!
2013-05-28 10:39 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Extreme Veteran
643
50010025
, Guam
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
I've been using Hed 3 front / Zipp disc rear for years to train and race and I love that set-up.
I bought Hed 3 for my GF's QR CDO.1 front and rear and she loves them.

Edited by spearit 2013-05-28 10:40 PM


2013-05-29 7:25 AM
in reply to: dprocket

User image

Expert
1130
100010025
Fernandina Beach, FL
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
I love my Hed 3's. I train on the set and use a disc cover over my other rear wheel for races. I had a set of Reynolds Strikes and honestly don't see much differences in windy conditions. The Hed 3's are maybe affected just a little bit more but not much (I am a heavier rider however).
2013-05-29 10:03 AM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

User image

Expert
1130
100010025
Fernandina Beach, FL
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
Leegoo (or anyone who can answer) how big of a disadvantage is using a 21mm front tire rather than a 19/20mm? Is it worth buying a 20 if I'm already running a 21?
2013-05-29 10:18 AM
in reply to: rjrankin83

User image

Champion
7136
5000200010025
Knoxville area
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
Originally posted by rjrankin83

Leegoo (or anyone who can answer) how big of a disadvantage is using a 21mm front tire rather than a 19/20mm? Is it worth buying a 20 if I'm already running a 21?


Well... two things.
1.) Everybodys idea of what's "worth it" varies/
2.) What 21mm tire do you have on there now?

I'd say going from a *fast* 21mm to Aerowing/SuSo is probably in the realm of a minute/40k, maybe a bit less if you have a very low RR tire currently.

From a stinky 21mm it could be more. On the front tire usually aero>RR.
2013-05-29 2:07 PM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

User image

Pro
6581
50001000500252525
Melbourne FL
Gold member
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?

Originally posted by Leegoocrap It can be a pretty cheap solution (matched with a disc cover) for a slick set of race wheels. The pro's are that it's nearly indestructible (I have an old specialized one from the early 90's that is still as good as when it was new) and can be very aerodynamic. The downsides are that it can be troublesome for lighter riders or those that get spooked easy when it's windy... the sudden push it can create on the front can be unnerving sometimes for those unaccustomed to it. Also, to be fast it requires a VERY specific tire choice. Since the rim is only 19mm wide, it needs to have a small tire to fit up... which is especially annoying for the clinchers. The Bontrager Aerowing TT (no longer in production) is the best of these tires, although some people have moved to the GP SuperSonic (20mm) with some success. Running a wider tire (which is now the craze with Firecrest, C2, etc) will make it a pretty poor choice for an aerowheel. I'd rather have a disc in the rear, since it will help mitigate the pushing from the wind (and it's also faster) but it's still a fine choice. I have raced on a LOT of aero wheels... and I still prefer my H3 to the rest.

The quandary of Aero vs Crr. With all the tire Crr data now out there I took a look at the Bontrager Aerowing TT & GP SuperSonic (20mm) data that was linked over on ST. 

  • The Bontrager Aerowing TT 19c with latex is a slow tire, same as running a GP4000s 23c with butyl tube, or 5W (20mph) to 7W (40kph) slower as a pair of GP4000s 23c with latex tubes..
  • GP SuperSonic 20c with latex measured the same Crr as a GP4000s 23c with latex.
  • The non chili GP4000 20c measured the same as the Bontrager Aerowing TT.

If one believes the HED webpage aero data specs are all comparable (baseline wheel is the same) then the H3 is only faster at yaw angles <7.5 deg vs the Jet 60 & Jet 90 and progressively slower at great yaw angles (drag delta >100g at 15 deg).

With today's wide wheel options, seems like a FLO 60 with GP4000s 23c for aero-ness, better Crr, tire durability & ride quality on roads would be the way to go.

2013-05-29 5:07 PM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

User image

Expert
1130
100010025
Fernandina Beach, FL
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
I have a cheaper Tufo tire. Had it for awhile and could probably justify changing it. A minute in an Olympic is very worth it for me


2013-05-29 5:27 PM
in reply to: rjrankin83

User image

Pro
6581
50001000500252525
Melbourne FL
Gold member
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?

Originally posted by rjrankin83 I have a cheaper Tufo tire. Had it for awhile and could probably justify changing it. A minute in an Olympic is very worth it for me

BT friends don't let BT friends ride Tufo's!

Conti GP SuSo is the way to go...

2013-05-29 6:33 PM
in reply to: Donto

User image

Expert
1130
100010025
Fernandina Beach, FL
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
The Tufo was on the wheel when I got it. Didn't actually think too much about tires until now. As far as the Hed 3 all I knew was narrower=better. I'll pick up a SuSo before my next race
2013-05-29 7:51 PM
in reply to: Donto

User image

Champion
7136
5000200010025
Knoxville area
Subject: RE: What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels?
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by Leegoocrap It can be a pretty cheap solution (matched with a disc cover) for a slick set of race wheels. The pro's are that it's nearly indestructible (I have an old specialized one from the early 90's that is still as good as when it was new) and can be very aerodynamic. The downsides are that it can be troublesome for lighter riders or those that get spooked easy when it's windy... the sudden push it can create on the front can be unnerving sometimes for those unaccustomed to it. Also, to be fast it requires a VERY specific tire choice. Since the rim is only 19mm wide, it needs to have a small tire to fit up... which is especially annoying for the clinchers. The Bontrager Aerowing TT (no longer in production) is the best of these tires, although some people have moved to the GP SuperSonic (20mm) with some success. Running a wider tire (which is now the craze with Firecrest, C2, etc) will make it a pretty poor choice for an aerowheel. I'd rather have a disc in the rear, since it will help mitigate the pushing from the wind (and it's also faster) but it's still a fine choice. I have raced on a LOT of aero wheels... and I still prefer my H3 to the rest.

The quandary of Aero vs Crr. With all the tire Crr data now out there I took a look at the Bontrager Aerowing TT & GP SuperSonic (20mm) data that was linked over on ST. 

  • The Bontrager Aerowing TT 19c with latex is a slow tire, same as running a GP4000s 23c with butyl tube, or 5W (20mph) to 7W (40kph) slower as a pair of GP4000s 23c with latex tubes..
  • GP SuperSonic 20c with latex measured the same Crr as a GP4000s 23c with latex.
  • The non chili GP4000 20c measured the same as the Bontrager Aerowing TT.

If one believes the HED webpage aero data specs are all comparable (baseline wheel is the same) then the H3 is only faster at yaw angles <7.5 deg vs the Jet 60 & Jet 90 and progressively slower at great yaw angles (drag delta >100g at 15 deg).

With today's wide wheel options, seems like a FLO 60 with GP4000s 23c for aero-ness, better Crr, tire durability & ride quality on roads would be the way to go.




while you're certainly right about the rolling resistance, in regards to a front H3, the Bonty Aerowing / SuSo is STILL faster by a considerable margin due to the near match between rim and tire and a narrower tire just being more aerodynamic by design.

If you really wanted to go deeper into it... fork selection means a lot when it comes to how an H3 will perform as well. Deep blades (The old Felt carbon forks particularly) tested MUCH better with an H3. Shallow aero forks (Ouzo's particularly) tested worse than with a 404/jet6

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » What are the general feelings on the HED H3 wheels? Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

HED H3 Front Wobble

Started by gohmdoree
Views: 942 Posts: 2

2012-05-12 6:49 PM morey000

HED H3

Started by runninirish
Views: 1302 Posts: 9

2012-04-03 10:52 AM Leegoocrap

HED H3 vs Zipp 808 FC

Started by gohmdoree
Views: 5873 Posts: 13

2012-06-10 12:08 PM gohmdoree

HED H3 versus Hed 3D clincher

Started by Izlude
Views: 4629 Posts: 15

2010-11-08 12:39 PM mktoson

Need inexpensive place to buy HED h3 700c tube

Started by bartturner
Views: 1025 Posts: 2

2008-08-22 5:12 PM ChrisM
RELATED ARTICLES
date : October 27, 2011
author : FitWerx
comments : 1
Hint: It's not a one-person job
 
date : November 16, 2009
author : FitWerx
comments : 1
Should I remove the PD Jammers bars and ride it as is, set-up for riding in the drops and hoods? Should I run my Easton Orion II wheels or my Hed Jet60 C2's for IMWI?
date : August 7, 2009
author : Coach AJ
comments : 0
Looking to rent or try-before-you-buy race wheels for your next triathlon? Coach AJ checks out the service at RaceDay Wheels.
 
date : December 15, 2008
author : FitWerx
comments : 0
My back wheel needs to be trued up. It has a slight side-to-side wobble, and I feel at times like I'm going to lose control when I ride. Is this something that I should only trust to my LBS to do?
date : August 5, 2008
author : FitWerx
comments : 0
The wheels are my first area of concern and I have started to shop around. I find it nauseating to think of spending the same amount for wheels as my bike. Any help?
 
date : May 5, 2008
author : TriPainter
comments : 1
I went into the pool area (as this was a pool swim) and got body marked. That's when it hit me that I was there to race - this was not a clinic.
date : November 6, 2007
author : Ron
comments : 2
Don't know how to take that rear wheel off of your bike? Is the chain making things difficult? Learn how to remove your rear wheel if you have to change your bike tire or fix a flat.
 
date : April 13, 2007
author : B-One
comments : 8
This article estimates how much time can be saved in sprint races by converting from stock aero wheels found on most tri bikes to more aero disk and composite spoked wheels.