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The kona goal ? Out of reach ? (Page 2)
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 2013-10-14 9:45 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
 489  |  Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ?Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Dan-L I’ll respectfully disagree with the genetics part (can’t argue about the cash!) I don’t think genetics matter for age group ironman athletes looking to qualify for Kona. They matter in Olympic finals and in genuine World Championship competitions (ie; only the best in the world can take part, not the best in the world for various different age brackets. You are seriously underestimating what it takes to KQ in most age groups. To discount talent does a disservice to those who work hard but will only KQ if they outlive their competition. There’s a fantastic book by Matthew Syed called “Bounce: The myth of talent and the power of practice”. That makes the argument against genetics far better than I ever could. I really urge anyone to read it as it gives an amazing insight into what it really took to make the greatest in all kinds of pursuits including examples of those who were labelled ‘gifted’. Turns out they all just started young and had great coaches (time alone isn’t enough, focussed time with a goal and utter determination) Syed, like Gladwell, seriously overstates the importance of 10 000 hours while understating the importance of genetics. It is an easy trap to fall into as it is usually presented as an either/or strawman; either you are great because of genetics or because of hard work. Of course hard work is critical but to discount genetic gifts paints an incomplete picture. I maintain that if you can afford it, you’re willing to sacrifice and you have guidance from an experienced/qualified person on what to do and when to do it – anyone can get to the Kona start line. On the men's side, in the main age groups, a KQ will be a 2:05 or faster oly (and it gets faster every year) and while a 2:05 is well back from elite, it requires some genetic talent for endurance sport. This does not mean those with talent don't have to work but that talent is an important consideration as well. Shane Ok, I get it. You can all keep telling yourself you can’t do something because you’ve got the wrong parents. A disservice to those that work hard? Absolute tosh. I hate to see someone not fulfilling their potential because of self-imposed limiters. Positive mind sets are crucial and going into something placing a huge self-imposed barrier in front of you creates an insurmountable obstacle and is an excuse for not giving your all. How many people stop looking for the key to Kona because they’ve decided they’re not genetically capable of doing it? What have Oly times got to do with IM times? That’s a really strange and irrelevant statistic to pull out. I know a dozen people that have raced Kona. None of them consider themselves genetically advantaged. I’ve only ever heard two people thank their genetics in IM; Jodie Swallow (70.3 World Champion) and Chrissie. And that’s why I think it’s only at the highest level it really matters. Anything below that can be trumped by effective hard work. |
| 2013-10-14 9:54 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 489 | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Dan-L Originally posted by Leegoocrap Here's a question... is motivation, or the willingness to suffer for that matter, genetic? Love that question. I don’t really have an answer for the ‘no you can’t’, ‘you don’t understand the sport’ crowd. It’s a round robin argument that doesn’t get anywhere. I’ve been doing triathlons for a long time including three IM distance races. It’s not a question of not understanding what it takes, my central point is that it’s not genetics that isn’t the differentiator between those one the start line and those that aren’t. I reckon I can deliver a Kona qualifying time in three years and I definitely have no genetic gifts! Let’s dig the thread out this time in 2016 and see how it went. What are your times now for Oly, HIM, and IM? What do you think it will take to KQ in three years? I only race HIM and IM distance. My most recent (and 3rd) IM was in August where I went 12:15 off the back of 7 hours focussed training for three months. In the months before that I trained sporadically because I was studying part-time as well as working. My previous times in 2009 and 2010 were similar. I also did a HIM in May in 5.50. I think I can get there in the 40-45 age bracket with a 9:45 in a European race with a couple of things going my way. I break that down as a 52 swim, 5:20 bike and 3.30 marathon including transitions. I used to be a (GB) national standard swimmer so the swim isn’t a problem and, more importantly, I can deliver that time without it hurting and hit the bike fresh. I currently weigh 210lbs so have 30 to shed there –that’s free speed. I’m all my years of triathlon I’ve never run properly, neglecting that part of my training so I think a focus there will help me. I’m entered into Roth next year and target 11 hours, 2015 I target 10 hours and 2016 I go for it. |
| 2013-10-14 10:00 AM in reply to: Dan-L |
Champion 9407   Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by Dan-L Ok, I get it. You can all keep telling yourself you can’t do something because you’ve got the wrong parents. On the contrary; I am quite sure that if I were to commit myself to IM that I could KQ. However, I also acknowledge that I have some genetic talent with endurance sport and while it would take hard work to get there, not everyone has the capability. A disservice to those that work hard? Absolute tosh. I hate to see someone not fulfilling their potential because of self-imposed limiters. Positive mind sets are crucial and going into something placing a huge self-imposed barrier in front of you creates an insurmountable obstacle and is an excuse for not giving your all. How many people stop looking for the key to Kona because they’ve decided they’re not genetically capable of doing it? Yes a disservice. You are telling those who put in the work and fail to KQ that they just need to work harder or smarter discounts that they may never get there, even with the perfect training program. What have Oly times got to do with IM times? That’s a really strange and irrelevant statistic to pull out. You are incorrect. They are both endurance events and the best predictor of performance for both events is power/pace at threshold. I know a dozen people that have raced Kona. None of them consider themselves genetically advantaged. I’ve only ever heard two people thank their genetics in IM; Jodie Swallow (70.3 World Champion) and Chrissie. And that’s why I think it’s only at the highest level it really matters. Anything below that can be trumped by effective hard work. I'm not saying it doesn't take hard work but talent is also a component. It is not an either/or proposition and trying to frame it that way simply creates a strawman. Shane |
| 2013-10-14 10:05 AM in reply to: Dan-L |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by Dan-L Originally posted by Left Brain I only race HIM and IM distance. My most recent (and 3rd) IM was in August where I went 12:15 off the back of 7 hours focussed training for three months. In the months before that I trained sporadically because I was studying part-time as well as working. My previous times in 2009 and 2010 were similar. I also did a HIM in May in 5.50. I think I can get there in the 40-45 age bracket with a 9:45 in a European race with a couple of things going my way. I break that down as a 52 swim, 5:20 bike and 3.30 marathon including transitions. I used to be a (GB) national standard swimmer so the swim isn’t a problem and, more importantly, I can deliver that time without it hurting and hit the bike fresh. I currently weigh 210lbs so have 30 to shed there –that’s free speed. I’m all my years of triathlon I’ve never run properly, neglecting that part of my training so I think a focus there will help me. I’m entered into Roth next year and target 11 hours, 2015 I target 10 hours and 2016 I go for it. Originally posted by Dan-L Originally posted by Leegoocrap Here's a question... is motivation, or the willingness to suffer for that matter, genetic? Love that question. I don’t really have an answer for the ‘no you can’t’, ‘you don’t understand the sport’ crowd. It’s a round robin argument that doesn’t get anywhere. I’ve been doing triathlons for a long time including three IM distance races. It’s not a question of not understanding what it takes, my central point is that it’s not genetics that isn’t the differentiator between those one the start line and those that aren’t. I reckon I can deliver a Kona qualifying time in three years and I definitely have no genetic gifts! Let’s dig the thread out this time in 2016 and see how it went. What are your times now for Oly, HIM, and IM? What do you think it will take to KQ in three years? If you were a "national standard" swimmer you likely have some genetic ability....if you want to discount that, that's fine. If you want to discount genetics altogether, that's fine. It's wrong, but it's ok with me. I don't know...... a 5:50 HIM is a loooong way from a 9:45 IM....good luck!! Seriously! |
| 2013-10-14 10:11 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 489 | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Ok we can agree to differ – sometimes when you’re the only one in the room with an opinion you’ve got to wonder if it’s as sound as you think it is. I appear to be that guy. You’re right – it’s a long way but it was off the back of hardly any training and I reckon with the right training I can hit those targets. I’m not discounting genetics; I just don’t think it’s a differentiator at age group level in a sport with relatively low participation. Thanks for the good luck. Appreciated. I’m finding the whole thread motivating. |
| 2013-10-14 10:22 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. |
| 2013-10-14 10:26 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. What makes you believe that? |
| 2013-10-14 10:33 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. To qualify, unless you plan on a roll down, means you are at the top end. With only 50-100 spots per race, you basically need to be in contention to win your age group to have a legitimate shot. Shane |
| 2013-10-14 10:34 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Pro 5169 Burbs | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. 1. A "large percentage" cannot, by definition, KQ. Only a certain percentage of AG gets the KQ. 2. Isn't qualifying being in the top end of the field? |
| 2013-10-14 10:50 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. To qualify, unless you plan on a roll down, means you are at the top end. With only 50-100 spots per race, you basically need to be in contention to win your age group to have a legitimate shot. Shane Interesting discussion here. I don't think everybody (or a large percentage of triathletes) can KQ - to say anybody can if they put forth the effort is, imho, not realistic. I can work my a$$ off, have the best equipment and coach, but I know I won't KQ....it's not in the cards for me and I'm cool with that. I will work my a$$ off to get faster and do better for myself, but unless all the finishers ahead of me already have Kona slots, pass on the rolldown, don't show-up for the rolldown, are caught by the anti-doping folks (do they even test AGers?) or are struck by some other calamity, then I won't be a Kona qualifier. It's lottery or bust for me. |
| 2013-10-14 10:50 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by mike761 When someone puts in the proper training and time Next question. Do you think genetics are necessary to be able to put in the proper time? More is more, but not everyone out there can physically (or mentally) stand the abuse of a 40, 30, 20 or even 15 hour / week training schedule. |
| 2013-10-14 10:58 AM in reply to: trishie |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by trishie Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. 1. A "large percentage" cannot, by definition, KQ. Only a certain percentage of AG gets the KQ. 2. Isn't qualifying being in the top end of the field? Of course you are correct- if everyone was qualifying than the standards would tighten up. That's why I put this into that statement: "Also at today's standards" |
| 2013-10-14 10:59 AM in reply to: Leegoocrap |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by Leegoocrap Originally posted by mike761 When someone puts in the proper training and time Next question. Do you think genetics are necessary to be able to put in the proper time? More is more, but not everyone out there can physically (or mentally) stand the abuse of a 40, 30, 20 or even 15 hour / week training schedule. This is the key! I believe the Mental part is what most people lack. Is that genetic??? |
| 2013-10-14 11:02 AM in reply to: Bigdave001 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? I am working on my KQ plan right now. I age up in 2015 to 55-59 and figure there may be fewer old guys racing. I have manged to podium in a couple of races in the 50-54 group and think that with some focused work I could maybe pull it off. I am looking at Eagleman as a qualifier but realize since it is the only 70.3 qualifier in the US right now that there are plenty of other folks with the same plan. I'll see how I do in the first couple of years at that age group. If I am nowhere near the podium I'll re-evaluate. I will certainly accept a roll down though. I heard that last year at Placid the roll down for 50-54 went to a guy who had a finish time close to mine when I raced in 2011 but that looks like it would have skipped 40+ athletes. Is that possible? I didn't even go to the roll down meeting when I raced. Is roll down info publicly available? |
| 2013-10-14 11:04 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. What makes you believe that? My glass is half full! I believe I can! You want an athletic background? I was a high level swimmer 25 years ago. I did train and Olympic swimmer 20 years ago. I was in a university study this summer, although I was not well trained I had a pretty good VO2 max. |
| 2013-10-14 11:05 AM in reply to: mrbbrad |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? roll down "miracles" do happen, (there was the guy that was like 16 hours a few years ago that took a rolldown slot) but it's not something to count on. You have to be present to accept a rolldown. |
| 2013-10-14 11:05 AM in reply to: Leegoocrap |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? When we're talking about natural talent, more than just genetics are at play. Many people are born with minor and barely noticeable physical limitations that are not inherited and potentially not correctable. Many of us have such limitations. And we might never even notice if we weren't training for endurance athletics. For example, maybe one leg is just a millimeter shorter than the other. If you didn't run 25-45 mpw on it you may not notice a darn thing is wrong your whole life. But with a leg length discrepancy, hitting those running times may just not be possible because you'll never be as well balanced as you need to be to hit the pace the KQ'ers are hitting, and that imbalance will also likely land you with an injury eventually. The motivation and determination have to be there no doubt, but the machine may still have limitations you'll never be able to correct enough to hit those key paces. |
| 2013-10-14 11:07 AM in reply to: trishie |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by trishie Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. 1. A "large percentage" cannot, by definition, KQ. Only a certain percentage of AG gets the KQ. 2. Isn't qualifying being in the top end of the field? I tend to agree with Dan on this. Consider that the pros usually come in a full hour faster than the top AGers. There's definitely some leeway and you probably don't need perfect genetic gifts to qualify. The real limiter for most AGers is what they do to pay the bills in the real world. Take a couple years off, live in Boulder, generally make triathlon the focus instead of somewhere 10+ down the list... you get the idea. You still need to have a good day at the right race but it's not unfathomable. |
| 2013-10-14 11:07 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Leegoocrap This is the key! I believe the Mental part is what most people lack. Is that genetic??? Originally posted by mike761 When someone puts in the proper training and time Next question. Do you think genetics are necessary to be able to put in the proper time? More is more, but not everyone out there can physically (or mentally) stand the abuse of a 40, 30, 20 or even 15 hour / week training schedule. Well that's all great, but if you can't swim 2.4 miles in about an hour, or run a 3:30 marathon after averaging 21-22 mph on the bike for 5 hours, you can go ahead and use all that mental capacity to think about what might have been.
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| 2013-10-14 11:10 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain My glass is half full! I believe I can! You want an athletic background? I was a high level swimmer 25 years ago. I did train and Olympic swimmer 20 years ago. I was in a university study this summer, although I was not well trained I had a pretty good VO2 max. Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. What makes you believe that? Genetics. |
| 2013-10-14 11:16 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain My glass is half full! I believe I can! You want an athletic background? I was a high level swimmer 25 years ago. I did train and Olympic swimmer 20 years ago. I was in a university study this summer, although I was not well trained I had a pretty good VO2 max. Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. What makes you believe that? Genetics. No that was Hard work! The Emor brothers, and Wharton that used to beat me had the genetics! That's why I was never going to the Olympics, didn't mean I wasn't going to make them work for that win! |
| 2013-10-14 11:27 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by mike761 Of course you are correct- if everyone was qualifying than the standards would tighten up. That's why I put this into that statement: "Also at today's standards" What standards? It is not like Boston where you run a certain time and then qualify. Rather you beat your competition for a Kona slot at a given race or you don't qualify. Depending on your age group there may only be one slot or there might be a handful but if you bring your 9:59 to a race where 25 in your age group went sub 10, you don't go to Kona (barring roll down or lottery). Shane |
| 2013-10-14 11:33 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Dan-L But if anyone wants it enough - it's theirs for the taking. No, that's not true. You can want it more than anything in the world, but if you don't have enough genetics, or money, you're not going. Period. I know there is always the argument of "if you train hard enough you can get there", but I know a guy who wanted to go to Kona more than anything... his entire life was centered around training for Kona (no wife, no kids). His background was not in athletics, and he was somewhat overweight and out of shape when he started doing triathlons. Mind you, he totally turned his life around and became a ripped, lean, racing machine, but Kona never happened. He even hired a coach who stated they can get anyone to Kona with the proper training (OK?!). Still, no Kona. I think he finally ditched the idea and he's now a successful triathlon coach in my area. I do want to say he's a great athlete and absolutely above average at the races and typically wins his AG, but Kona wasn't in the cards for him... even though he wanted it really bad and he tried very hard to get there. |
| 2013-10-14 11:40 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain No that was Hard work! The Emor brothers, and Wharton that used to beat me had the genetics! That's why I was never going to the Olympics, didn't mean I wasn't going to make them work for that win! Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain My glass is half full! I believe I can! You want an athletic background? I was a high level swimmer 25 years ago. I did train and Olympic swimmer 20 years ago. I was in a university study this summer, although I was not well trained I had a pretty good VO2 max. Originally posted by mike761 I think what Dan is trying to say is that a large percentage of triathletes could KQ if the put in the time and effort. That is QUALIFY, not be in the top end of the field. Also at today's standards because nobody knows how much that will change in 2, 4, or 6 years from now. The time and effort is what most do not put into it. Someone earlier stated that he knew many people training 10+ hours a week who were not close to qualifying. To that I say GOOD, if you can KQ on 10 hours a week of training you are genetically exceptional! Most people rationalize their inability to qualify as being genetically inferior instead of looking at the real reasons. When someone puts in the proper training and time to qualify (with a coach) and they still do not qualify then they probably do not have the genetics to do it. However most make that statement before putting in the work. For me I have never done a full IM, because I am a single dad raising 3 children and won't give up the time with them to spend training. However at today's standards if I put in the time I believe I could KQ and would never say I can't based on genetics until I put the effort in. What makes you believe that? Genetics. You're just splitting hairs. We can do that all day. The fact is, back to the original question......anyone who works hard CANNOT get to Kona. There really is no argument there. A few folks will, but they will overwhelmingly be people who have genetic gifts......just like you. Whether YOU get there or not may depend on how hard you work, but to say that's true for everyone is ridiculous. |
| 2013-10-14 11:45 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: The kona goal ? Out of reach ? Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by mike761 Of course you are correct- if everyone was qualifying than the standards would tighten up. That's why I put this into that statement: "Also at today's standards" What standards? It is not like Boston where you run a certain time and then qualify. Rather you beat your competition for a Kona slot at a given race or you don't qualify. Depending on your age group there may only be one slot or there might be a handful but if you bring your 9:59 to a race where 25 in your age group went sub 10, you don't go to Kona (barring roll down or lottery). Shane Maybe a bad choice of words. With today's competitive level might be a better way of saying it. Of coarse you also have to look at the races, some events being much more competitive than others. I do agree that money is a big factor, if your not willing to lay out 10K - 15K minimum your probably not going. If your willing to spend a lot more you may be able to travel to some less competitive events in order to qualify. |
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