General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Marathon before I tackle this IM training?? Rss Feed  
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2013-11-22 5:31 PM

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Subject: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
I am new to the Ironman training and haven't ran a full marathon in about 7 years. I ran five before that and enjoyed
it but was somewhat slow back then. I run 2-4 half marathons each year now and have done the HIM distance
and LOVE it. I don't mind going out on the weekends for a 15-16 mile run but haven't pushed past that distance
in quite some time.

I was contemplating running a spring marathon- not planning on breaking any records but hoping to set a PR since
my previous PR is 4 hours. I run my half marathons around 1:40 now so I shouldn't have a problem breaking 4
hours.

Wondering if you would recommend doing this or if it's too big of a risk for injury, not necessary, etc. Or,
is this something that's important so I can get over my marathon jitters, run the full distance before the IM
and get used to training like that again?

I would run the marathon between February and April and my IM is in Florida in November, 2014. I do have
a history of stress fractures in my feet so that's why I backed off on running 40-50 miles per week.

Thoughts?


2013-11-22 7:54 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
You don't need to do another marathon before starting IM training. I've done exactly one IM, so take this for what its worth. I've also done exactly one marathon, and that was the end of the IM. The key for me is the bike. You will need to ride your bike, then ride your bike, and then when you think you are ready on the bike, ride some more. Joking, a little bit, but you get the idea. If prepping for Marathon, and really given how far apart in time they are, recovering, doesn't get in the way of bike prep, then its probably ok, if you really want to do it. But, a stand alone marathon is much different than the marathon in an IM. Its about getting off the bike ready to run, not about pure run fitness.
2013-11-23 12:31 AM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??

You certainly don't need to, but the timing is right (1 month recovery then ~6 months IM specific training). So the questions I'd focus on are motivation and injury potential. After an A race, I have hard time jumping into another major training cycle (after recovery), but some people obviously don't. For sure, don't underestimated the sustained motivation the IM training will require. On injuries, you mention potential for stress fractures... I think marathon training is about as hard on the body as anything, so I'd be careful there. All that said, if you're motivated for it and are good at self-monitoring, go for it. I ran my first marathon a couple months before starting my first IM training and it worked out quite well for me. 

2013-11-24 9:21 AM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??

Unless you want to run a Mary, I'd skip it. IM Mary vs stand along Mary is huge and completely different.

What is your strength and weakness in s/b/r in tris? I would focus on what is your weakness if that is swimming or biking I'd for sure skip the Mary.

2013-11-24 11:38 PM
in reply to: KathyG

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
Yups, no need to. If you want to it gives you a strong run base, allow 4-5 months to build from your mary to the IM and you are fine unless you get an injury. (I wouldn't do a mary within 3 months of an IM). When I do a winter mary I cross bike 2x and swim 1x per week.
2013-11-25 12:49 AM
in reply to: kmac1346

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
Originally posted by kmac1346

You don't need to do another marathon before starting IM training. I've done exactly one IM, so take this for what its worth. I've also done exactly one marathon, and that was the end of the IM. The key for me is the bike. You will need to ride your bike, then ride your bike, and then when you think you are ready on the bike, ride some more. Joking, a little bit, but you get the idea. If prepping for Marathon, and really given how far apart in time they are, recovering, doesn't get in the way of bike prep, then its probably ok, if you really want to do it. But, a stand alone marathon is much different than the marathon in an IM. Its about getting off the bike ready to run, not about pure run fitness.


I agree with this - longest run I did in IM training was 32km but a ton of runs between 15-20km - and a lot of them were bricks - which I think really helped me on the day nad even then my run was still slower than I'd expected.


2013-11-25 1:51 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??

I agree with what everyone else said. No need to do another marathon and a stand alone is totally different than a IM marathon...............I think this is very individual. There are people who need that mental "I CAN RUN A MARATHON" thing and need to prove they have done the distance...but you have already run one before.  If you want to do it and your body tolerates running go ahead but there is no need really. Most coaches cap the lon gruns at 3 hours in IM training.  Its kind of apples and oranges kind of thing. 

2013-11-25 2:57 PM
in reply to: Socks

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??

Yes this is a very individual thing.  

Being older I  just qualified for AARP  :-(      I also looked at IM with a 2+ year time horizon.

2010 (year before IM)    I ran 4 marathons  and 3 HIM   overkill I'm sure.   But I wanted to make sure my body really knew distance and things would be predictable for me on IM day.      So built the run. 

2011  well um I had to have toe joint surgery end of Feb (IM-WI was Sept of same year)  the surgery/recovery was about a month  maybe 6 weeks of zero running.    I was back in the water 2 weeks after and back on the bike a week after that.   Anyhow.   had a seriously solid running base right before.     Then used the half marathon to build back up  so ran like 4 or 5 of them early in 2011    While I never got my speed quite back.   I KNEW IT.     So I REALLY went after the bike.  I have to agree with an earlier reply.   TRAIN the SNOT out of the bike.     I like to say "its all about the bike"   and well  it really is.  

I know we are both entered onto IM-FLA  this year.   will be fun tracking training with you.   

While understanding the injury risk of RACING the marathon.  I think you SHOULD!   then get on the bike and really train hard on  it.  and keep up with your maintenance long runs.   Its good to know what you have as a base for the run in your back pocket.    

 

 

2013-11-26 6:31 AM
in reply to: oriolepwr

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
Originally posted by oriolepwr

Yes this is a very individual thing.  

Being older I  just qualified for AARP  :-(      I also looked at IM with a 2+ year time horizon.

2010 (year before IM)    I ran 4 marathons  and 3 HIM   overkill I'm sure.   But I wanted to make sure my body really knew distance and things would be predictable for me on IM day.      So built the run. 

2011  well um I had to have toe joint surgery end of Feb (IM-WI was Sept of same year)  the surgery/recovery was about a month  maybe 6 weeks of zero running.    I was back in the water 2 weeks after and back on the bike a week after that.   Anyhow.   had a seriously solid running base right before.     Then used the half marathon to build back up  so ran like 4 or 5 of them early in 2011    While I never got my speed quite back.   I KNEW IT.     So I REALLY went after the bike.  I have to agree with an earlier reply.   TRAIN the SNOT out of the bike.     I like to say "its all about the bike"   and well  it really is.  

I know we are both entered onto IM-FLA  this year.   will be fun tracking training with you.   

While understanding the injury risk of RACING the marathon.  I think you SHOULD!   then get on the bike and really train hard on  it.  and keep up with your maintenance long runs.   Its good to know what you have as a base for the run in your back pocket.    

 

 




This is funny because this takes me back to a different post that was this discussion exactly. I agree 100% about the bike making or breaking the race but I know plenty of others who would disagree. I biked so much before my HIM and came off my bike feeling GREAT on race day. All of the biking paid off for sure! Sure, I ran lots of speed work, tempo, and long runs every other week but nothing too out of the ordinary for me. I did the same on my bike and that was different! Thanks for this info.
2013-11-29 4:30 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
No need to do a marathon. You've done them before. You know what it is like. And, again, an IM marathon is totally different than a stand alone marathon.
2013-12-04 2:09 PM
in reply to: japarker24

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
Originally posted by japarker24

No need to do a marathon. You've done them before. You know what it is like. And, again, an IM marathon is totally different than a stand alone marathon.


I agree. I am in the same situation as the OP in that I have run several marathons and am signed up for my first IM next August. I have a friend that wants me to run a spring marathon with him but since the IM is my A race I declined and will run a spring HM instead. I usually take about 2-3 weeks to fully recover from a marathon and would rather get in some quality training for my IM during that time.


2013-12-04 2:48 PM
in reply to: rick4657

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
I've done 3 IM's and one marathon. I really didn't enjoy the marathon (Amsterdam) and I didn't feel like I got anything out of it. It was a like an IM without any of the good bits!

For me a marathon takes too much out of me and if I was going to do a more beneficial and perhaps equivalent training session then the week I day a Friday off and do back to back centuries on the bike (Friday then Saturday) and then a half marathon training run on Sunday on trails (so less impact on legs) gives me the best bang for buck. I'd do this late Spring for a mid-Summer marathon.
2013-12-22 5:37 PM
in reply to: KathyG

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
Originally posted by KathyG

Unless you want to run a Mary, I'd skip it. IM Mary vs stand along Mary is huge and completely different.

What is your strength and weakness in s/b/r in tris? I would focus on what is your weakness if that is swimming or biking I'd for sure skip the Mary.



I agree 100% with KathyG. especially "IM Mary vs stand alone Mary is huge and completely different." And since you've done some Mary's in the past, you know you can do it and don't have that specific mental hurdle. Focus on your weakness and lengthen out the IM training a bit. Good luck!
2013-12-27 6:14 AM
in reply to: TriRx

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Subject: RE: Marathon before I tackle this IM training??
Need no, but if you want to I dont see a problem. This maybe because I am doing one a little over 4 months before IMWI with buddies from work. I know a few that did it this year and had a pretty strong Ironman performances.

I have talked to tri coaches about this and injuries aside they generally dont like getting off schedule that much. You push long runs and forsake weekend training to do it, you taper, race, recover. Off schedule even if you dont get hurt. I understand the issues with training/ potential injury but I will finish it with my friends anyway. In addition I will do a few more shorter races in 2014. The idea of training toward 1 big A race scares me. So many people get hurt and never make it to start or have something happen on race day and DNF.

Sorry to ramble! I had a mental battle going regarding this question for months before I decided to just do it.
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