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Two sprints in, need help with my swim...
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 2014-04-04 12:41 PM |
 22 |  Subject: Two sprints in, need help with my swim...I am a long time runner who decided to try his hand at spring tri's last year. I did two and want to do a couple more this year. My weakest area is the swim... I'm stuck doing the breaststroke because I can't figure out how to do a crawl successfully. So that's why I'm here!  How does one hammer in the correct way to do a crawl? I don't think I'm a terrible swimmer... I can do my sprint swims in ~21-22 minutes, I just need some help. I don't think I can even get 25 yards in a crawl before I fall apart. What am I missing? Thanks for reading, Bryan |
| 2014-04-04 12:59 PM in reply to: pburgh |
631   | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... start here http://www.swimsmooth.com/ |
| 2014-04-04 1:19 PM in reply to: pburgh |
1159 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by pburgh I am a long time runner who decided to try his hand at spring tri's last year. I did two and want to do a couple more this year. My weakest area is the swim... I'm stuck doing the breaststroke because I can't figure out how to do a crawl successfully. So that's why I'm here! How does one hammer in the correct way to do a crawl? I don't think I'm a terrible swimmer... I can do my sprint swims in ~21-22 minutes, I just need some help. I don't think I can even get 25 yards in a crawl before I fall apart. What am I missing? Thanks for reading, Bryan do you have a local pool that offers swim lessons? not even masters swim - since they do a lot of crawl, but actual one-on-one, or small group swim lessons - like the YMCA or something like that - I think that would be the best place to start |
| 2014-04-04 1:29 PM in reply to: austhokie |
| 22 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by austhokie do you have a local pool that offers swim lessons? not even masters swim - since they do a lot of crawl, but actual one-on-one, or small group swim lessons - like the YMCA or something like that - I think that would be the best place to start You know... that was my next step. I go to the Y every night, so I'll check with the front desk. Thanks |
| 2014-04-04 1:31 PM in reply to: pburgh |
| 631 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... as far a swim lessons. Interview the instructor. IMO most YMCA and American Red Cross are geared to swim survival in the case with adults (and really small kids) get comfortable in the water. You are going to want someone who is going to understand what you want as opposed to just getting you to the point f being able to make it across the pool. Below is a link to Swim America and see if you have any local instructors, I don't know if they technically offer adult classes but I am sure the instructor will be willing to offer private sessions. Most Swim America course are taught by USA Swimming coaches and are going to focus on mechanics. http://www.swimamerica.org/Home.jsp?team=sa |
| 2014-04-04 1:34 PM in reply to: Sidney Porter |
| 22 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by Sidney Porter as far a swim lessons. Interview the instructor. IMO most YMCA and American Red Cross are geared to swim survival in the case with adults (and really small kids) get comfortable in the water. You are going to want someone who is going to understand what you want as opposed to just getting you to the point f being able to make it across the pool. Below is a link to Swim America and see if you have any local instructors, I don't know if they technically offer adult classes but I am sure the instructor will be willing to offer private sessions. Most Swim America course are taught by USA Swimming coaches and are going to focus on mechanics. http://www.swimamerica.org/Home.jsp?team=sa Thank you |
| 2014-04-04 1:35 PM in reply to: Sidney Porter |
| 22 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... I'm in New Hampshire by the way. |
| 2014-04-04 1:38 PM in reply to: Sidney Porter |
| 22 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... To set my expectations (and I know everyone is different)... how much time does it take to get a good crawl stroke down? Is it a world of difference, in terms of the physical requirements, compared to breaststroke? |
| 2014-04-04 3:16 PM in reply to: Sidney Porter |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by Sidney Porter as far a swim lessons. Interview the instructor. IMO most YMCA and American Red Cross are geared to swim survival in the case with adults (and really small kids) get comfortable in the water. You are going to want someone who is going to understand what you want as opposed to just getting you to the point f being able to make it across the pool. Below is a link to Swim America and see if you have any local instructors, I don't know if they technically offer adult classes but I am sure the instructor will be willing to offer private sessions. Most Swim America course are taught by USA Swimming coaches and are going to focus on mechanics. http://www.swimamerica.org/Home.jsp?team=sa Instructors from the YMCA or Red Cross maybe very good, all depends on the instructor you get. A lot of swim team members used to do this as a side job, I assume they still do. |
| 2014-04-04 3:18 PM in reply to: pburgh |
| 631 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by pburgh To set my expectations (and I know everyone is different)... how much time does it take to get a good crawl stroke down? Is it a world of difference, in terms of the physical requirements, compared to breaststroke? Proper breaststroke is much more specialized and phsically and mechanically more difficult. |
| 2014-04-04 3:20 PM in reply to: pburgh |
Member 1004 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... My situation is much the same. I was a runner to turned to triathlons. I have been swimming for two years and still am not very good at it. I'm slow but I can swim without stopping. I've bought dvd's, watched youtube, check advice here, taken a master's swim class and it all has helped incrementally. It's frustrating that the progress is so slow but I'm either not a natural or that's the nature of the beast. It helps if you swim at least three times a week. I find the breaststroke takes quit a bit less effort at a slow pace but freestyle is better if you want any amount of speed. |
| 2014-04-04 3:53 PM in reply to: Sidney Porter |
Pro 5169 Burbs | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by Sidney Porter Originally posted by pburgh To set my expectations (and I know everyone is different)... how much time does it take to get a good crawl stroke down? Is it a world of difference, in terms of the physical requirements, compared to breaststroke? Proper breaststroke is much more specialized and phsically and mechanically more difficult. key word being proper! |
| 2014-04-04 4:31 PM in reply to: pburgh |
Veteran 247 Irvine | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... So, like it or not, live lessons are the way to go.... I too came from a running background when I started doing triathlons in mid-2011. I resisted "paying" for lessons as I figured I could teach myself by reading about technique, watching videos and practicing. So I did improve, to a point. I finally broke down and hired the swim coach for my tri team about 3 weeks before Ironman Los Cabos (this past Sunday). I had just 4 lessons, all one-on-one. Knowing I had a major event in a few weeks, she just focused on just a few things that I could adapt quickly. Results from my 4 sessions: 1. Dropped my 100 yard all-out effort (without flip turns) from 1:30 to 1:19 2. Dropped my best 500 yard effort from about 8:40ish to 7:47 3. Did my Full IM swim in 1:03, my previous IM swim had been 1:14 I'm certainly still not a top swimmer, but I can go out confidently near the front as I did at IMLC and turn in a top 20% or better time now! I wish I'd gotten lessons when I started as I'm now working to "unlearn" some bad habits. Swimming is all technique...I could only improve my technique so much on my own, the rest was trying to muscle through it. I'm now swimming faster but also more efficiently. Hire a good instructor for some one-on-one lessons! |
| 2014-04-04 5:12 PM in reply to: pburgh |
| 1660 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... As an ex-pure runner as well, turned triathlete, I will warn you in advance-
Prepare for some serious frustration and serious confusion about swimming freestyle. Your solid running background will give you nothing in terms of having an edge in terms of learning swimming. Being stuck as a BBBBOP swimmer for almost a year and half myself before making real progress was one of the most frustrating things I've done in sport, especially since running was already there and cycling at a reasonably fast clip was also very easy given the running background.
It's worth the effort to learn though - opens up a whole new world of sport there. And also, you don't structure workouts in swimming remotely like you do in running, so forget about just going to the pool and banging out like 60 mins straight of moderate pace swimming (lower yield than intervals in swimming).
Good luck! |
| 2014-04-09 3:11 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
| 22 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Thank you, all, for the feedback. I'm going to try the local Y classes and see if that gets me going. If not, I'll try another source of lessons. |
| 2014-04-09 3:32 PM in reply to: pburgh |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by pburgh I don't think I'm a terrible swimmer... I can do my sprint swims in ~21-22 minutes, I just need some help. I don't think I can even get 25 yards in a crawl before I fall apart. What am I missing? Thanks for reading, Bryan This is not meant to be offensive but a 21-22 minute sprint swim means you're a terrible swimmer... unless the sprint swim is 1000+ yards but I'm assuming a 500-800 yard or meter swim. You need to have a realistic outlook on your current swim ability. It's like thinking you're not a terrible marathon runner but ran a seven hour marathon. You'd be a terrible marathon runner. That's the negative. The positive is the upside potential. Train hard and take some swim lessons from a reputable swim coach who is adept at coaching adult onset swimmers or children. Yes, kid swim coaches (as in those that specialize in teaching children) make good adult onset swim coaches. |
| 2014-04-09 4:11 PM in reply to: #4976699 |
Member 1083 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... I think that's a little harsh. Many new adult triathlon swimmers start with top speed being 2:00/100 (myself included). So if its an 800 yd swim that's 16 minutes. My first ows was 400 yds and I did about half of it catching my breath kicking on my back. I think it was at least 10 minutes. Good for the OP for getting it done and looking for ways to improve. Find an instructor and swim as close to daily as you can. Swimming is heavily technique dependent so instruction and frequent repetition is key. Good luck and have fun! |
| 2014-04-09 4:59 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 1473 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... I agree with G-Man, and I don't think he is being too harsh, just an honest assessment . You may be able to "swim", but you can't SWIM. I recommend you get lessons for proper form and technique, and join a Masters group if you really want to learn to SWIM. Sure you will start out in the first lane, but you will get faster. And finally you need to get wet. Often. The swim is my weakest disicipine as well. I am coming back after taking a year and a half off, and I need to follow the advice I have just given you myself to get back up to speed,and achieve my goals for 2014 and 2105.Nice work on your two sprints now get in the pool!I would wish you good luck, but no luck is needed. Just put in the work. Edited by AV842 2014-04-09 5:02 PM |
| 2014-04-09 5:07 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 928 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Don't forget that 21-22 minutes is doing breaststroke-- that's faster than I can do breaststroke. Certainly if you learn proper front crawl technique you'll be able to go quite a bit faster. Edited by jennifer_runs 2014-04-09 5:25 PM |
| 2014-04-09 8:57 PM in reply to: AV842 |
| 471 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by AV842 I agree with G-Man, and I don't think he is being too harsh, just an honest assessment . You may be able to "swim", but you can't SWIM. I recommend you get lessons for proper form and technique, and join a Masters group if you really want to learn to SWIM. Sure you will start out in the first lane, but you will get faster. And finally you need to get wet. Often. The swim is my weakest disicipine as well. I am coming back after taking a year and a half off, and I need to follow the advice I have just given you myself to get back up to speed,and achieve my goals for 2014 and 2105.Nice work on your two sprints now get in the pool!I would wish you good luck, but no luck is needed. Just put in the work. Yup. Get lessons. |
| 2014-04-10 7:41 AM in reply to: miamiamy |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by miamiamy I think that's a little harsh. Many new adult triathlon swimmers start with top speed being 2:00/100 (myself included). So if its an 800 yd swim that's 16 minutes. And the OP was far slower than a 2:00/100 pace. My guess is 3:00-4:00/100. I just wanted to point out the OP's self assessment of "I don't think I'm a terrible swimmer" was completely unrealistic. He is a terrible swimmer and needs to realize that to get better. It wasn't meant as a slight to him. We all had to start somewhere but let's be realistic about it. He was probably twice as slow as the average swimmer at those races. Let's say the average bike speed was 18mph. If the OP said he went 9mph and claimed he wasn't a terrible cyclist, what would you think??? Same thing. A 21-22 minute sprint swim means there's some serious swim deficiencies in both technique, comfort and fitness. |
| 2014-04-10 9:20 AM in reply to: pburgh |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... I got a book. Yes, it was Total Immersion. I have found that as an adult, I can read something and then implement a lot of what the book tells me with good results. TI took me from total non swimmer to completing events. I have spent a lot of time swimming in the last six years and have gone from someone who dreaded the pool to loving my swim sessions. I have taken lessons. I have gone to masters. I have gone to clinics. I have had to unlearn a lot of Total Immersion but I totally credit that program with getting me in the water and capable of finishing my swims in the first couple years. Swimming is a lot of work. More than you can ever imagine. And for most of us, the progress is maddeningly slow. After your initial gains you might work for a year to take 3 seconds off of your hundred. Not an instant gratification sport but well worth the dedication. And in case anyone wondered, the guy who posted about his 1:19 hundred and 1:03 IM swim. That is not typical or normal. Most people who pick up swimming as an adult will work for years to see those paces. Good luck. Remember, playing around in the pool is fun |
| 2014-05-20 8:16 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 22 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by pburgh I don't think I'm a terrible swimmer... I can do my sprint swims in ~21-22 minutes, I just need some help. I don't think I can even get 25 yards in a crawl before I fall apart. What am I missing? Thanks for reading, Bryan This is not meant to be offensive but a 21-22 minute sprint swim means you're a terrible swimmer... unless the sprint swim is 1000+ yards but I'm assuming a 500-800 yard or meter swim. You need to have a realistic outlook on your current swim ability. It's like thinking you're not a terrible marathon runner but ran a seven hour marathon. You'd be a terrible marathon runner. That's the negative. The positive is the upside potential. Train hard and take some swim lessons from a reputable swim coach who is adept at coaching adult onset swimmers or children. Yes, kid swim coaches (as in those that specialize in teaching children) make good adult onset swim coaches. Sorry, that was a 1/2 mile time in terrible lake conditions (Lake Champlain with out of the ordinary swells). My 1/3 mile time is high 12's. A small update, I've been in the pool the last few weeks, working on freestyle. Getting better, SLOWLY. I haven't found lessons yet, but I have been reading a lot, watching videos, etc. I'm still on the lookout for a coach. Edited by pburgh 2014-05-20 8:19 AM |
| 2014-05-20 12:53 PM in reply to: pburgh |
| Richland, Washington | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... Originally posted by pburgh I am a long time runner who decided to try his hand at spring tri's last year. I did two and want to do a couple more this year. My weakest area is the swim... I'm stuck doing the breaststroke because I can't figure out how to do a crawl successfully. So that's why I'm here! How does one hammer in the correct way to do a crawl? I don't think I'm a terrible swimmer... I can do my sprint swims in ~21-22 minutes, I just need some help. I don't think I can even get 25 yards in a crawl before I fall apart. What am I missing? Thanks for reading, Bryan Easiest way for me to help you is if you posted a video... I'll give you some advice |
| 2014-05-20 4:36 PM in reply to: pburgh |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: Two sprints in, need help with my swim... I like updates, thanks. I would suggest also checking out some youtube videos. But the most important thing is practice, practice, practice. It's one of those sports where the volume can't be faked no matter how athletically gifted you are. |
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