How important is the kick?
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2014-04-14 8:43 PM |
Member 60 | Subject: How important is the kick? So I've been under the impression that as a triathlete we try to use minimal effort with our legs while swimming to save them for the next 2 parts of the race. I usually only kick enough to try and keep good body posture in the water. But I've been looking at some of the BT plans and they have kick drills built into most of the swims.. Will this help? |
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2014-04-14 8:48 PM in reply to: SR2518 |
2014-04-14 8:52 PM in reply to: SR2518 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? You do want to develop a bit of a kick, but it should not dominate your time. While we do kick with more minimal effort in a race, it still needs to be strong enough to do something. In order to accomplish both of those there needs to be some development. It's been debated quite a bit as to how much, but would think one would want to at least be able to get through those kick sets without being trashed. |
2014-04-14 8:53 PM in reply to: SR2518 |
Richland, Washington | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? I use a 2 beat kick for all my distance swimming.. that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Why? I simply don't need more than that to propel me. In my eyes, I use my swim to warm up my legs, but not tire them out. Yes, during workouts I will do kick drills, but workouts and races are 2 very different things. It's as simple as that. |
2014-04-14 8:56 PM in reply to: SR2518 |
Extreme Veteran 680 Acworth, GA | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by SR2518 Do what feels comfortable for you. You will get a lot of different opinions. So I've been under the impression that as a triathlete we try to use minimal effort with our legs while swimming to save them for the next 2 parts of the race. I usually only kick enough to try and keep good body posture in the water. But I've been looking at some of the BT plans and they have kick drills built into most of the swims.. Will this help? For me personally, I kick enough to keep body position and rotation. I have found that for me, kicking jacks my HR, which is not how I like to swim. I haven't considered the potential leg fatigue, I am more focused about keeping the HR in check. Maybe if I ever did kick drills, my HR would improve, I am not willing to spend the time or effort to figure it out. |
2014-04-14 9:17 PM in reply to: SR2518 |
1660 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? As an off-topic, but relevant aside -
Kicking or no kicking, it is definitely worth at least making sure you CAN swim with no-kick (like banded at the ankles) just for a technique check, to eliminate any imbalances in your pull that will cause a scissor kick. It's worth doing that even if you prefer to kick fairly hard during your normal swims.
Most swim teams do some sets of no-kick / paddle pull sets, which reinforce exactly this clean pull, with no kick to offset any stroke error. |
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2014-04-14 9:31 PM in reply to: SR2518 |
1055 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? IMO. . . If you have time to do kick sets. . . great. If you are only getting to the pool 2-3 times a week, don't bother with them. You're time is probably better spent swimming. Of course, I come from the less drills and more swimming camp. |
2014-04-14 9:39 PM in reply to: ziggie204 |
471 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? I'm a FOP swimmer and I only really have a gentle kick, unless it's a sprint. Not saying that it's right, I probably should kick harder, but it's possible to be quick and not be kicking hard. |
2014-04-14 9:48 PM in reply to: SR2518 |
471 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by SR2518 So I've been under the impression that as a triathlete we try to use minimal effort with our legs while swimming to save them for the next 2 parts of the race. You don't really tire your legs out kicking, unless you're going flat out and even then I doubt your legs would be tired. |
2014-04-14 10:56 PM in reply to: 0 |
Richland, Washington | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by zedzded Originally posted by SR2518 So I've been under the impression that as a triathlete we try to use minimal effort with our legs while swimming to save them for the next 2 parts of the race. You don't really tire your legs out kicking, unless you're going flat out and even then I doubt your legs would be tired. I would strongly disagree with this statement. You can easily tire out your legs kicking. Next time you're in the pool.... try to kick a 500 with every other 50 descending. Tell me how you feel. The mentality in swimming long distances is EFFICIENCY. For me, 2.4 miles is not really a long distance... but the rest of the day is physically taxing. It is much more efficient to maintain a steady, slower kick than it is to maintain a rapid kick. It is best to practice kicking during a workout, just like it is beneficial to focus part of your workout with a pull buoy and paddles. Utilize your upper body on the swim, use your feet to maintain buoyancy and efficiency. This is my experience coming from 18 years of competitive swimming both in a pool and open water, along with multiple 20+ mile open water swims. Edited by Swimaway 2014-04-14 10:57 PM |
2014-04-14 11:03 PM in reply to: Swimaway |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? The fast swimmers in a sprint/Oly, and especially a draft legal event, respectfully ask that the rest of you don't kick. That is all. |
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2014-04-15 7:12 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? The definitive answer is if you are in the 45-50 year AG you should not kick at all. you should simply float in your wet suit hoping the wind or current delivers you to the swim out before the cut off time! |
2014-04-15 8:05 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by mike761 The definitive answer is if you are in the 45-50 year AG you should not kick at all. you should simply float in your wet suit hoping the wind or current delivers you to the swim out before the cut off time! I would like to extend this to the 25-29 age group as well. Kicking is part of swimming. Would you run without swinging your arms because you want to save them for the swim? (pretend the swim was after the run ) |
2014-04-15 8:20 AM in reply to: SR2518 |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? For me it is: Wetsuit = kick hard the first 100 or so to get out in front then super gentle kick with occasional harder effort to pass or if I feel like it. No wetsuit = kick hard the first 100 or so to get out in front then nice, steady kick with occasional harder effort to pass or if I feel like it. |
2014-04-15 8:38 AM in reply to: ejshowers |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by ejshowers For me it is: Wetsuit = kick hard the first 100 or so to get out in front then super gentle kick with occasional harder effort to pass or if I feel like it. No wetsuit = kick hard the first 100 or so to get out in front then nice, steady kick with occasional harder effort to pass or if I feel like it. I absolutely love this simple, spot-on. How important is the kick in terms of stroke technique? Super important. Critical. How important is it to kick hard during the entire swim portion of long-course triathlon? It isn't. |
2014-04-15 8:41 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Member 60 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by mike761 The definitive answer is if you are in the 45-50 year AG you should not kick at all. you should simply float in your wet suit hoping the wind or current delivers you to the swim out before the cut off time! I would like to extend this to the 25-29 age group as well. Kicking is part of swimming. Would you run without swinging your arms because you want to save them for the swim? (pretend the swim was after the run ) Haha.. ok this is funny.. however you don't have to worry about me fighting for a spot on the podium if thats what your getting at. But I would say a closer comparison would be do you ever practice swinging your arms while standing still or walking to make yourself a better runner? Of course not.. even though its part of running. |
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2014-04-15 8:51 AM in reply to: SR2518 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by SR2518 Originally posted by dmiller5 Haha.. ok this is funny.. however you don't have to worry about me fighting for a spot on the podium if thats what your getting at. But I would say a closer comparison would be do you ever practice swinging your arms while standing still or walking to make yourself a better runner? Of course not.. even though its part of running. Originally posted by mike761 The definitive answer is if you are in the 45-50 year AG you should not kick at all. you should simply float in your wet suit hoping the wind or current delivers you to the swim out before the cut off time! I would like to extend this to the 25-29 age group as well. Kicking is part of swimming. Would you run without swinging your arms because you want to save them for the swim? (pretend the swim was after the run ) Indeed. The difference is that the WAY you swing your arms (provided you keep 'em out of the way of your legs) is completely unimportant in running. To get back to your original question, though--1. by the way, indeed, it's not about saving them for the bike and run, it's a different issue entirely, namely 2. Using your kick well as part of / in order to set up the rest of the stroke. Kicking should be like everything else in a swim workout: there should be a reason you're doing it, and if you're beginner to intermediate, it should be done with a direct application to what part it plays in your whole swim technique. |
2014-04-15 8:54 AM in reply to: SR2518 |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by SR2518 Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by mike761 The definitive answer is if you are in the 45-50 year AG you should not kick at all. you should simply float in your wet suit hoping the wind or current delivers you to the swim out before the cut off time! I would like to extend this to the 25-29 age group as well. Kicking is part of swimming. Would you run without swinging your arms because you want to save them for the swim? (pretend the swim was after the run ) Haha.. ok this is funny.. however you don't have to worry about me fighting for a spot on the podium if thats what your getting at. But I would say a closer comparison would be do you ever practice swinging your arms while standing still or walking to make yourself a better runner? Of course not.. even though its part of running. If standing still swinging my arms was going to improve my running stride or speed, then yes I would. Nothing/ nobody has ever show that it would do anything for the run. However kicking drills and a good kick has been proven time and time again to help your swim. unless of course you are in the 45-50 AG then it does not |
2014-04-15 9:09 AM in reply to: SR2518 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Originally posted by SR2518 Originally posted by dmiller5 Haha.. ok this is funny.. however you don't have to worry about me fighting for a spot on the podium if thats what your getting at. But I would say a closer comparison would be do you ever practice swinging your arms while standing still or walking to make yourself a better runner? Of course not.. even though its part of running. Originally posted by mike761 The definitive answer is if you are in the 45-50 year AG you should not kick at all. you should simply float in your wet suit hoping the wind or current delivers you to the swim out before the cut off time! I would like to extend this to the 25-29 age group as well. Kicking is part of swimming. Would you run without swinging your arms because you want to save them for the swim? (pretend the swim was after the run ) Uh......I've watched runners sit on the floor and propel themselves simply by swining their arms. It's a drill that helps teach and visualize the benefit of arm drive in running.....especially at distances of 1 mile or less, or anytime in a race that pace needs to quicken. Run with no arms and see what happens. Yes, what you do with your arms can make you a better runner.. It's actually not a bad analogy to the kick in the swim. |
2014-04-15 9:25 AM in reply to: SR2518 |
over a barrier | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? Do you do kick sets and go nowhere or even backwards? Yes? You need kick sets and you need to work on kicking from the hips and ditching the 'runners kick' . This where you can practice the form. A lot of your drag in swimming comes from dragging your back end through the water. A well timed kick (6 beat or 2 beat) will help keep your legs at the surface and help keep your stroke 'on time' You don't see people with their chest dragging and legs at the surface. I get as hard as I need to maintain timing and form. |
2014-04-15 9:52 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? For those who think that arms don't matter while running. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L27nvy3-B-4 ETA: Upper body position for knowledge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sttylHjpm94 X Edited by dmiller5 2014-04-15 9:53 AM |
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2014-04-15 10:09 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? If you don't believe a premier coach, maybe you will believe a premier runner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgn5dqtjQHk
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2014-04-15 10:10 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? The fast runners in a sprint/oly respectfully request you do not use your arms while running. That is all. |
2014-04-15 11:07 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: How important is the kick? |
2014-04-15 1:38 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: How important is the kick?
I have been getting coached in my swim two times a week for the past few months. Before this I have just figured out the swimming part on my own. I had the same though, why work on my kick and kick hard when they have to pedal 112 miles and run a marathon. I thought, kill the arms in the swim as they are just going to be hanging out for the next 112 miles. However my coach was good enough to make me kick anyway and now I really appreciate it. I figure I will train like a swimmer and work on my kick so I have a good strong kick available to me. I will not use 100% of that kick in my IM but it will be there, and 50% of my kick now is a lot more than 50% of where my kick was when I started. It is a tool, work on it, have it in the bag if needed and then use it wisely in a race. |
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