General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Di2 and derailier hanger Rss Feed  
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2015-07-24 9:10 AM

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Subject: Di2 and derailier hanger

Has anyone had an experience of breaking the rear derailleur hanger with Di2?  We have broke 2 now, both times when just spinning up a hill in small front chain ring and large rear cog......the cassette was different both times. Once was 11-23 (race wheels) and once was 11-25 (training wheels).  The only common factor was a steep hill and where the chain was positioned.  There was an audible CLICK,CLICK,CLICK last night before it snapped.  I was riding next to him when it happened and could clearly hear it.  Neither time did it happen during shifting.



2015-07-24 10:06 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
no experience since its out of my price range. However you have only had the Di2 for a year or two correct?

Sounds like a manufacturing or design flaw. Is it still under warranty?
2015-07-24 10:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

Originally posted by mike761 no experience since its out of my price range. However you have only had the Di2 for a year or two correct? Sounds like a manufacturing or design flaw. Is it still under warranty?

Yeah, it should be, so we'll see what happens when he takes it in today for the 2nd time.  The LBS takes really good care of him/us so it's one of those deals where no matter what happens we aren't going to get into a beef with them, just kind of wondering if this is a thing with Di2, or if maybe it's user error, or if maybe something got tweaked in all the airline travel that could be causing this to happen.

ETA - and the thing that's REALLY out of your price range, and mine, is a 17 year old kid who thinks his high end bicycle is some sort of kamikaze machine meant to be ridden over anything, anywhere, any time.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-24 10:18 AM
2015-07-24 10:37 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761 no experience since its out of my price range. However you have only had the Di2 for a year or two correct? Sounds like a manufacturing or design flaw. Is it still under warranty?

Yeah, it should be, so we'll see what happens when he takes it in today for the 2nd time.  The LBS takes really good care of him/us so it's one of those deals where no matter what happens we aren't going to get into a beef with them, just kind of wondering if this is a thing with Di2, or if maybe it's user error, or if maybe something got tweaked in all the airline travel that could be causing this to happen.

ETA - and the thing that's REALLY out of your price range, and mine, is a 17 year old kid who thinks his high end bicycle is some sort of kamikaze machine meant to be ridden over anything, anywhere, any time.




Since the pro's ride these and you say it snapped, I would tend to believe they have some manufacturing issues.

As for the 17 year old- I have one of those, and yes he's out of my price range
2015-07-24 11:27 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
I have broken a couple of dérailleur hangers on my mountain bike but it always involved rocks, roots or some other impact and usually a crash. There is no way the hanger should be breaking when riding despite cross gearing, hammering at 1kW or anything else. I do run rough roads on my road bike, bunny hop and at 180lbs I am not really a lightweight - I have never broken a dérailleur hanger on the road bike. I have also run support as a tech at a large 4000+rider charity event and have never seen a broken hanger

I know that you used to be able to buy beefier dérailleur hangers but then you are eliminating the purposely "weak link" and instead transferring the forces to either the dérailleur itself or ever worse the frame. I would be very hesitant to go this route unless the hanger itself is ridiculously wimpy.

I would check that the frame itself is straight at the mount. If it is slightly tweeked then the tech could be bending the hanger to get the derailieur straight but also weakening the hanger in the process.
2015-07-24 11:47 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
I'm running 260 lbs and have an Ultegra DI2 setup. I'm doing 2+ hour rides as my long rides now, mixed hills and flats. Never an issue.


2015-07-24 12:07 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

I did a week ago but only because I crashed... or rather because my derailleur got tangled in someone's wheel in a crash.

I have lots of friends with Di2 as well as my SO and as far as I know they haven't broken their hangers more often than others.

2015-07-24 12:35 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
I have about 4000 miles on a DuraAce Di2 without issue. Although I'm rarely in that gearing, I do lots of hill repeats, both seated and out of the saddle. The one thing I never do is shift when out of the saddle on steep hills. I'll sit for a second then shift then get back out. I don't know where I heard that, but its stuck with me. But I have shifted many times out of the saddle on flats or moderate elevation. This sounds strange to have it happen two times now. My guess is it was tweaked in travel. But you always want to ease into your shifting patterns. I've seen guys in crits hammering big gears and dropping it down and everything is fine. A bit of bad luck perhaps also. But Trek's rears are a bit soft and mine is fine. I don't baby it like some people. Please post after your LBS explains their theory.
2015-07-24 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

Thanks for the comments.......we'll see.  My guess is that the derailleur itself may have gotten bent slightly on one of the flights to a race.  Our LBS is going to do some spec work on the derailleur to see if that's the case before they just put a new hanger on.  As I said, it has only happened when the derailleur is all the way to the left so something is obviously torqueing it there.   Both times it happened the derailleur just snapped.  I don't see how the carbon frame could be bent without any obvious signs of damage.....but I guess anything is possible.  I'll let you know what they come up with.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-24 12:38 PM
2015-07-24 12:54 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

I had this happen to me a couple weeks ago--same thing climbing when it happened.  I had assumed it was because my bike had fallen over when we stopped  a few km before. 

2015-07-24 12:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

Originally posted by IronOx

I had this happen to me a couple weeks ago--same thing climbing when it happened.  I had assumed it was because my bike had fallen over when we stopped  a few km before. 

We were climbing.....but it was a warm up.....really just a spin up a hill.  Surely not enough pressure to torque anything that much. 

\Were you in the same gearing configuration?



Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-24 12:57 PM


2015-07-24 1:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

To be honest, I don't know for sure.  I was really just spinning as well, not climbing a mountain or anything.  I wouldn't have thought that much torque here either.  It was partway up a 6-7% grade hill; I was definitely in the small chainring, and close to the biggest cog (12-25).  

ETA: which generation Di2?



Edited by IronOx 2015-07-24 1:29 PM
2015-07-24 1:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

Originally posted by IronOx

To be honest, I don't know for sure.  I was really just spinning as well, not climbing a mountain or anything.  I wouldn't have thought that much torque here either.  It was partway up a 6-7% grade hill; I was definitely in the small chainring, and close to the biggest cog (12-25).  

ETA: which generation Di2?

Whatever the newest Ultegra is......which is probably about the same as first generation Dura Ace, right?  I haven't taken the time to learn much about Di2.  Mechanical derailleurs I can do, but I don't know much about his new gear other then I like riding it from time to time. 



Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-24 1:56 PM
2015-07-24 3:10 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

The end result is that we still aren't sure what the problem is.  The derailleur is going back to the manufacturer and our LBS put a "new" derailleur from a wrecked trade-in on for now....or maybe forever, we'll see how this goes.  The mechanic felt like the bad derailleur may be slightly bent but that it also seemed to have some internal issues that he felt could be responsible but he couldn't duplicate the problem in the shop, although it did make the loud click a few times. The frame where the hanger attaches does not appear to have any issues. We're going to work forward on the warranty issue and see what happens.  If it's bent I'd say it's our fault through airline handling, if it's internal then I'd say they'll cover it. They also threw a new chain on it and will send the old chain off with the derailleur.  They sent Jr. on his way without a charge.

The kid has Jr. Elite Nationals next weekend, and really couldn't be without his bike while he gets ready, so once again a good relationship with our LBS pays off.  If you want great service, support your local shop and buy from them whenever possible (it almost ALWAYS is if you give them a chance)......and buy them a lunch or two, or a few 12 packs.  It'll come back to you in spades.

2015-07-24 4:18 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
Originally posted by Left Brain

The end result is that we still aren't sure what the problem is.  The derailleur is going back to the manufacturer and our LBS put a "new" derailleur from a wrecked trade-in on for now....or maybe forever, we'll see how this goes.  The mechanic felt like the bad derailleur may be slightly bent but that it also seemed to have some internal issues that he felt could be responsible but he couldn't duplicate the problem in the shop, although it did make the loud click a few times. The frame where the hanger attaches does not appear to have any issues. We're going to work forward on the warranty issue and see what happens.  If it's bent I'd say it's our fault through airline handling, if it's internal then I'd say they'll cover it. They also threw a new chain on it and will send the old chain off with the derailleur.  They sent Jr. on his way without a charge.

The kid has Jr. Elite Nationals next weekend, and really couldn't be without his bike while he gets ready, so once again a good relationship with our LBS pays off.  If you want great service, support your local shop and buy from them whenever possible (it almost ALWAYS is if you give them a chance)......and buy them a lunch or two, or a few 12 packs.  It'll come back to you in spades.





In gear closet to wheel ?

click click click = derailleur on spokes ?

any sign of contact with spokes ?
2015-07-24 5:20 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

The end result is that we still aren't sure what the problem is.  The derailleur is going back to the manufacturer and our LBS put a "new" derailleur from a wrecked trade-in on for now....or maybe forever, we'll see how this goes.  The mechanic felt like the bad derailleur may be slightly bent but that it also seemed to have some internal issues that he felt could be responsible but he couldn't duplicate the problem in the shop, although it did make the loud click a few times. The frame where the hanger attaches does not appear to have any issues. We're going to work forward on the warranty issue and see what happens.  If it's bent I'd say it's our fault through airline handling, if it's internal then I'd say they'll cover it. They also threw a new chain on it and will send the old chain off with the derailleur.  They sent Jr. on his way without a charge.

The kid has Jr. Elite Nationals next weekend, and really couldn't be without his bike while he gets ready, so once again a good relationship with our LBS pays off.  If you want great service, support your local shop and buy from them whenever possible (it almost ALWAYS is if you give them a chance)......and buy them a lunch or two, or a few 12 packs.  It'll come back to you in spades.

In gear closet to wheel ? click click click = derailleur on spokes ? any sign of contact with spokes ?

HA! 

I just read this to Jr. and he looked at me like I had two heads and said, "duh, yeah, what do you think caused it to snap off?"   Apparently, between him and the bike shop and me, I'm the only one who didn't get the memo.   

I wasn't there the first time it happened.....but he says it was the same thing.  He said that the only mystery is why it happened only every so often since he's been in that gearing other times and it didn't happen.



2015-07-24 5:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

The end result is that we still aren't sure what the problem is.  The derailleur is going back to the manufacturer and our LBS put a "new" derailleur from a wrecked trade-in on for now....or maybe forever, we'll see how this goes.  The mechanic felt like the bad derailleur may be slightly bent but that it also seemed to have some internal issues that he felt could be responsible but he couldn't duplicate the problem in the shop, although it did make the loud click a few times. The frame where the hanger attaches does not appear to have any issues. We're going to work forward on the warranty issue and see what happens.  If it's bent I'd say it's our fault through airline handling, if it's internal then I'd say they'll cover it. They also threw a new chain on it and will send the old chain off with the derailleur.  They sent Jr. on his way without a charge.

The kid has Jr. Elite Nationals next weekend, and really couldn't be without his bike while he gets ready, so once again a good relationship with our LBS pays off.  If you want great service, support your local shop and buy from them whenever possible (it almost ALWAYS is if you give them a chance)......and buy them a lunch or two, or a few 12 packs.  It'll come back to you in spades.

In gear closet to wheel ? click click click = derailleur on spokes ? any sign of contact with spokes ?

HA! 

I just read this to Jr. and he looked at me like I had two heads and said, "duh, yeah, what do you think caused it to snap off?"   Apparently, between him and the bike shop and me, I'm the only one who didn't get the memo.   

I wasn't there the first time it happened.....but he says it was the same thing.  He said that the only mystery is why it happened only every so often since he's been in that gearing other times and it didn't happen.




My question would be "if you knew the click click click was the spokes rubbing, why the f' didn't you stop ?"

To answer his question, maybe the wheel isn't perfectly aligned ? Sounds like the LBS needs to check the limiters, no ?

I hope he didn't damage his Zipp spokes in the process :-)



Edited by marcag 2015-07-24 5:31 PM
2015-07-24 5:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

The end result is that we still aren't sure what the problem is.  The derailleur is going back to the manufacturer and our LBS put a "new" derailleur from a wrecked trade-in on for now....or maybe forever, we'll see how this goes.  The mechanic felt like the bad derailleur may be slightly bent but that it also seemed to have some internal issues that he felt could be responsible but he couldn't duplicate the problem in the shop, although it did make the loud click a few times. The frame where the hanger attaches does not appear to have any issues. We're going to work forward on the warranty issue and see what happens.  If it's bent I'd say it's our fault through airline handling, if it's internal then I'd say they'll cover it. They also threw a new chain on it and will send the old chain off with the derailleur.  They sent Jr. on his way without a charge.

The kid has Jr. Elite Nationals next weekend, and really couldn't be without his bike while he gets ready, so once again a good relationship with our LBS pays off.  If you want great service, support your local shop and buy from them whenever possible (it almost ALWAYS is if you give them a chance)......and buy them a lunch or two, or a few 12 packs.  It'll come back to you in spades.

In gear closet to wheel ? click click click = derailleur on spokes ? any sign of contact with spokes ?

HA! 

I just read this to Jr. and he looked at me like I had two heads and said, "duh, yeah, what do you think caused it to snap off?"   Apparently, between him and the bike shop and me, I'm the only one who didn't get the memo.   

I wasn't there the first time it happened.....but he says it was the same thing.  He said that the only mystery is why it happened only every so often since he's been in that gearing other times and it didn't happen.

My question would be "if you knew the click click click was the spokes rubbing, why the f' didn't you stop ?" To answer his question, maybe the wheel isn't perfectly aligned ? Sounds like the LBS needs to check the limiters, no ? I hope he didn't damage his Zipp spokes in the process :-)

I think, basically, my mouth has said the words, "why the F didn't didn't you stop doing that" so many times in his young life that I am no longer able to make my mouth work in that way. LOL

He was riding his training wheel........but one day I'll tell you the story of how he rode his Zipps about 3 miles on a flat, and possibly the last mile just on the rim itself until he practically shredded it.  I can't say I was actually saying those above words in a rational tone in that particular instance......but he just kind of looked at me really weird and said, "what? I won". 

2015-07-24 8:55 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
Originally posted by Left Brain

ETA - and the thing that's REALLY out of your price range, and mine, is a 17 year old kid who thinks his high end bicycle is some sort of kamikaze machine meant to be ridden over anything, anywhere, any time.




Hah, that's exactly what's supposed to happen at that age! For me it wasn't bikes, but omg the stupid things I did with my car. Looking back, I'm just glad I didn't kill or paralyze myself.

2015-07-27 7:13 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

The end result is that we still aren't sure what the problem is.  The derailleur is going back to the manufacturer and our LBS put a "new" derailleur from a wrecked trade-in on for now....or maybe forever, we'll see how this goes.  The mechanic felt like the bad derailleur may be slightly bent but that it also seemed to have some internal issues that he felt could be responsible but he couldn't duplicate the problem in the shop, although it did make the loud click a few times. The frame where the hanger attaches does not appear to have any issues. We're going to work forward on the warranty issue and see what happens.  If it's bent I'd say it's our fault through airline handling, if it's internal then I'd say they'll cover it. They also threw a new chain on it and will send the old chain off with the derailleur.  They sent Jr. on his way without a charge.

The kid has Jr. Elite Nationals next weekend, and really couldn't be without his bike while he gets ready, so once again a good relationship with our LBS pays off.  If you want great service, support your local shop and buy from them whenever possible (it almost ALWAYS is if you give them a chance)......and buy them a lunch or two, or a few 12 packs.  It'll come back to you in spades.

In gear closet to wheel ? click click click = derailleur on spokes ? any sign of contact with spokes ?

HA! 

I just read this to Jr. and he looked at me like I had two heads and said, "duh, yeah, what do you think caused it to snap off?"   Apparently, between him and the bike shop and me, I'm the only one who didn't get the memo.   

I wasn't there the first time it happened.....but he says it was the same thing.  He said that the only mystery is why it happened only every so often since he's been in that gearing other times and it didn't happen.




My question would be "if you knew the click click click was the spokes rubbing, why the f' didn't you stop ?"

To answer his question, maybe the wheel isn't perfectly aligned ? Sounds like the LBS needs to check the limiters, no ?

I hope he didn't damage his Zipp spokes in the process :-)




I had an issue once with a derailer shifting into the spokes. I screwed up the spokes the hanger and the derailer, but did not snap the derailer only bent it slightly. I can not imagine putting enough force on the derailer with the spokes that would snap the derailer and not at least bend a couple spokes. When it happened to me it was climbing and touching wheels with someone else and then an instant lockup of the wheel as the derailer was stuck in there.

If you have a replacable hanger, they are designed to bend before any damage occurs to the derailer.
2015-07-27 8:38 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

The end result is that we still aren't sure what the problem is.  The derailleur is going back to the manufacturer and our LBS put a "new" derailleur from a wrecked trade-in on for now....or maybe forever, we'll see how this goes.  The mechanic felt like the bad derailleur may be slightly bent but that it also seemed to have some internal issues that he felt could be responsible but he couldn't duplicate the problem in the shop, although it did make the loud click a few times. The frame where the hanger attaches does not appear to have any issues. We're going to work forward on the warranty issue and see what happens.  If it's bent I'd say it's our fault through airline handling, if it's internal then I'd say they'll cover it. They also threw a new chain on it and will send the old chain off with the derailleur.  They sent Jr. on his way without a charge.

The kid has Jr. Elite Nationals next weekend, and really couldn't be without his bike while he gets ready, so once again a good relationship with our LBS pays off.  If you want great service, support your local shop and buy from them whenever possible (it almost ALWAYS is if you give them a chance)......and buy them a lunch or two, or a few 12 packs.  It'll come back to you in spades.

In gear closet to wheel ? click click click = derailleur on spokes ? any sign of contact with spokes ?

HA! 

I just read this to Jr. and he looked at me like I had two heads and said, "duh, yeah, what do you think caused it to snap off?"   Apparently, between him and the bike shop and me, I'm the only one who didn't get the memo.   

I wasn't there the first time it happened.....but he says it was the same thing.  He said that the only mystery is why it happened only every so often since he's been in that gearing other times and it didn't happen.

My question would be "if you knew the click click click was the spokes rubbing, why the f' didn't you stop ?" To answer his question, maybe the wheel isn't perfectly aligned ? Sounds like the LBS needs to check the limiters, no ? I hope he didn't damage his Zipp spokes in the process :-)
I had an issue once with a derailer shifting into the spokes. I screwed up the spokes the hanger and the derailer, but did not snap the derailer only bent it slightly. I can not imagine putting enough force on the derailer with the spokes that would snap the derailer and not at least bend a couple spokes. When it happened to me it was climbing and touching wheels with someone else and then an instant lockup of the wheel as the derailer was stuck in there. If you have a replacable hanger, they are designed to bend before any damage occurs to the derailer.

I think that when it all comes out in the wash, the issue will be that the derailleur was bent/damaged during a series of flights back in March/April.  It didn't really surface because he is rarely in the big cog on the rear and the small chain ring in the front.  On the other hand, he HAS been in that configuration and there was no problem, so there is that.  I know basically nothing about Di2 adjustment, but I suppose if it was out of adjustment enough that it could finally work it's way close to the spokes??  The first time it happened was right after the trips in the early part of the year......got a new hanger, the derailleur was adjusted, life went on.  Now 3 months later, lots of mile and lots of rough riding and the issue comes up again.....so perhaps it got just out of adjustment enough to rake the spokes again when he went to the large cog? 

The LBS put the "new" derailleur on and he basically beat the hell out of the bike this weekend on hills and some really rough roads and no problem so I don't think it's frame related.

 



2015-07-27 9:41 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger
Originally posted by Left Brain
the issue will be that the derailleur was bent/damaged during a series of flights back in March/April. 


You don't remove the derailleur when flying ?
2015-07-27 9:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Di2 and derailier hanger

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain the issue will be that the derailleur was bent/damaged during a series of flights back in March/April. 
You don't remove the derailleur when flying ?

Yeah, I do.  This year I flew his bike with a Scicon bag and was really happy with it.  There is a bracket that goes over the derailleur to protect it but I didn't use it.  Instead I take the derailleur off and zip tie it to the inside of the frame.  BUT.....there is no other reason to believe it got bent in any other way....if it is, in fact, bent.

There was some rubbing damage to the bike bag in that area, but I never noticed anything out of order when I put the derailleur back on.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-27 9:51 AM
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