Swim fitness or technique? (Page 5)

Here are some Motivational times for a little wider look at things.

That's all great in theory.....it only falls apart when you go to a local AG triathlon and realize that fully 75% of the people in the water don't have a friggin' clue what good swim form is or how it applies to their swimming.  You can keep an open mind and try to understand it all you want.......but in the end, most people who do triathlon are abysmal swimmers and the vast majority of them have no idea why.  Find a good coach and learn to swim.

It's good in theory to say "find a good coach and learn to swim".  But, by your definition of what that would entail, there are simply a lot of triathletes for which that is neither practical nor desirable--requiring commitments of both substantial time and money.  Yes, they will always be "abysmal" swimmers.  But if they follow some of the good advice offered by others in this thread (or many others who have not posted here), they can at least move towards the lead of the "abysmal" pack--a reasonable goal for many.  Your advice is quite sound, however, for those with truly high performance aspirations.

Yep...and I believe, and so do coaches who have and do teach people to be very fast swimmers, that you have to start with building a basic foundation of swimming technique.  During that building of technique you will also gain swim fitness as you are now properly using the muscle groups that are used in good swimming technique. 

I know that many don't like the example but it really doesn't matter.  I watched a coach make a person who could swim 1:40/100 start completely over.  In the course of that training and 3 years time he was swimming sub :50/100......and sub 4:50 for 500.  There is no way in hell that would have happened by just swimming more. 

He learned to swim.

In the course of that time I have become involved in the program as an official and gotten to know the coaches and swimmers quite well.  I have watched them start from scratch with countless swimmers....yes, some very small kids, but also some fully grown kids.  And I think we've already established that it really isn't a function of age.......it's a function of being willing to take the time to do it right......which, in this case, means learning to swim.

I also understand that most people don't have the time to swim as much as some of these fast swimmers do.......but triathlon training is never an all or nothing deal for adults.  I will always resist the idea that what works for people with lots of time won't work on a smaller scale for people with less time.  Of course it will....the results just won't be as dramatic.

Pssssst - I know you don't care about kid's times.....but I thought I should point out that the qualifying times for a 35-39 y/o male in the 100 and 500 free are also AAA times for a 12 year old boy.  Fast swimming is fast swimming.  Learning to swim is learning to swim.

Of course that's true......but there are just as many people who say, "man, if I could swim better I could be competitive"......those ARE the folks we are talking about, right?  Otherwise, yeah.......just swim on your back, blow some bubbles, and have a blast!!  I can relate to that.

You mean, like the kids do with the EXACT same information??    

I have used it as such. I think for many it will be eye opening just to reach the B standard. Some may think elitist to reach there, but I don't think it's necessarily *that* hard to do though it will take some work.

A bit of context, at least based on the times in my AG, as approximations.  The X times are at the very top of winning nationals.  AAAA is top 10 at Nationals.  AAA is mid point of nationals competitors.  AA is nationals qualifying times.  A, BB, and B are tiers below that.

They have an explanation at the bottom. The X might be newer? That one is the average of the previous 3 years 10th place time. The rest add a percentage to that time. Nationals qualifying times are close to, but may not quite match AA. More like between AA and AAA.

The motivational times come from the respective meets of scy and LCM. Short course is more competitive, so they may not match up when put through a conversion.

I just looked closer.  The 50s and 100s are the AA times equaling the NQTs.  The 200s and longer are the AAA times equaling the NQTs.

Actually, having read the back of the teamunify.com link, X does equal the 3 year average of the 10th place time.  AAAA is X+5%, AAA is X+10%, AA is X+ 15%, A is X+20%, BB is X+25%, and B is X+30%

As it turns out, the formula for the NQTs with the sprints is X+15% and the distance events being X+10%. 

There were about double the number of people at USMS SCY Nationals (~1800) this year versus the LCM Nationals (~900).

And yes, the times are from going off the blocks.  Not in-pool starts.