General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test? Rss Feed  
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2018-10-10 6:31 AM


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Subject: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
Blew with 4 and half minutes to go of FTP , clearly messed up the pacing. Want to carry on with training as have a triathlon in 3 weeks but want to reattempt the test first. How long should I rest before giving it another go?

Thanks guys


2018-10-10 7:36 AM
in reply to: #5250460

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
I would think 2-3 days of easy spinning would get you ready for the next one. At least, for me, it works out that way.
2018-10-10 7:42 AM
in reply to: Alpal


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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
Trust your training and DON'T test. At this point in time what does it matter what your FTP is. I would recommend doing an FTP test a couple weeks to a month into your off season to assist you in setting up your training zones.
2018-10-10 8:09 AM
in reply to: L0ST0NE


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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
Currently following a training programme and this week is test week - need to know current FTP to establish training zones for following stage of programme - kinda hoping it's increased after 5 hard weeks of going at it. The imminent triathlon is just a dress rehearsal for one I'm targeting at the end of the year.
2018-10-10 8:42 AM
in reply to: Alpal


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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
Here is a good article on why you should trust your training: https://www.triathlete.com/2018/08/training/is-your-race-day-simulat...

FTP does not really mean that much for triathlon training, it's a red herring that can derail your training. Yes, it can be used to set training zones, that is why I suggest you do it near the start of your off-season. You could actually set your training back by doing the test. I know it's a radical way of thinking.

I'm sure the old school vets are going to jump all over this and beat this idea down like they do all ideas that are not their own.
2018-10-10 9:03 AM
in reply to: Alpal

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
Just estimate for training purposes. Maybe 5-10 watts lower than the power you were able to hold for most of the test. Then re-do the test once you've recovered from the race. Pacing FTP tests is HARD! It took me several tries to really get a handle on it.


2018-10-10 12:03 PM
in reply to: Alpal

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
There is a lot to consider here and you have some decent data from the test if you made it 15.5 minutes. Why do you need to do it again? I'd focus on the race
2018-10-10 12:30 PM
in reply to: Alpal

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
I had good success with the Trainer Road Ramp test. It is much less stressful than the 20 min test. It was accurate enough for me for me to set my zones for a successful 70.3 and was able to basically train immediately after it.
2018-10-10 12:34 PM
in reply to: L0ST0NE

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?

Originally posted by L0ST0NE Here is a good article on why you should trust your training: https://www.triathlete.com/2018/08/training/is-your-race-day-simulat... FTP does not really mean that much for triathlon training, it's a red herring that can derail your training. Yes, it can be used to set training zones, that is why I suggest you do it near the start of your off-season. You could actually set your training back by doing the test. I know it's a radical way of thinking. I'm sure the old school vets are going to jump all over this and beat this idea down like they do all ideas that are not their own.

Yeah, you're single handedly re-writing triathlon training for the masses. LOL 

2018-10-10 2:08 PM
in reply to: Alpal

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
The point of an FTP test is to NOT pace yourself.

It's all you can muster for 20 minutes. Should have just ridden it out!

I would think an easy or off day and then test the next day.
2018-10-10 2:29 PM
in reply to: Alpal

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?

Originally posted by Alpal Blew with 4 and half minutes to go of FTP , clearly messed up the pacing. Want to carry on with training as have a triathlon in 3 weeks but want to reattempt the test first. How long should I rest before giving it another go? Thanks guys

You should be good to go after a day or two.  However, if you are a Trainer Road member, you might seriously consider the Ramp Test.  For setting zones it's as accurate as a 20-minute FTP test and it's FAR easier on the body, plus it completely takes pacing out of the equation.  You just put your head down and ride until you can't.



2018-10-10 2:59 PM
in reply to: L0ST0NE

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?

Originally posted by L0ST0NE Here is a good article on why you should trust your training: https://www.triathlete.com/2018/08/training/is-your-race-day-simulat... FTP does not really mean that much for triathlon training, it's a red herring that can derail your training. Yes, it can be used to set training zones, that is why I suggest you do it near the start of your off-season. You could actually set your training back by doing the test. I know it's a radical way of thinking. I'm sure the old school vets are going to jump all over this and beat this idea down like they do all ideas that are not their own.
WTF!

I guess I was always doing this training program incorrectly then, had me test then retest every few weeks when the focus changed:

https://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/training-plans-view.asp?planid=10919#

I prefer CP over FTP but because I liked doing the 5' test!

The Ramp test sounds interesting, I see MaximumTrainer also added it.  Soon it'll be back to some T.I.T.S. for me as I may doing a ride across Florida next spring and will fire up the trainer again for my gravel bike.

2018-10-10 3:08 PM
in reply to: Alpal

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?

Originally posted by Alpal Blew with 4 and half minutes to go of FTP , clearly messed up the pacing. Want to carry on with training as have a triathlon in 3 weeks but want to reattempt the test first. How long should I rest before giving it another go? Thanks guys
Nice thing about using Critical Power is if you do blow up on the long test you can still use that W result value and time along with a shorter 5' value and it'll calc out a slope that will be very similar to FTP. It should carry carry you over until the next test sequence.  

See this BT CP calculator: https://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/cycling-zone-calc.asp

2018-10-10 3:37 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by L0ST0NE Here is a good article on why you should trust your training: https://www.triathlete.com/2018/08/training/is-your-race-day-simulat... FTP does not really mean that much for triathlon training, it's a red herring that can derail your training. Yes, it can be used to set training zones, that is why I suggest you do it near the start of your off-season. You could actually set your training back by doing the test. I know it's a radical way of thinking. I'm sure the old school vets are going to jump all over this and beat this idea down like they do all ideas that are not their own.

Yeah, you're single handedly re-writing triathlon training for the masses. LOL 




No, you're just stuck in the old school of thinking and training. I knew you would be the first one to bash my post, you just can stand someone having a different opinion than yours and that is what is killing these forums.
2018-10-10 3:40 PM
in reply to: Donto


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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by L0ST0NE Here is a good article on why you should trust your training: https://www.triathlete.com/2018/08/training/is-your-race-day-simulat... FTP does not really mean that much for triathlon training, it's a red herring that can derail your training. Yes, it can be used to set training zones, that is why I suggest you do it near the start of your off-season. You could actually set your training back by doing the test. I know it's a radical way of thinking. I'm sure the old school vets are going to jump all over this and beat this idea down like they do all ideas that are not their own.
WTF!

I guess I was always doing this training program incorrectly then, had me test then retest every few weeks when the focus changed:

https://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/training-plans-view.asp?planid=10919#

I prefer CP over FTP but because I liked doing the 5' test!

The Ramp test sounds interesting, I see MaximumTrainer also added it.  Soon it'll be back to some T.I.T.S. for me as I may doing a ride across Florida next spring and will fire up the trainer again for my gravel bike.




Maybe it's a flawed program with old thinking.

The old timers on these forums are killing new ideas and not allowing different opinions on the site. These forums are dying because of it and LB is leading the way.
2018-10-10 4:25 PM
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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?

Originally posted by L0ST0NE
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by L0ST0NE Here is a good article on why you should trust your training: https://www.triathlete.com/2018/08/training/is-your-race-day-simulat... FTP does not really mean that much for triathlon training, it's a red herring that can derail your training. Yes, it can be used to set training zones, that is why I suggest you do it near the start of your off-season. You could actually set your training back by doing the test. I know it's a radical way of thinking. I'm sure the old school vets are going to jump all over this and beat this idea down like they do all ideas that are not their own.

Yeah, you're single handedly re-writing triathlon training for the masses. LOL 

No, you're just stuck in the old school of thinking and training. I knew you would be the first one to bash my post, you just can stand someone having a different opinion than yours and that is what is killing these forums.

Really?  You've only made a few posts over 4-years and you choose to come on and throw darts at one of the most experienced and knowledgeable people on the site?  If what you are advocating had some connection to reality, perhaps it would be different.  However, the article you linked to DOESN'T say you shouldn't do an FTP test.

"Though Lieto doesn’t prescribe these common test sets to his athletes, he says that something like a 10k running time trial should be done less often than the popular monthly 200 swimming test set or 20-minute all-out bike sets. Running time trials “take much more out of your body, and you will need much more recovery before the next one,” he says."

What your article says is you should do a RUNNING test less often.  How you then made the leap to not doing an FTP test is beyond me.

Earlier in the article you cited, Lieto says, "It feels good to go fast. I get that,” Lieto says. “But there is nothing to ‘prove’ in training. That is what many athletes look for when they hit these test sessions. They are thinking less about the adaptations necessary for the race and more to prove to themselves that they can.”

With all due respect, that's what you appear to be doing.  You are thinking less about adaptations and more about advocating your unproven, undescribed training method.  By training in different zones, you force various physiological adaptations.  You determine those zones by knowing your threshold.  You determine your threshold by doing a Functional Threshold Test or some equivalent.  That's proven, peer-reviewed science.  You repeat the test during a training cycle because the entire point of training is to force adaptations that increase, among other things, FTP.  If you don't retest, you will be training in the wrong zones and your gains will turn into a plateau.

Nice try though.

As to this foolishness - "The old timers on these forums are killing new ideas and not allowing different opinions on the site. These forums are dying because of it and LB is leading the way."  The so-called "old-timers" on these forums prefer to use and follow proven science.  New ideas are fine.  Different opinions are fine.  However, if you are going to advocate something new, you better be prepared to defend your position with more than an article that doesn't say what you seem to think it says.

One final observation - if you hope to have better traction for your ideas in the future, you may be better served by not coming on and hurling insults at a couple of the most respected, most knowledgeable people on the site.  All that does is cause people to discount you.

Just my humble two-cents.



2018-10-16 7:28 AM
in reply to: Alpal


22

Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?
Just thought I'd update after all the useful comments I've received.

Repeated the test again yesterday and smashed it so very happy.

First attempt blew up 15.5 mins in on an average of 278 watts yesterday finished the test with a 20 min average of 282 watts.

What was different.

1.) Took two rest days before instead of 1
2.) Stuck to the pacing plan - started off a little easier and then gradually increased based on how I felt.
3.) The room where I did it was also much cooler than the first attempt.

Onwards and upwards

2018-10-18 6:35 AM
in reply to: Alpal

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?

Nice work, now you can suffer just a little bit more on your workouts. 

2018-10-18 9:06 AM
in reply to: Alpal

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Subject: RE: How long to wait after reattempting a failed FTP test?

Originally posted by Alpal Just thought I'd update after all the useful comments I've received. Repeated the test again yesterday and smashed it so very happy. First attempt blew up 15.5 mins in on an average of 278 watts yesterday finished the test with a 20 min average of 282 watts. What was different. 1.) Took two rest days before instead of 1 2.) Stuck to the pacing plan - started off a little easier and then gradually increased based on how I felt. 3.) The room where I did it was also much cooler than the first attempt. Onwards and upwards

One of the things I've found is that I get better at the testing protocol over time and repeated attempts, so that doesn't surprise me that your 2nd attempt was better.

I totally blew up one last year where I basically quit about 12 minutes in.  You have to have the right mentality, too.

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