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2020-04-20 7:15 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Nice work.  I just came off a three week training block and did a virtual race on Zwift with some good results.  I'll probably give a test a go next month...Sufferfest has a new ramp test which is a lot less painful than their 4DP one.



2020-04-20 12:36 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Thanks! Looking forward to seeing your results. What's the new ramp test from Sufferfest like?
2020-05-23 3:28 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~267watts (+3)
Maximum aerobic 5m power: 267watts (+6)
Functional threshold 20m power: ~236watts (+7)

Weight: 144.8lbs=65.68kg (-1.2lb)
Power to weight ratio: 3.41watts/kg (+0.14)

Jorge's Plan Calculator = 3.51watts/kg (+0.16) using 3m power and 3.44watts/kg using 5m power (+0.09)

Maybe I failed during the 3 minute interval as to thinking I needed to save my legs for the upcoming 20 minute interval test in the same workout. I was certain I was pushing harder but I ended up averaging 20.3mph.

Either way, it may be possible I'm just better at pushing the effort and holding it on longer intervals, hehe.
2020-05-30 9:40 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Did my first week of over under vo2max intervals. This training block is gonna be pure death! O_O
2020-06-01 4:01 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by kloofyroland Did my first week of over under vo2max intervals. This training block is gonna be pure death! O_O

Yes - those are quite difficult, depending on the over/under ratio and total length.  I find nine minutes 2' @105%, 1' @ 95% x 3 just painful enough to hurt but not totally fry me.

2020-06-05 10:06 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kloofyroland Did my first week of over under vo2max intervals. This training block is gonna be pure death! O_O

Yes - those are quite difficult, depending on the over/under ratio and total length.  I find nine minutes 2' @105%, 1' @ 95% x 3 just painful enough to hurt but not totally fry me.



Yeah, nasty but effective stuff. I did 3x15 minutes at similar intervals this week and those nearly fried me to deah man. So glad next week is recovery week, hehe.


2020-06-29 2:08 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Recent test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~276watts (+9)
Maximum aerobic 5m power: 270watts (+3)
Functional threshold 20m power: ~244watts (+8)

Weight: 146.0lbs=66.22kg (+1.2lb)
Power to weight ratio: 3.50watts/kg (+0.09)

Jorge's Plan Calculator = 3.60watts/kg (+0.09) using 3m power and 3.50watts/kg using 5m power (+0.06)

Those V02max intervals paid off!
2020-08-04 10:43 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Here is my progression in power training:  

Date              FTP       W/Kg
4/09/20       331         4.3
2/26/20       321         4.2
1/15/20       315         4.1
4/12/19       302         3.9
4/03/19       308         4.0
2/17/19       297         3.9
1/21/19       281         3.6
6/11/18       292         3.8
1/17/18       268         3.5
 
  4.9% improvement form 2018-2019
12.1% improvement from 2019-2020
   5.1% Improvement Year-to-Date
 
I guess my goal is going to have to be at 353 PFT when I test in January of 2021 to hit 12.1% improvement. That would put me at 4.6 W/kg.  I am not sure if I will make it.  We will see how things shape out this year.
2020-08-08 12:19 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Here is my progression in power training:  

Date              FTP       W/Kg
4/09/20       331         4.3
2/26/20       321         4.2
1/15/20       315         4.1
4/12/19       302         3.9
4/03/19       308         4.0
2/17/19       297         3.9
1/21/19       281         3.6
6/11/18       292         3.8
1/17/18       268         3.5
 
  4.9% improvement form 2018-2019
12.1% improvement from 2019-2020
   5.1% Improvement Year-to-Date
 
I guess my goal is going to have to be at 353 PFT when I test in January of 2021 to hit 12.1% improvement. That would put me at 4.6 W/kg.  I am not sure if I will make it.  We will see how things shape out this year.



Nice progression. I'm learning as I get closer to 4.0W/Kg, the workouts are getting more and more gruesome. What are you doing to keep yourself at or above 4.0?
2020-08-30 12:53 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Looks like someone likes joining the discussion only to post his data but not share information when asked, hehehe.

My quest continues regardless. =P

Recent test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~279watts (+3)
Maximum aerobic 5m power: 276watts (+6)
Functional threshold 20m power: ~250watts (+6)

Weight: 147.4lbs=67.00kg (+1.4lb due to ST and harder workouts?)
Power to weight ratio: 3.54watts/kg (+0.04)

Jorge's Plan Calculator = 3.65watts/kg (+0.05) using 3m power and 3.60watts/kg using 5m power (+0.10)

The heat and humidity that crept into my gym room may have hindered my performance in during the 3' and 20' interval test session. >.< Other than that, I'm feeling pretty good I still made positive gains since last report, hehe.
2020-12-02 9:53 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by kloofyroland Looks like someone likes joining the discussion only to post his data but not share information when asked, hehehe. My quest continues regardless. =P Recent test results: Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~279watts (+3) Maximum aerobic 5m power: 276watts (+6) Functional threshold 20m power: ~250watts (+6) Weight: 147.4lbs=67.00kg (+1.4lb due to ST and harder workouts?) Power to weight ratio: 3.54watts/kg (+0.04) Jorge's Plan Calculator = 3.65watts/kg (+0.05) using 3m power and 3.60watts/kg using 5m power (+0.10) The heat and humidity that crept into my gym room may have hindered my performance in during the 3' and 20' interval test session. >.< Other than that, I'm feeling pretty good I still made positive gains since last report, hehe.

 

I don't visit the Challenges Section very often.  I got on today for the first time in several months to see if there are any new challenges for 2021.  So, not ignoring your question.  I just didn't see it until today.  

 

I did outdoor cycling when I got into Triathlon in January of 2015.  I did pretty much all of my cycling training outdoors until 2018.  After my first triathlon the spring of 2015 I did Jorge's Winter Bike Maintenance plan that is free in the BT workout session.  I did that outdoors with HR from August to November.  That was my first prodized bike training.  I did the 8 week Tridot plan the winter of 2017 on the stationary bike at the gym where I swim that has a Watt setting on the screen.  In 2018 I got a kurk's kinetic bike trainer and ant+ Garmin sensors and started doing periodized training in Trainer Roads.  I made a lot of progress from 2015 to 2018 without the bike trainer, but with the bike trainers training became much more controlled, repeatable, and measurable.   So the key to my progression has been periodized training on Trainer Roads.  I do a Monday Wednesday morning 60-75min session on the trainer doing structured intervals, a 2-3 hour Saturday outdoor ride on Saturdays with long Sweet Spot Intervals.  about once a month I add a 4th indoor trainer ride of 75-90 mins on Friday morning that is it.  If the sessions get too hard take a rest week or two and re-test.  If your FTP is too high you are going to go backwards and not forward.  There are a lot of threads about going slow to get faster.  The same applies to the bike.  If you are getting stronger the workouts won't feel harder even though you are doing higher Watts.  The key is consistency.  Stick with it the gains will come.  If it feels too hard it probably is so re-test and don't worry about the lower score.  That will get the effort back to where it needs to be for you to progress.    

 



2020-12-04 12:05 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by kloofyroland

...Recent test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~279watts (+3)

Maximum aerobic 5m power: 276watts (+6)

Functional threshold 20m power: ~250watts (+6

I am looking at this again and see your 3m Power is only 3 watts higher than your 5m power and that your 5m power is only 26 watts higher than your 20m power?

I think if your 3m power is not at least 25% higher than your 20m power that a VO2max Booster plan would help you get through the plateau.  That would look like a lot of short intervals (Tabata type intervals) and some big gear stuff (i.e. 10-minute 100% FTP @ 55 RPM).    

2020-12-05 6:18 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by kloofyroland

...Recent test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~279watts (+3)

Maximum aerobic 5m power: 276watts (+6)

Functional threshold 20m power: ~250watts (+6

I am looking at this again and see your 3m Power is only 3 watts higher than your 5m power and that your 5m power is only 26 watts higher than your 20m power?

I think if your 3m power is not at least 25% higher than your 20m power that a VO2max Booster plan would help you get through the plateau.  That would look like a lot of short intervals (Tabata type intervals) and some big gear stuff (i.e. 10-minute 100% FTP @ 55 RPM).    

Yeah I didn't notice that.  That's a REALLY flat power curve.

My 1 minute power is 469w, 3 minute power 329 (never really tested that interval), 5 minute 318, 20 minute 241.  I really haven't focused on 20 minute power this year, was more trying to hit the extremes of sprints and anaerobic power plus pushing out to 50+ miles on long ride for endurance.  I just started TR's sweet spot based to solidify the middle.  I use 260 as my FTP setting and I"m juuuuust able to complete the workouts.  Maybe it's set a tad too high but I could ride all day at 88% of 241.

If you look at my 2019 vs. 2020 power curve, solid gains across the board except for that middle section I spoke of, so hear I am suffering 5 x 10' at 90% intervals this morning. 

2020-12-06 10:46 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by kloofyroland

...Recent test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~279watts (+3)

Maximum aerobic 5m power: 276watts (+6)

Functional threshold 20m power: ~250watts (+6

I am looking at this again and see your 3m Power is only 3 watts higher than your 5m power and that your 5m power is only 26 watts higher than your 20m power?

I think if your 3m power is not at least 25% higher than your 20m power that a VO2max Booster plan would help you get through the plateau.  That would look like a lot of short intervals (Tabata type intervals) and some big gear stuff (i.e. 10-minute 100% FTP @ 55 RPM).    

Yeah I didn't notice that.  That's a REALLY flat power curve.

My 1 minute power is 469w, 3 minute power 329 (never really tested that interval), 5 minute 318, 20 minute 241.  I really haven't focused on 20 minute power this year, was more trying to hit the extremes of sprints and anaerobic power plus pushing out to 50+ miles on long ride for endurance.  I just started TR's sweet spot based to solidify the middle.  I use 260 as my FTP setting and I"m juuuuust able to complete the workouts.  Maybe it's set a tad too high but I could ride all day at 88% of 241.

If you look at my 2019 vs. 2020 power curve, solid gains across the board except for that middle section I spoke of, so hear I am suffering 5 x 10' at 90% intervals this morning. 




If 10' at 90% is suffering, you are too high.

Your numbers actually line up quite well. I would try 2x20min at 220watts

2020-12-07 10:16 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by kloofyroland

...Recent test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~279watts (+3)

Maximum aerobic 5m power: 276watts (+6)

Functional threshold 20m power: ~250watts (+6

I am looking at this again and see your 3m Power is only 3 watts higher than your 5m power and that your 5m power is only 26 watts higher than your 20m power?

I think if your 3m power is not at least 25% higher than your 20m power that a VO2max Booster plan would help you get through the plateau.  That would look like a lot of short intervals (Tabata type intervals) and some big gear stuff (i.e. 10-minute 100% FTP @ 55 RPM).    

Yeah I didn't notice that.  That's a REALLY flat power curve.

My 1 minute power is 469w, 3 minute power 329 (never really tested that interval), 5 minute 318, 20 minute 241.  I really haven't focused on 20 minute power this year, was more trying to hit the extremes of sprints and anaerobic power plus pushing out to 50+ miles on long ride for endurance.  I just started TR's sweet spot based to solidify the middle.  I use 260 as my FTP setting and I"m juuuuust able to complete the workouts.  Maybe it's set a tad too high but I could ride all day at 88% of 241.

If you look at my 2019 vs. 2020 power curve, solid gains across the board except for that middle section I spoke of, so hear I am suffering 5 x 10' at 90% intervals this morning. 

If 10' at 90% is suffering, you are too high. Your numbers actually line up quite well. I would try 2x20min at 220watts

I completed 5 x 10' @ 88/90/92/92/90, with 5' RBI on Saturday.  Didn't hit LTHR until the last minute or so of the 4th one, and for the last half of the 5th one.  Not suffering, just takes a lot of concentration and I'm not used to that type of training as I did mostly outdoor riding and Zwift racing this year.

2020-12-08 9:22 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

I am on the last week of my 4-week break from structured training right now, so I haven't done any intensity over FTP in a month, but this morning I felt like doing something so I did 3 X 10mins @ 90% FTP and they felt easy.  I did the canned "Geiger" TR workout and noticed in the in-ride instructions that said, and I paraphrase, that "Too much intensity and/or too little recovery = negative training effect" and that "correct intensity + correct recovery = positive training effect".      



2020-12-12 10:25 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

3 x 20' @ 85% (221w), 5' RBI this morning.  First two were pretty easy, third I had to really concentrate.  HR stayed below LTHR the whole time and my hrTSS on Training Peaks was lower than the TSS by a couple of points, but close.  The plan starts moving into some over/unders next week.

2020-12-22 11:18 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

If your FTP is too high you are going to go backwards and not forward.  There are a lot of threads about going slow to get faster.  The same applies to the bike.  If you are getting stronger the workouts won't feel harder even though you are doing higher Watts.  The key is consistency.  Stick with it the gains will come.  If it feels too hard it probably is so re-test and don't worry about the lower score.  That will get the effort back to where it needs to be for you to progress.

Yay! Thank you for coming back and taking a look. Boy could I have used this advice months ago, hehehe. I think I hit a plateau and and currently hovering around 3.7-3.75watts/kg. I may have made an error thinking I made an increasing linear progression of about 2% since September and in doing so, I may have been working myself too hard causing me to fail the 2 post September FTP tests.

I'm tapering down this week and will do my final FTP test for the year. Based on Jorge's Plan calculator I went from 3.11 to 3.69 watts/kg this year so far. I hope I get above 3.7 watts/kg before the year is over and continue on the goal of 4.0 in 2021.

Roland
2020-12-22 1:58 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Master
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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by kloofyroland

...Recent test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~279watts (+3)

Maximum aerobic 5m power: 276watts (+6)

Functional threshold 20m power: ~250watts (+6

I am looking at this again and see your 3m Power is only 3 watts higher than your 5m power and that your 5m power is only 26 watts higher than your 20m power?

I think if your 3m power is not at least 25% higher than your 20m power that a VO2max Booster plan would help you get through the plateau.  That would look like a lot of short intervals (Tabata type intervals) and some big gear stuff (i.e. 10-minute 100% FTP @ 55 RPM).    

Yeah I didn't notice that.  That's a REALLY flat power curve.

My 1 minute power is 469w, 3 minute power 329 (never really tested that interval), 5 minute 318, 20 minute 241.  I really haven't focused on 20 minute power this year, was more trying to hit the extremes of sprints and anaerobic power plus pushing out to 50+ miles on long ride for endurance.  I just started TR's sweet spot based to solidify the middle.  I use 260 as my FTP setting and I"m juuuuust able to complete the workouts.  Maybe it's set a tad too high but I could ride all day at 88% of 241.

If you look at my 2019 vs. 2020 power curve, solid gains across the board except for that middle section I spoke of, so hear I am suffering 5 x 10' at 90% intervals this morning. 




Here are my September FTP test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~291watts

Maximum aerobic 5m power: ~282watts

Functional threshold 20m power: ~253watts

Damn, my 3m power is 115% more than my 20m power. (I did those 2 interval tests in the same workout and the 5m a few days later). I'll re-evaluate my training plan with what you're saying and modify it accordingly. I plan on taking a few weeks off of the super hard stuff after the new year and start chasing 4.0 watts/kg again in 2021.
2020-12-22 5:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

3 x 20' @ 85% (221w), 5' RBI this morning.  First two were pretty easy, third I had to really concentrate.  HR stayed below LTHR the whole time and my hrTSS on Training Peaks was lower than the TSS by a couple of points, but close.  The plan starts moving into some over/unders next week.



Good stuff. How'd those over/unders go?

Edited by kloofyroland 2020-12-22 5:20 PM
2020-12-23 6:00 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

3 x 20' @ 85% (221w), 5' RBI this morning.  First two were pretty easy, third I had to really concentrate.  HR stayed below LTHR the whole time and my hrTSS on Training Peaks was lower than the TSS by a couple of points, but close.  The plan starts moving into some over/unders next week.

Good stuff. How'd those over/unders go?

I had a rough week last week, wasn't feeling great and slept like crap so I made it a recovery week.  Easing back into it this week with a 30' interval @ 82-88% on Monday and some threshold work yesterday. 



2020-12-24 12:02 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Glad you're still on it. I'm being good about tapering down this week so I can have a good test week after the coming weekend.
2021-01-02 8:58 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
I caught a bit of a cold or something and felt like crap all week. Been wanting to do the 20' FTP test but haven't felt up to it. My last day to give it a shot will be tomorrow seeing my workout week for the year ends tomorrow, hehehe. If I can't make that I will have attained a close 3.69watts/kg. Not quite 4.0 but it was a great learning experience!

This year I will take some time off mid year to let my body heal so I can progress a bit more the 2nd half.

Thanks for joining the challenge guys!

Roland
2021-07-28 2:06 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland


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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
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