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2007-11-29 12:27 PM
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2007-11-29 12:28 PM
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2007-11-29 12:54 PM
in reply to: #1071894

Master
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Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....

I am no expert (it is BEGINNERtriathlete.com, after all). 

With TI, I can swim for a long, long time and expend a minimum amount of energy. 

When I try to swim "like the kool katz" at the pool, I use up a ton more energy for a few seconds. 

I've resigned myself to swimming efficiently and injury free, sticking to a TI style.   But I am jealous of you peeps!  Wish I could stop pi$$'n with the guppies and run with the (age) groupers. 

 Pi$$"'n" is probably not a good analogy for a pool scenario,  is it?

2007-11-29 1:32 PM
in reply to: #1071894

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Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....

PennState - 2007-11-28 2:31 PM
Swim Golf is a concept used in Total Immersion swimming as well. Bryan said it best... it's not the fastest way to swim, but extremely efficient and energy saving.

I swim with about 12-14 strokes each length, and when I am swimming well I can pull off 1:30 for 100yds with very little effort at all. If I work a lots harder and faster I can go in the lower 1:20s, but it isn't worth it in a race... too much energy lost

So I did some Golf this morning...  Here was the work-out:

500m EZ
4x50 one-arm
4x50 catch-up
8x25 SPL (all 16-17 SPL's)
4x50 Golf (77,77,79,81)
3x500 EZ (9:58, 10:04, 10:20)

Figures are all in meters - pool must have been built by Canucks , so the SPL's are about 15-16/25yd and golf numbers would be in the 73-77 range for 50yd.  So, it doesn't seem that I'm that far off on efficiency with the horses thoroughbreds of BryanC and PennState.  However, when I push under 1:50/100m (1:42/100yd), things really break down and find it tough to maintain that pace - go beyond LT.  I'm thinking (I know its blasphemy) that fitness has something to do with it too!?  These guys are aerobic machines...  I'd like to be capable of a 70min IM swim at some point.  I wonder if it's just plugging away with time in the pool...

Still, I am pretty stoked, since in 2006 I couldn't swim 25 meters.   



Edited by mbmoran2 2007-11-29 1:33 PM
2007-11-29 1:54 PM
in reply to: #1074406

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Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....

mbmoran2 - 2007-11-29 1:32 PM

So I did some Golf this morning...  Here was the work-out:

500m EZ
4x50 one-arm
4x50 catch-up
8x25 SPL (all 16-17 SPL's)
4x50 Golf (77,77,79,81)
3x500 EZ (9:58, 10:04, 10:20)

Figures are all in meters - pool must have been built by Canucks , so the SPL's are about 15-16/25yd and golf numbers would be in the 73-77 range for 50yd.  So, it doesn't seem that I'm that far off on efficiency with the horses thoroughbreds of BryanC and PennState.  However, when I push under 1:50/100m (1:42/100yd), things really break down and find it tough to maintain that pace - go beyond LT.  I'm thinking (I know its blasphemy) that fitness has something to do with it too!?  These guys are aerobic machines...  I'd like to be capable of a 70min IM swim at some point.  I wonder if it's just plugging away with time in the pool...

Still, I am pretty stoked, since in 2006 I couldn't swim 25 meters.   

Two questions:

What happens if you try to increase your turnover?
How much rest are you taking between 50s?

I ask because your "scores" are generally a bit better than mine though with similar speed--I'm usually low 80s with 36-38 strokes and :44-:45 (in a meters pool too).  But a 1:50 pace is pretty easy for me to maintain for a long time and LT-pace is probably in the low-1:40s (somewhere in the 1:30s with a wetsuit).  If you are doing those on short rest (~:10), then it seems the only thing holding you back from a 70min IM swim is more time in the water.

2007-11-29 2:00 PM
in reply to: #1071894

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2007-11-29 2:21 PM
in reply to: #1074487

Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....

Who'd of thunk my thread would have been the most viewed and discussed in a while.

Tomorrow's swim for me will be more work on those drills and going slow to focus on getting them right.  I've got almost two years of self-taught swimming bad habits to unlearn.

Of course today my right shoulder is tender. Tongue out

2007-11-29 2:24 PM
in reply to: #1071894

Expert
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Wylie, TX
Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....
Keep the info coming. Just by reading this thread and utilizing the tips, I swam my fastest 1000 meters ever. One thing that helps me for getting that good reach, is to feel my wiskers rub up against my shoulder. Sorry ladies, doesn't help you much. At least I hope it doesn't.
2007-11-29 2:33 PM
in reply to: #1074536

Champion
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New York, NY
Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....
Daremo - 2007-11-29 2:21 PM

Of course today my right shoulder is tender. Tongue out

 

swimmer's shoulder is the number one injury amongst triathletes - oh and weight lifting prevents that !!!

 

Surprised

2007-11-29 2:40 PM
in reply to: #1074548

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2007-11-29 2:54 PM
in reply to: #1074471

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Michiana
Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....
JohnnyKay - 2007-11-29 2:54 PM

mbmoran2 - 2007-11-29 1:32 PM

So I did some Golf this morning...  Here was the work-out:

500m EZ
4x50 one-arm
4x50 catch-up
8x25 SPL (all 16-17 SPL's)
4x50 Golf (77,77,79,81)
3x500 EZ (9:58, 10:04, 10:20)

Figures are all in meters - pool must have been built by Canucks , so the SPL's are about 15-16/25yd and golf numbers would be in the 73-77 range for 50yd.  So, it doesn't seem that I'm that far off on efficiency with the horses thoroughbreds of BryanC and PennState.  However, when I push under 1:50/100m (1:42/100yd), things really break down and find it tough to maintain that pace - go beyond LT.  I'm thinking (I know its blasphemy) that fitness has something to do with it too!?  These guys are aerobic machines...  I'd like to be capable of a 70min IM swim at some point.  I wonder if it's just plugging away with time in the pool...

Still, I am pretty stoked, since in 2006 I couldn't swim 25 meters.   

Two questions:

What happens if you try to increase your turnover?
How much rest are you taking between 50s?

I ask because your "scores" are generally a bit better than mine though with similar speed--I'm usually low 80s with 36-38 strokes and :44-:45 (in a meters pool too).  But a 1:50 pace is pretty easy for me to maintain for a long time and LT-pace is probably in the low-1:40s (somewhere in the 1:30s with a wetsuit).  If you are doing those on short rest (~:10), then it seems the only thing holding you back from a 70min IM swim is more time in the water.

What happens if you try to increase your turnover?   I sort of tried that in the last two sets of golf (79&81 vs. 77's).  It may be that I'm not yet aerobically fit enough to increase that part.  This is where one begins the downward spiral:  higher turnover - more oxygen demand, more breaths per length, more fatigue, worsening form, slower speed.  I probably need more "base" meters at an efficient turnover rate (for me) and increase the cadence slowly as fitness builds.

How much rest are you taking between 50s?  Golf sets had 45-60 seconds between each... quite a bit longer than the 10 seconds you do.  Hmmm...  I'm sure if they were done on 10's, my scores would be higher/worse.

I can hold a 1:50/100m for 1,500m (27:25 PR).  That's just on the ragged edge - hence my estimate of LT.

Looking at your logs, you've got quite a bit more time in the pool than I.  Ding, ding, ding...  It seems like if you want to get better at something, you need to spend time practicing - novel thought!  Where have I heard this concept before?... T.I.S., base mileage, etc...

Thanks for the input. 



2007-11-29 3:04 PM
in reply to: #1074644

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Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....

mbmoran2 - 2007-11-29 2:54 PM

Golf sets had 45-60 seconds between each...

OK, that help explains it.  I do swim golf on short rest so that I set a fast, but not "all out" effort.  Actually, most of my sets are on relatively short rest unless I'm really trying to work on top-end speed.    But as long as you do it the same each time, the golf score should still be a useful benchmark for yourself.

2007-11-29 5:28 PM
in reply to: #1074536

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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: What I learend at my "first" swim coaching session .....
Daremo - 2007-11-29 2:21 PM

Who'd of thunk my thread would have been the most viewed and discussed in a while.

Tomorrow's swim for me will be more work on those drills and going slow to focus on getting them right.  I've got almost two years of self-taught swimming bad habits to unlearn.

Of course today my right shoulder is tender. Tongue out



Been a while since we had a decent swim thread where we all participated!
I have getting into the pool 4 times per week, doing 2000-2500 yard workouts and really working on form as opposed to pace. I have found that shorter and more consistent workouts really fun. Over the past 4 weeks, I seem to be much more comfortable holding a 15 count for 25 SCY at varying speeds. I'll work pace back in when the season starts, but for now it's all about efficiency.

Edited by bryancd 2007-11-29 5:45 PM
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