Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets

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2009-11-20 1:28 PM

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Subject: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets

This has been bugging me for a while and I've searched and not found any specific answers.  When I first started Swimming, like Running and Biking, it was all about short distances.  Afterall, I was winded after 25 meters when I first started Swimming.  But now after Swimming consistently for 2 years (268,000 meters & 5 HIM's) I have some pretty decent Swimming Fitness.  At the end of last year I followed the BT Intermediate Half Ironman Plan, and like most plans it had me doing a lot of shorter 100m, 200m and 400m sets.  Once in a while it had me doing 500's and 1,000's, but when I followed the plan I always felt like I was doing really short Sets and despite the short Rest Intervals -- I never felt like I was training for Endurance Swims because Long Continuous Swims seemed very few and far between and only at the end of the plan.

In a few months I will be starting my Ironman training, and I am looking at the Plans and I am blown away at how Swim Sessions have short sets.  As a Beginner Swimmer I can see why Sets make sense -- to build fitness and improve form.  But I'm at a point where I feel, just like Biking and Running, I need to go long continuously while focusing on my form.  In 4 of my 5 HIM"s I started feeling fatigued halfway through my swim and usually end up "holding on" for the final leg of the swim.  I genuinely feel this is a direct result of not Swimming Long enough.  I swam a handfull of 2500 and 3000 meter workouts, but Swimming at the 2800 meter mark after having seven breaks, and Swimming straight through -- or after having 1 or 2 breaks -- are two different animals. 

When I Run, if I suddenly get fatigued, I slow down (I don't stop, unless I am having wicked cramps which is rare) and the same with Biking.  I think I've become a succesfull Runner and I am becoming a decent Cyclist because I consistently go Long and concentrate on Form, especially in the latter miles when fatigue sets in.  Over the next 3 months I am going to experiment with Swimming much Longer Sets and only sprinkle in Tempo 100's and 200's at the end of some workouts.  If I see results, I am going to do the same for my Ironman Training.  I am going to use each workout total Distance as my guide, but I am going to try and break each Swim into no more than two or three Sets. 

Has anyone thought of doing this, or has done this?  And don't get me wrong, I believe there is value in doing shorter sets, but I feel I will have more success and become a better 1.2 mile and -- eventually -- 2.4 mile Swimmer by incorporating longer more continuous sets. 

Thoughts? 

  



Edited by Dream Chaser 2009-11-20 1:41 PM

2009-11-20 2:05 PM
in reply to: #2524038

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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
Lots of threads related to this on here if you search, and lots of others will chime in. Personally I like to throw in a long continuous swim once in a while to remind myself I can do it. I never had any trouble with doing the distance even if I have only swum intervals in training. BUT, I like to do a long one once in a while. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Do intervals mostly, and do a long swim occassionally if you like. No need to overthink this. :-)

Edited by louiskie 2009-11-20 2:06 PM
2009-11-20 2:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
Oh, the other thing is whether you are taking too much rest in between sets in your intervals? If you are building for a long distance, most of the time I would think your rest between sets should be pretty short so you are almost doing a continuous swim but should be able to maintain form and a higher pace during the sets. Not sure I am making sense but hopefully you catch my drift.
2009-11-20 2:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
I do a longer straight swim (2200 which is all I have time for at lunch) which I think benefits me a lot. I think the key to doing this type of swim is to not let your form fall apart which is why many coaches do not recommend long swims. How I and some others I know get around this is to break it up. For me that means swimming every 5th 50 backstroke. Doing this allows me to swim continously while still holding my form.

If your form is already very solid and you have the endurance built up, a set like this may benefit you in your IM training as it should allow to swim with no breaks while keeping your form in somewhat good shape.

Hope this helps.

ETA: The backstroke helps to loosen up my shoulders as well as these long swims can cause your shoulders to get sore.

Edited by docswim24 2009-11-20 2:13 PM
2009-11-20 2:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
I swim three days a week, two swims are intervals and one is distance. The distance gets longer the closer I get to the race. For a half, my longest swim will usually be 2800-3000 yards
2009-11-20 2:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets

louiskie - 2009-11-20 3:10 PM Oh, the other thing is whether you are taking too much rest in between sets in your intervals? If you are building for a long distance, most of the time I would think your rest between sets should be pretty short so you are almost doing a continuous swim but should be able to maintain form and a higher pace during the sets. Not sure I am making sense but hopefully you catch my drift.

I catch your drift.  What I did in the late Summer and Early Fall was follow the Intermdiate Half Ironman Plan and the Swim plan tells you how long a break to take.  As the sessions progressed the breaks where shorter and shorter, but for me I still don't think it translated into continuous Long Swim Endurance. 

I'm not overthinking it, I'm just thinking it will work better for me (gaining swimming strength and endurance) if I do 75 to 80% Long Continuous Swims and approx 20% Short Intense Sets.  And I'm just wondering if anyone has tried this and has success.

2009-11-20 2:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
Here's a link to a thread discussing this.
2009-11-20 3:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets

oldntrin - 2009-11-20 3:50 PM Here's a link to a thread discussing this.

Thank you.  I admittedly did a half-a$$ search. 

2009-11-20 6:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
With the exception of test sets, long continuous swims should be the exception as opposed to the rule.  While during an IM your pace will be easy for the duration, the best way to make easy fast is to improve your threshold pace.  You do this by swimming lots around your theshold pace, not swimming an easy pace for an hour.

While you can gain swim fitness by doing lots of volume, very few triathletes will ever come close to swimming enough to gain much fitness through volume alone.  Since swimming is not load bearing and as long as the athlete has decent form, it is unlikely they will injure themselves swimming, even if doing higher intensity swimming.

As far as rest intervals, even though it may not feel that you are training yourself for endurance swimming, unless you are taking breaks that are sufficient to allow you HR to fully recover, your body doesn't really know the difference between a straight 1500m vs 15x100m with 10" rest.  However, the 15x100m would likely allow you to maintain a slightly higher pace so you actually end up working harder to the same distance.

FWIW, I focus on OD and rarely will do swim sets longer than 400m; an occasional 1500m test (maybe 4-5 a season) will be my long workout.  However, when I am swimming regularly, most swims will be at least 2500m with a solid chunk at or above threshold.

Shane
2009-11-20 6:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
In season we do weekly 1 to 2 mile swims in the ocean. So yes, incorporating a longer swim can be beneficial (IMO)
2009-11-20 6:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
ChrisM - 2009-11-20 8:46 PM

In season we do weekly 1 to 2 mile swims in the ocean. So yes, incorporating a longer swim can be beneficial (IMO)


Chris makes a good point that I failed to mention; if you are going to do longer continuous swims, I believe they are most beneficial in OW.  This will prepare an athlete for swimming in a group, without a black line, with waves, dealing with the sun, navigating, being a long distance from shore and drafting technique.  Also, if you are swimming with others, it is likely that all but 1-2 athletes will have to work to hang onto the feet of others and will end up working hard for the duration of the swim.

Shane

2009-11-20 7:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
ChrisM - 2009-11-20 6:46 PM In season we do weekly 1 to 2 mile swims in the ocean. So yes, incorporating a longer swim can be beneficial (IMO)


i said this in the thread you linked, considering i started 1 year ago those lenghty ows gave me a giant boost.  normally i would do a continous 45-60 min swim so 1.5 -2 miles, they give me mental ability.  and let me pace myself better.
2009-11-20 7:53 PM
in reply to: #2524536

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Ironman and Half Ironman Swim Training Sets
ChrisM - 2009-11-20 6:46 PM In season we do weekly 1 to 2 mile swims in the ocean. So yes, incorporating a longer swim can be beneficial (IMO)


i said this in the thread you linked, considering i started 1 year ago those lenghty ows gave me a giant boost.  normally i would do a continous 45-60 min swim so 1.5 -2 miles, they give me mental ability.  and let me pace myself better.
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