General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Anyone know anything about titanium repair???? Rss Feed  
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2008-08-14 12:28 PM

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Subject: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????

Comedy of freaking errors this year, if I didn't laugh I'd cry. Latest is a discovery this morning of a crack... a big crack.. in my Saber frame, emanating from the seat post/top tube weld, radiating along the sides of the top tube. It's been creaking for a couple rides, thought it was the BB and/or bosses holding frame cage bolts (since it stopped when I held them). washed it last weekend, definitely would have noticed this. Even slight flexing opens the crack.

Think major damage occurred my last ride as the creaking got really bad and noisy, but was gettng ready to bring it in. Thank god it didn't disintegrate on one of te descents I've done lately.... Litespeed has a lifetime warranty, but is there anything to be done with this?





 

I really think god doesn't want me to do an IM.  seems to be throwing every obstacle he can think of in my way



2008-08-14 12:36 PM
in reply to: #1603686

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????

DUDE!  That sucks.....  Pretty much all I can say.

I'm way out of my league, but I seem to recall that titanium repairs (and general welding for that matter) is a tricky business.  Best left up to the pros at Litespeed...

Having that fail at speed?  Scary thought...

2008-08-14 12:40 PM
in reply to: #1603686

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Champion
5345
500010010010025
Carlsbad, California
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????

Man that sucks!!!!

I don't know much about Titanium other than it is tough to work on.

When I first looked at the photos, I could not figure out how the top tube would have cracked laterally like that and have it extend through 2 welded joints across the seat tube. But I would bet that the fracture point is right where your seat post ends or very close to it.

Even if it is not covered under warranty, (I suspect it is even if you did not register as long as you can prove you got it new) I would bet that Lightspeed might be able to give you a deal on either a repair or replacement frame. 

I know Cervelo has a "Crash Deal" where if you crash and/or break your frame, they will sell you one at 20% below wholesale. I thought that was quite generous but my LBS said it is not all that uncommon.  

One thing does come to mind though. I bet having a Ti Frame really saved you. if this would have been Carbon, it probably would have just failed outright without warning instead of flexing and fatiguing.



Edited by WaterDog66 2008-08-14 12:42 PM
2008-08-14 1:17 PM
in reply to: #1603720

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Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????

.

When I first looked at the photos, I could not figure out how the top tube would have cracked laterally like that and have it extend through 2 welded joints across the seat tube. But I would bet that the fracture point is right where your seat post ends or very close to it.

Took the seat posr out, and the bottom is a good 6" below the crack point

Hopefully will be covered under lifetime warranty.  Issue is timing, getting it back, training for IMAZ, etc.  I ride a 57, have a friend that has a 55 that I am sure will let me borrow (haven't asked yet), not ideal but better than nothing.

2008-08-14 1:24 PM
in reply to: #1603686

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Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????

Cracks like this are VERY difficult to fix.  (my experience comes from welding steel and aluminum but the same principles apply to Ti).

The issue is that you have no groove to place the filler material.  The best you could do is to spot welding it across the crack.  The crack would still be there but the welds would span across it and hopefully hold it together.  Not really the best option.

The best fix would be to cut out the top of the seat tube from the three tubes and rejoin them with a custom made piece.  It CAN be done...just a question of how much money you want to spend.  I'd call the manufacturer first.

I'm really surprised it broke ACROSS the weld.  Usualyl things break along the edge of a weld.

2008-08-14 1:36 PM
in reply to: #1603686

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2008-08-14 1:40 PM
in reply to: #1603686

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????
Yeah Chris, Litespeed will take care of you.
2008-08-14 1:55 PM
in reply to: #1603686

Expert
1040
100025
SF Bay Area
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????
Hey Chris, let us know what happens. I would like to see how Litespeed handles this problem. I wouldn't expect to see a crack go through the weld into the tube like that. If you start to run out of options, you might want to contact Steve Potts in Point Reyes, CA. He does repairs on Ti frames. He knows his titanium, he's a true artist. I know he was fixing a custom mtn frame just a week or so ago. He does a lot of repairs in addtion to building his own very nice stuff.

www.stevepottsbicycles.com

2008-08-14 2:14 PM
in reply to: #1603686

Expert
660
5001002525
Central New York
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????
Like some others here, I really hope that Litespeed will take care of you and honor their warranty.

My guess is that God doesn't really care one way or the other here.

He's clearly a Cervelo guy anyway.
2008-08-14 2:25 PM
in reply to: #1603686

Master
1410
1000100100100100
White Plains NY
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????
I'd go the warranty route for a new frame.

I had an aluminum Trek frame crack on me after about 5 years and I never registered the thing, but they honored it and because they weren't making that particular frame that year I was upgraded to a nicer aluminum frame.

Good luck!
2008-08-14 6:26 PM
in reply to: #1603686

Champion
8903
500020001000500100100100100
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????

Titanium can be tricky to weld for the layman or even for an experienced welder who's never done anything but carbon steel, stainless steel and aluminum.  The key is to protect the weld puddle from contamination and from introducing any oxygen into the weld.  Normal shielding gas as used in standard welding techniques for austenitic stainless steel may not be sufficient.  It's imperative to keep the weld puddle oxygen free.

I work in a weld shop and have been a certified nuclear and military welding inspector for nearly 30 years, and in all that time we have had only one guy come through our shop who was really proficient at welding titanium with the gas tungsten arc method (GTAW).

For more information on welding titanium you can look here:

http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article28.htm

Personally, I'd send it back to the company that built it before I'd allow anyone else to do weld repairs on the frame.  The propensity for cracking is just way too high.

 



2008-08-14 6:27 PM
in reply to: #1603686

Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????

under warranty, heading back to litespeed, we'll see what they say.

Hopefully they'll just replace.  not sure I could swing even an outrageous deal on a new frame. 



Edited by ChrisM 2008-08-14 6:28 PM
2008-08-14 6:50 PM
in reply to: #1603686

Master
1325
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Lake Oswego, OR
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????
My brother recently had a crack in his Lightspeed frame. They fixed it free under warranty. He did have to ride his backup in the meantime. I don't recall how long it took.
2008-08-15 7:56 AM
in reply to: #1603686

Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????
You could always let them know that there are a few hundred people who are interested in the decision that Litespeed makes.  An audience might make them ore apt to replace it free of charge.  Nothing like a little friendly pressure.
2008-08-15 8:19 AM
in reply to: #1603686

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about titanium repair????

Hopefully they'll replace it.

When I sent my Blade back, it took a good couple of months for Litespeed to repair it and get it back to me. My advice: hound them constantly.

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