General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How to run faster? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2008-08-08 11:28 AM

User image

Elite
5316
5000100100100
Alturas, California
Subject: How to run faster?
I joined BT and got off the couch nearly a year ago. Since then I have lost 30 pounds (150 now) and have completed a Spint, an Oly, a 5k, 10 mile and half mary, yay.

Now that my endurance is getting better, I was seeking advice as to how to run faster. My half mary pace was about 8:45 min mile and that was about the same speed as the 10k for my Oly. I tend to start out at 7:55 to 8 min mile pace and lose a little as the race goes on.

I am not currently doing any "speed work" or "intervals" because I am not sure how to do them, so I am wide open for information in this area. Thanks for any advice.


2008-08-08 11:29 AM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Master
1792
1000500100100252525
Subject: RE: How to run faster?
2008-08-08 11:37 AM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Master
2021
2000
Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: How to run faster?
I would suggest doing long runs, and short runs a week. Use the long runs, 9+ miles at a comfortable pace. Then, extend that run 1 mile each week. That will help build endurance, and the more endurance you have the faster your shorter stuff will become naturally.

The short runs, I keep mine around 3 miles or so, use as speed days. I try to run my short days just about wide open. Of course, do not run them wide open, or your are opening a door for injury. Keep them one or two clicks back from wide open race pace. The goal here is to teach your legs to turn-over faster.

With the combo of the two, that should help.

Personally, I do 3x runs a week. a 5K, 10K, and then a long run. I have seen a great improvement in my run splits during this season. My 5K splits during a race have gone from 7:55/mile to 7:30/mile, to 7:15/mile (4 miles) and my fastest 5K split was 6:09/mile.

I hope that helps.....
2008-08-08 11:39 AM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Elite
3371
200010001001001002525
Subject: RE: How to run faster?

Intervals are your answer.  Which type of intervals depends on what distance race you're focusing on.  For a 5k, intervals will range between 200 and 800 meters.  For a marathon, 2 mile intervals are often done.  Regardless, intervals should be done with a short rest between each.  Never allowing yourself to reach a resting heart rate.

 ETA:  Also google fartlek.  This would help too.



Edited by steveseer 2008-08-08 11:40 AM
2008-08-08 11:40 AM
in reply to: #1590080

User image

Champion
9060
5000200020002525
Charlottesville, Virginia
Subject: RE: How to run faster?

My Sprint to Olympic plan here has me doing short, long, tempo and speed runs.  I have dropped a minute/mile since I started.

My long runs I run well over what I would in a race.  Speed runs tend to be faster or at a 5k pace.

I was amazed at how much faster I got by using this mix of runs in my workout.  Granted I was slow before so YMMV on 1 minute faster results...

2008-08-08 11:43 AM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Subject: RE: How to run faster?

If you want a cheap way that's non-technical and will help, this is what I did to go from about 10:00/miles to 8:00/miles

There are three cul-de-sacs around   my house.  Together they're about 1/2 mile or so.  Before running I jog at about a 10-12 minute mile up the first one then walk back down.  Jog about 9-10 minute miles up the second, walk back and then 5-6 minute mile up the third then walk back down. 

 At the end of the main set of all runs I do the three cul-de-sacs again, backwards.  Going up the fast one I try to hit my heels on my butt (high rear kick) each step for two driveways.  After the second driveway I try to hit myself in the chest with my knees each step for another driveway.  During the walk back I do the kicking as well.

 Just from the kicking my run dropped a bit.

If you want more, find yourself about a 1/2 mile gradual hill.  On your short run days run your butt off up the hill then walk back down it.  Repeat for the entire run time.  That'll help a lot too.

I've never been able to run worth a damn but these two little things have gotten me into 8 minute miles again for the first time in about 10 years since I got out of the Army. 



2008-08-08 11:43 AM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Sneaky Slow
8694
500020001000500100252525
Herndon, VA,
Subject: RE: How to run faster?

Probably some good tips in these threads too...


Article: To Run Faster, Triathletes should drop cycling and swimming871885Stephen T 2008-05-15 4:59 PM

Need to get faster on the run...12456cdom 2008-02-26 12:38 AM

Questions related to "Help me run faster"8313stuartjeff 2007-10-22 5:13 PM

How do I run faster?30706susanp 2007-10-22 1:11 PM

Will corporate sponsorship help you run faster?14372RedCorvette 2007-10-13 5:17 AM

I need to run faster....13487agaliza 2007-05-22 5:03 PM

I Wanna Run Faster: Please Critique7456Git-tRi-Done 2006-05-26 4:33 PM

Run Faster?17333Blacktoe 2004-11-09 11:04 AM

How to Run Faster?6193soupaman 2004-06-23 10:06 PM

 

2008-08-08 12:05 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Subject: RE: How to run faster?

Treadmill worked reasonably well for me.  Start slow and slowly speed up.  Very week or so, up another notch.  Commit to a distance and hammer it on the dreadmill.  It will teach your neuromuscular system how to keep a constant pace at a faster cadence - in english: It will help you have quicker feet.  Slowly lengthen your runs also so you'll improve your endurance and lung capacity to boot.

Also, since you've lost a ton of weight, maybe it's time for some racing flats or ultra-light weight trainers.  Look for a brand shoe that you know works for you, and then try and find a model that's around 8oz.  Moving from a heavy 13oz trainer to a 6 oz racing flat helped me go from 8:15 miles to 7:30.  Of course it was really me and my training, but a cushy racing flat or ultra-light trainer encourages a quicker cadence, the dynamics of the shoe also encourage you run at a higher tempo, and it will also allow you to feel the road more which (for me) makes for a better running experience and helps me to maintain my form - which translates into better times and keeps me from dying at the end of my runs.  But make sure you slowly work a lighter shoe into your regular training regiment.  Wear them for short tempo work-outs at first. 

Good Luck.

2008-08-08 12:08 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Tyler,
Subject: RE: How to run faster?

You answered the question in your question...run faster lol.  ok seriously,

It's depending on your distance now that you've established a good base (aerobic running) now you need to gradually increase into running faster. So everying 5 days or so do a hill workout or tempo run for the next 2-3 months.

Tempo run example: 2x10 minutes just under lactate threshold..( you know that feeing that burns and weighs your legs down)

Hill work: Find a hill or incline on a treadmill that you can run up for 3 minutes. Repeat this about 4x to start off with and add about 2 every week or two weeks until your like running it 10-12x depending on your fitness.

then after this introduce yourself to intervals. No matter if your training for a 5k distance or a marathon you will benefit from a wide range of intervals however you will benefit more by focusing in on the specifics though and a lil' bit of the "non specifics"

 so for a 5k you would start off with something like a 5x1000 meters with a 400m jog in between, the last few weeks of your season, you running freaking 12x400 meters very fast with a 100/200m jog in between. For a marathon you would some something like 3x2 miles, 10x1 mile of course the pace is  a bit slower, but you will still benefit by doing 20x400s or so. During the "interval" or "speed work" phase you need to still do your tempo runs once every 10-14 days and a long run as wel.  Of course all of this depends on how fit you are and thats something I don't know.

2008-08-08 12:29 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Extreme Veteran
739
50010010025
Westlake, OH
Subject: RE: How to run faster?

IMHO - if your logs are up to date, (about 10 miles / week) you should just concentrate on running more and start running more often per week. 

BTW, its not a surprise that your open 1/2 mary pace = your 10k oly pace.  That fits the general rule of thumb that i've seen that your tri pace will be = to your open pace of the next distance. 

ie tri 5k = open 10k.  tri 10k = open 1/2 mary.  HIM = open mary. 

2008-08-08 12:36 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Champion
7233
5000200010010025
Subject: RE: How to run faster?
if you are only running in the 10mpw range you need to be running more. i would not even consider intervals until you are running over 20 miles a week, you are just asking to get hurt. you need to slowly start upping your milage and you will see results. also see below.


this is from one of the running articles posted by BarryP over on slowtwitch. the dude knows his stuff, if you like this or want more, check out his other posts here: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1612485;search_string=r...


-----------------------------------------------------------------
THE ANSWER: Run slower. Run more often. Run more.

If you are rolling your eyes right now it's either because A) you get it and know you get it (and don't need to hear it yet again) or B) you don't get it and don't know you don't get it (and don't want th hear it agin)......; ^ ) However I've read a few responses on the board this year and got a few PMs from people who have had great success by adopting this training regime for their running. I'll lead off with a disclaimer and say that this may not be the answer that YOU are looking for (especially if you already are a strong runner), but it has helped a lot of struggling runners.


It seems to me that most triathletes don't come from a running background. Most runners who excell at running tend to stick with running as their are pleanty of opportunities to contiue to compete while maintaining a normal lifestyle. So it seems like a lot of folks either come to triathlon from a swimmers/cyclists background or just jumped in with both feet from no background. So, the introduction of running comes not as a single program that one can dedicate 100% of their time to, but as part of a larger program (triathlon) where the time must be shared.

That's the first issue. The second issue is coming into running with a familiarity of swimming/cycling. Physiologically the endurance sports are very similar, but I believe there is one major difference. Most people (*most*) can't get away with pounding through workouts the way they may have become accustomed to while swimming or cycling.

I've been learning this from the other side of the equation. After barely getting into shape on the bike, I jumped into my first ever "A group" ride last night. After a short warmup we started pace lining, then climbed a HUGE hill, then chased a break, recovered, and chase a break again. I hammered for well over an hour while logging in 2 1/2 hours of riding. It felt great!!

As I headed home I remember thinking, "There's no way in hell an out of shape person should ever jump into a *running* workout of that magnitude." Running just simply isn't as forgiving as swimming or cycling. If you are unprepared, pounding through hard, fast paced workouts will BEAT YOU UP. They *can* be done, but only after the proper foundations have been laid.....and that takes months (even years!).


THE SOLUTION:

Running is primarily about raising your body's ability to tolerate heavy stress. The easiest, most efficient way (arguably) is to run a lot!.....or in the case of the struggling runner, RUN MORE. The more you run, the more time your body is stimulated to improve its "endurance" and the more time your body builds a resistance to stress.

The easist way to run more is to A) SLOW DOWN and B) RUN MORE OFTEN. You don't slow down for the sake of slowing down or run more often for the sake of running more often. You do it so that you can run more. If you struggle with running and typically get 2 runs of 45min-1:30 at 85% of max heart rate (Gordo's Moderately Hard zone), instead try running 6 times at 65%-80% of max heart rate ("steady" or even "easy"). Each run can be as short as 15 minutes. Once you get used to 6 short easy runs a week, gradually build the distance of 2 or 3 of them. Start off running no more pre week than you currently do, and then add 15 minutes a week over the course of several months until you get to 3, 4, ....as much as 5 hours a week of running (admittedly this may not be a "well balanced program".....but if you struggle on the run, you may need to shift your training to be "run heavy").

For the Ney Sayers out there, correct, this is not the end all be all of run training. Intensity is needed to achieve peak fitness. Time limitations can become an issue. Many have succeeded on a "hard all the time approach." However this is targeted at the struggling runner who has never tried a high mileage, high freduency, low effort approach. 9 times out of 10 I find this to be a neccessary 1st step in building a foundation for one's career as a runner. I highly recommend giving it a try for a good 4 month block and see the results.

Edited by newbz 2008-08-08 12:40 PM


2008-08-08 12:48 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Tyler,
Subject: RE: How to run faster?
yeah I have to agree with the other post if your only running 10mpw....that needs to be bumped a lot....but GRADUALLY! The rule of thumb is 10% a week.
2008-08-08 12:48 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: How to run faster?

This is generic and I'm sure could be refined but will get you moving forward and provide you with long-lasting results: 

First, start running more gradually.  Aim for 4-6 runs per week and get your weekly mileage consistently in the 20-30mi range.  The more you can handle within your schedule, the better (and, eventually, there's no reason for the 30mi cap other than from where you are now based on your logs that should keep you busy for awhile).  Remember the gradually part as you want to be able to safely maintain that volume.  And run easy.

Second, even as you are building that mileage you can do some strides* during one of those runs.  Start with just a few (maybe 4-6) and build up to more (maybe 10-12).  That's your 'speed' work.

Third, AFTER you've built up to a steady weekly volume and maintained that for several weeks then add in a tempo run.  If you're running 20-30 miles, this need be no longer than 2-3 miles per week of running at 10k-half marathon pace effort.  Include it as part of any of your other weekly runs using a 'warm-up' and 'cool-down' of a couple miles.

Repeat all of that for a few months, replacing your tempo run with a 5k or 10k every now and then.  Adjust your tempo (and easy) pace based on those race results.

You will get 'faster' (actually what you are doing is building endurance, which is really what you need).  After doing all that, you may want to pick a race to really 'gun for' and set a PR.  THEN you can look at doing some 'intervals' for about 6-8 weeks in order to peak for that race.  But don't worry about that yet.

 

* For strides, run at ~5k-pace focusing on quick turnover and good form for about 30 seconds (I generally just count 45 left, or right, footfalls).  You can do these within a longer run or do a 'set' where you run for 30" and then walk or jog very lightly for 45-60 seconds between each rep.  You should be warmed-up before doing the strides so do them in the middle or end of a run.

 

Edit:  For far more detail from a more valuable source, check out the link to those BarryP threads.



Edited by JohnnyKay 2008-08-08 12:49 PM
2008-08-08 12:55 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Subject: RE: How to run faster?

Coming from a running background, I'll agree with newbz 100%.  I failed to look at your logs.  I would recommend running at least 15 to 20 miles a week, and the key to doing that is "repeatability".  You may not have to slow down, but you need to run at a pace and intensity that will allow you to run repeatedly throughout the week without breaking your body down too much.  Often times this means running slower than what you run now.  I didn't break into the 6 minute mile area until I did single long runs of 15+ miles and averaged 30+ miles per week.    And to run those numbers and distances I had to do so at a comfortable pace. 

Despite a few setbacks this week (my son had his tonsils out and I donated blood) I am training for the Philly Marathon and a HIM in October.   What I am going to attempt to do is A.) Make running my priority discipline B.) Use Swimming and Biking as recovery tools for my running.  As mentioned, swimming and biking is low impact on the body whereas running is brutal on the mucles, joints, tendons ...etc...   Perhaps adopting the same strategy/philosophy of making running your priority discipline and using swimming and cycling as recovery tools will help you become a faster runner while keeping you ready to go for Triathlons?  just a suggestion...

 

2008-08-08 1:01 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: How to run faster?
Volume, frequency, consistency.  Those are the keys.
2008-08-08 5:14 PM
in reply to: #1590049

User image

Elite
5316
5000100100100
Alturas, California
Subject: RE: How to run faster?
Thanks for all the responses. My current logs are not typical as I have been on vacation and have driven 4600 miles in the car over the plast 3 ish weeks and had a taper pre and post my Oly on 7/27. That has cut into workout time a bit.

What I was doing before vacation was more like 23-27 miles per week running, typically a 4, 8 and 13 mile runs, but all at around 9 min mile pace with the long run being maybe 10 min pace.

I had to go a little swim heavy in July cuz my swimming sucked and I needed it for the Oly, but I should be back on schedule for next week.

It sounds like I can start doing some lite interval or hill work on my short run, keep the rest the same and take it from there.

Endurance wize I can jog 13-16 miles, bike 50 to 65 miles and swim 1.5 miles ish before I am beat (not on the same day).

My next goals are a full mary and a half IM.


New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How to run faster? Rss Feed