General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster? Rss Feed  
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2008-08-31 8:50 AM

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Subject: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
I have been swimming on a year-round swim team since last August. Before that, I did a couple seasons of my school's team and a couple seasons of a summer league swim team.

My swim practices are normaly about 5 days/week and I normally swim 1.5-2 hours each pracitice.

I have managed to occasionally take a few seconds off my times in meets, but nothing hugely dramatic. For the past couple years I have been swimming at a speed of about 2:00-2:10/100 yards in practice. I thought, with all the dedication I have been putting into swimming, that my speed would improve, at least a little more than it has been. My normal practice speed has not budged.

Any ideas of what I am doing wrong in practice? Is it a techinque issue? Do I need to start lifting weights? Any other ideas? Am I just destined to be really slow forever?

Thanks for the thoughts.


2008-08-31 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?

What does the swim team's coach have to say?  Has this person looked at your stroke?  Have you discussed your concerns with your coach?

 

2008-08-31 9:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?

Absolutely no way of knowing based on the information given. As stated above you need to talk with the coach...

Eric J

2008-08-31 9:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?

amyro1234 - 2008-08-31 8:50 AM I have been swimming on a year-round swim team since last August. Before that, I did a couple seasons of my school's team and a couple seasons of a summer league swim team. My swim practices are normaly about 5 days/week and I normally swim 1.5-2 hours each pracitice. I have managed to occasionally take a few seconds off my times in meets, but nothing hugely dramatic. For the past couple years I have been swimming at a speed of about 2:00-2:10/100 yards in practice. I thought, with all the dedication I have been putting into swimming, that my speed would improve, at least a little more than it has been. My normal practice speed has not budged. Any ideas of what I am doing wrong in practice? Is it a techinque issue? Do I need to start lifting weights? Any other ideas? Am I just destined to be really slow forever? Thanks for the thoughts.

based on the bolded parts that's my guess, most swimmers avg 1:30+ min per 100 yds need to work on technique over endurance. over 2 min per 100 yds you definitely need to work a lot on technique. I am a bit confused though, you mentioned you go to swim practice 5x a week, you dont get any feedback from a coach? I would look into getting some one-on-one with a swim coach or at the very least get my swim stroke video analyzed. BTW, you don't need to lift weights, swimming is about technique and endurance, strenght has nothing to do with it...

2008-08-31 6:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
KenD - 2008-08-31 10:03 AM

What does the swim team's coach have to say?  Has this person looked at your stroke?  Have you discussed your concerns with your coach?

 



I haven't discussed my concerns extensivly with my coach, but he has looked at my stoke a few times in practice before. I remember him saying something like I was swimming "flat". I also think he had said something about not getting my elbows high enough. I didn't realize these things were slowing me down so much, but I guess they must be.

I remeber one time we were doing a drill over how many stokes it took to get across the pool. Everybody on the team averaged somewhere around the mid to upper teens. I was in the lower thirties!

Are there any good drills I can do to correct these flaws? What exactly does swimming "flat" mean? Are these two stroke issues what are slowing me down so much, or could something else be causing this too?

I guess I should talk to my coach once swim season starts again next week (we are currantly on our annual two week break right now), but thanks for giving me some additional input. It has been helpful to know that this is a stroke problem and not something else. I had no idea what my problem was!
2008-08-31 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
Watch your other swimmers, and then swim and just try to be very aware of what your doing compared to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A5m9H8ujvQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBxlphJBIcM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUULNJEdKU8


2008-08-31 6:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
Sounds to me like you need a new coach. I mean, at the time he looked at your stroke, he should have given you drills to correct the flat swimming and not high elbows. Sheesh! My favorite drill is fingertip drag. I put together a bunch of drills on this page a while back...

http://swimstrokevideo.com/swim-drills/
2008-08-31 6:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?

amyro1234 - 2008-08-31 4:26 PM I haven't discussed my concerns extensivly with my coach, but he has looked at my stoke a few times in practice before. I remember him saying something like I was swimming "flat". I also think he had said something about not getting my elbows high enough. I didn't realize these things were slowing me down so much, but I guess they must be. I remeber one time we were doing a drill over how many stokes it took to get across the pool. Everybody on the team averaged somewhere around the mid to upper teens. I was in the lower thirties! Are there any good drills I can do to correct these flaws? What exactly does swimming "flat" mean? Are these two stroke issues what are slowing me down so much, or could something else be causing this too? I guess I should talk to my coach once swim season starts again next week (we are currantly on our annual two week break right now), but thanks for giving me some additional input. It has been helpful to know that this is a stroke problem and not something else. I had no idea what my problem was!

 

Most likely you need to hone your technique to efficiently swim. From the bolded part, it might've seen that you're not reaching far enough. Do some pull drills and concentrate on the stroke taking as much time as you can. As for the elbows, make sure that when your pulling the water underwater, don't let your shoulder drop all the way down. I'm sure you will be able to practice these with the videos and information others have provided as a guide. Otherwise, we can't really tell what specifically needs improvement unless your coach supervises the way you swim.

2008-08-31 7:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?

Do you do any speed drills? Like fast 50's on the minute (with rest being only til the top of the minute)?

Nice easy paces are great for endurance but perhaps added speed drills would enable your body to adjust to race type demands (lungs/muscles).

 

2008-08-31 7:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
Whew! With a high stroke count like that be careful about trying to incorporate speed. You may injure a shoulder (BTDT). Your stroke needs to be more efficient. Your coach is not doing a great job with you, sorry: you might want to ask someone else to look at you, and if possible, get video analysis, viewed from underwater. Good luck! I feel your pain!
2008-08-31 8:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
As a coach (entirely different sport) I would never tell an athlete what they are doing wrong without making sure they understand what I'm saying and working with them to find ways to improve that.  I think you need to find a different coach or have a one-on-one with this coach to discuss your needs as an athlete and see if maybe there is a misunderstanding there. 


2008-08-31 8:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?

BabsVa - 2008-08-31 8:45 PM Whew! With a high stroke count like that be careful about trying to incorporate speed. You may injure a shoulder (BTDT). Your stroke needs to be more efficient. Your coach is not doing a great job with you, sorry: you might want to ask someone else to look at you, and if possible, get video analysis, viewed from underwater. Good luck! I feel your pain!

I couldn't agree more!

With a stroke count that high, you definitely need to work closely with a coach focusing on technique.  Practicing inefficient technique 5 times a week, you will never get faster.  All you will accomplish is cause those same inefficient habits to become more ingrained.

Without being able to see your stroke or talking to you in more detail, I'd guess that when you pull your arm through the water that you don't feel as if you are pushing against anything solid.  With decent technique, you will feel almost as if you are pulling yourself along the length of 2 invisible ropes running from one end of the pool to the other.  (2 ropes side-by-side, because if your hands are crossing your body far enough to grab a single rope running down the center of your body you will be more prone to shoulder injury.)  The first time you "feel" the water is the most amazing thing you'll ever experience swimming.  Your stroke count and your lap times will both drop dramatically over night.



Edited by TriMyBest 2008-08-31 8:41 PM
2008-08-31 8:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
WOW I'm normally more of a lurker BUT this post is MAKING me post---as both a former swimmer and swim coach I'm blown away by a stroke count of 30+ and a coach doing nothing for you!!  That's horrible.  You clearly have some issues with your stroke (from a technical stand point) because you are NOT pulling any water if you're going 30 strokes for a lap.  Could be one or two major problems causing this or a handful of small problems that really add up to lost effort.  If your coach can't/won't help it's time to go elsewhere because if you are willing to put in that kind of effort so should they!!!
2008-08-31 8:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
IMO, definitely a technique issue. With the amount of time you are investing in your swimming you should invest in some serious underwater video stroke analysis from the best expert you can find. I don't believe putting in thousands of yards a week practicing bad technique does anything good.
2008-09-01 7:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
2008-09-01 9:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
I'd ask some of your fellow swim teamers for stroke help.  Find someone that is willing and able to work with you and get you some results.  Your coach sounds lame, or at least not interested in working with a BOP swimmer.  Pick up a copy of TI (Total Immersion).  It will at least get you thinking more about your form.


2008-09-01 3:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
Thanks for all the info! The books and videos have been really helpful!

Just to let you know, it is not my coach's fault I am so slow. He offers a "stroke clinic" you can sign up for twice a month. It lasts for half an hour, and there are 6 swimmers in each clinic. This is where the coach offers more individualized attention.

I have been busy though, and thinking they were not that important, I haven't been going to very many. I will definitely go to more of these clinics in the future!

P.S. That underwater video thing sounds really neat. Where can you get it done and how much does it cost?
2008-09-01 3:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
TriMyBest - 2008-08-31 9:21 PM
I'd guess that when you pull your arm through the water that you don't feel as if you are pushing against anything solid.  With decent technique, you will feel almost as if you are pulling yourself along the length of 2 invisible ropes running from one end of the pool to the other.  (2 ropes side-by-side, because if your hands are crossing your body far enough to grab a single rope running down the center of your body you will be more prone to shoulder injury.)  The first time you "feel" the water is the most amazing thing you'll ever experience swimming.  Your stroke count and your lap times will both drop dramatically over night.


Wow! That sounds like an incredible feeling!

What would I have to change about my stoke to get this feeling? Is it the fact that I am swimming too "flat"?
2008-09-01 4:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming 5X/week and not getting faster?
amyro1234 - 2008-09-01 4:18 PM
TriMyBest - 2008-08-31 9:21 PM I'd guess that when you pull your arm through the water that you don't feel as if you are pushing against anything solid.  With decent technique, you will feel almost as if you are pulling yourself along the length of 2 invisible ropes running from one end of the pool to the other.  (2 ropes side-by-side, because if your hands are crossing your body far enough to grab a single rope running down the center of your body you will be more prone to shoulder injury.)  The first time you "feel" the water is the most amazing thing you'll ever experience swimming.  Your stroke count and your lap times will both drop dramatically over night.

 

Wow! That sounds like an incredible feeling! What would I have to change about my stoke to get this feeling? Is it the fact that I am swimming too "flat"?

It's hard to say without seeing you swim, but even if I could, I'd still recommend you spend form quality time with a good coach.  Just because someone has a competitive swimming background, doesn't mean they would be good at analyzing your stroke.  What works for one person won't work for everyone.  Just watch the Olympic swimmers.  Even though they're all crazy-fast, some have far from a textbook stroke.

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