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Slacker Style Training - minimum training
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 2009-08-14 9:44 AM |
 17 |  Subject: Slacker Style Training - minimum trainingWhat do you think is the minimum amount of training required to finish an IM in sub-13:00? I am, obviously, new here. My goal is to finish the Florida IM in <13, but I am not training too much. No injuries, just limited time for a million reasons. If I can train a bit more than the Poconos, do you think I can make sub 13? Please say there are other "light" trainers out there who do not blast 20 mile runs after 100 mile bikes every weekend. I signed up for the Poconos Big Bear Half Iron last year knowing I would not have much time to train, and finished in 6:10 in May. Swim - 35 min Bike - 3:30 Run - 2:05 Here was my training from Dec - May: Swam: 2 open ocean swims for 1 hour; 5 sessions in a pool for 20-30 mins each Biked: 10 times on a trainer for 20-60 minutes, 5 times on the road for an hour each time Run: 10 runs over 10 miles each; 20 runs from 3-6 miles I plan on 2 100-mile rides between now and Nov. I plan on 2 15-18 mile runs. Swimming, to me, is a joke, since my pace is the same for a 100, 500, 0r 1000. I do not care about swimming too much. I was a former D-1 pole vaulter, so slacking is in my genetics. How little can one do for good results? I am sure there are those whose weeks exceed my 6 months. "If there were no minimum standards, there would be no minimum." Basho - the great Chinese philosopher |
| 2009-08-14 10:03 AM in reply to: #2348353 |
Not a Coach 11473     Media, PA | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training The answer to your question is unknowable, of course. However, I think your odds of you breaking 13 hours are nearly nil. |
| 2009-08-14 10:39 AM in reply to: #2348353 |
| Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training There are some sports you can fake, some that you can get by with minimum output. After about OLY distance, triathlons are not sports you can fake. You have to put in the time. |
| 2009-08-14 10:56 AM in reply to: #2348353 |
Extreme Veteran 580 | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training Are you athletically genetically blessed like those kids who were intellectually blessed that I went to school with -- those that never studied yet made straight As? Did that still work for you in college (where it catches up with a lot of people)? Edited by irondreams 2009-08-14 10:57 AM |
| 2009-08-14 11:40 AM in reply to: #2348405 |
Champion 5495 Whizzzzzlandia Silver member | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training JohnnyKay - 2009-08-14 10:03 AM The answer to your question is unknowable, of course. However, I think your odds of you breaking 13 hours are nearly nil. I would concur. Good Luck! |
| 2009-08-14 12:30 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
Veteran 202 Broad Brook | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training I don't want to sound harsh, but if you did the HIM in 6:10 your chances of a sub 13 are very slim. With your limited amount of training the IM will be a sufferfest or a DNF |
| 2009-08-14 12:37 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
Master 1610 Kirkland, WA | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training i don't get why you would even want to put yourself on the start line w/o training much. if you want to do minimal training, stick with sprints and OLY's and have fun with it. long course races will be not fun at all if you haven't trained, and you are much more likely to get injured. |
| 2009-08-14 1:22 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
Champion 5782 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training At 6:10 for a half, best case scenario for a full (on a comparatively forgiving course like IMFL) is probably 13:20. How do you gain those 20+ minutes you're looking for? Answer: Train a lot harder than you did for your half, not just "a bit". If you're married to a sub-13 goal, looking for a shortcut isn't going to get you there. Just to give you a reality check: My 3:04 first HIM ride turned into a 6:43 first IM ride on the same course (x2, obviously) a year later. Now the IMFL bike course will be a lot flatter than your HIM in the Poconos, but you'll need more than just a couple 100 mile rides to make the kind of improvement you're looking for. |
| 2009-08-14 1:30 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
Champion 7558 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training How long would break down the day to achieve a <13 hour goal? Based on those splits, how close are you to being able to do them individually? How confident are you that you can complete these distances at any speed? How much time and how hard are you willing to work to close the gap between today's capability and the <13 hour finish? The good news is there are guys on BT who've gone 10 hours (plus/minus) on average monthly volumes of 30 hours or so, but I'd hardly call them "slackers." They have very focused, and very disiplined training plans. |
| 2009-08-14 5:43 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
Master 2411 Goodyear, AZ | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training I recently read Gale Bernhardts book "Training plans for multi sport athletes", she has 2 chapters in her book that relate to this: 13 weeks to a sub-13 hour Ironman and 13 weeks to an Ironman for athletes with limited time. Just from scanning these plans (I'm not following them), it looks like the former maxes out at around 16 hours per week and the latter at 13 hours per week. In talking about the "limited time" plan, she says it is more for those just wanting to finish the Ironman under the cutoff times. I'm training for my first Ironman, and I get a month at a time from my coach so I cant say for sure what my big weeks will look like yet. There are tons of plans and books out there, take a look and see what you feel will fit in with your available training time and you never know! Good luck! |
| 2009-08-17 7:58 AM in reply to: #2348353 |
| 28 | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training Look at "Be Iron Fit" by Don Fink It's all about training with limited time. I trained with this plan for IMLP. You can't be a slacker but you can train efficiently. Whether or not you can finish in 13hrs not for me to say. Why 13hrs? If you have limited training time but want to finish an IM maybe think about adjusting your goals. |
| 2009-08-18 8:08 AM in reply to: #2348353 |
| 17 | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training The 13 hours to finish an IM is another bet I intend to win. The first bet was whether <6:30 in the HIM Poconos could be broken, and I want to win every wager I bet. Thank you very much for the plans you mentioned. I am on them. I think that natural athletes can train for 13 weeks and go sub 13:. These plans prove it. What also proves it, is the fact that some people, even on this little old board, think it cannot be done. What I really want to know is what is the least you have trained (volume wise, not effort or quality), or some dude whom you know for a fact, and not some urban legend, who has trained with low volume and finished in sub 13? There has to be someone who is a natural athlete, who worked hard, but for <8-12 hours / week for 13 weeks and went sub 13? Knowing this board, I bet there are at least a few people, both ladies and boys, who can put in 10 quality hours a week for 3 months and go sub 11. I cannot, and wont, but they must be out there. Here is my DiffEQ: Freaks + effort + 10 hrs / wk = <11 |
| 2009-08-18 8:37 AM in reply to: #2355111 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training singlemalt - 2009-08-18 9:08 AM The 13 hours to finish an IM is another bet I intend to win. The first bet was whether <6:30 in the HIM Poconos could be broken, and I want to win every wager I bet. Thank you very much for the plans you mentioned. I am on them. I think that natural athletes can train for 13 weeks and go sub 13:. These plans prove it. What also proves it, is the fact that some people, even on this little old board, think it cannot be done. What I really want to know is what is the least you have trained (volume wise, not effort or quality), or some dude whom you know for a fact, and not some urban legend, who has trained with low volume and finished in sub 13? There has to be someone who is a natural athlete, who worked hard, but for <8-12 hours / week for 13 weeks and went sub 13? Knowing this board, I bet there are at least a few people, both ladies and boys, who can put in 10 quality hours a week for 3 months and go sub 11. I cannot, and wont, but they must be out there. Here is my DiffEQ: Freaks + effort + 10 hrs / wk = <11 I know of a few people who have broken 13 hours on less than 10hrs/wk. Some "freaks", most with some experience in triathlon (or at least one of the individual sports) that they could leverage into a decent finishing time. So I'm not telling you it can't be done. In telling you that your chances are "nearly nil", I simply setting the proper betting odds. But perhaps you are one of those "freaks" who will do it. Good luck. |
| 2009-08-18 9:02 AM in reply to: #2355111 |
Master 1790 Tyler, TX | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training singlemalt - 2009-08-18 8:08 AM The 13 hours to finish an IM is another bet I intend to win. The first bet was whether <6:30 in the HIM Poconos could be broken, and I want to win every wager I bet. Thank you very much for the plans you mentioned. I am on them. I think that natural athletes can train for 13 weeks and go sub 13:. These plans prove it. What also proves it, is the fact that some people, even on this little old board, think it cannot be done. What I really want to know is what is the least you have trained (volume wise, not effort or quality), or some dude whom you know for a fact, and not some urban legend, who has trained with low volume and finished in sub 13? There has to be someone who is a natural athlete, who worked hard, but for <8-12 hours / week for 13 weeks and went sub 13? Knowing this board, I bet there are at least a few people, both ladies and boys, who can put in 10 quality hours a week for 3 months and go sub 11. I cannot, and wont, but they must be out there. Here is my DiffEQ: Freaks + effort + 10 hrs / wk = <11 You seem to be the type that get's motivated by people saying you can't do something. Just for that reason my money says you break 13 hrs, assuming you don't choose an overy hilly or hot IM. Keep your training closer to 12 hrs a week rather than 8, and add a few longer weeks in there, you may very well have a shot. Good luck! Brian |
| 2009-08-18 9:04 AM in reply to: #2355188 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training JohnnyKay - 2009-08-18 9:37 AM I know of a few people who have broken 13 hours on less than 10hrs/wk. Some "freaks", most with some experience in triathlon (or at least one of the individual sports) that they could leverage into a decent finishing time. So I'm not telling you it can't be done. In telling you that your chances are "nearly nil", I simply setting the proper betting odds. But perhaps you are one of those "freaks" who will do it. Good luck. I'm not a freak! I'm just ....... different!  To the OP. Yes, I did a 12:20 at IMLP on 6 weeks of intensive training. During that time I was in the 12 - 15 hour range. Before that I barely would get to 8 hours in a good week. But I'm also a 3:12 marathon runner (who was trained for a sub-3 before getting sick just 4 months before LP running 200+ miles a month) and can ride a 5 hour flat century solo without blinking an eye in most cases. In other words, I had 20 years of endurance sports training as a base to work from. And I was a 4:55 HIM finisher. Without that sort of endurance base? It is very highly unlikely that you could fake your way through an IM in a decent time. Impossible? Of course not, but everything would have to go well. |
| 2009-08-24 10:44 AM in reply to: #2348871 |
| Veteran 371 | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training My half iron PR is 6:13 (and my 2nd best is 6:27) and I have 2 sub 13 hr IM finishes under my belt - one being LP, so not an easy course. I am by NO means genetically gifted or even especially athletic. I took marching band as my high school PE credit b/c I couldn't make any sports teams! And I am a horrible slacker when it comes to training. I finished IM Austria in 12 :53 averaging 10 miles a week running for the entire training period, and about 65 miles a week on the bike. No, no injuries (yes, I suck) I'm just posting this to say it can be done. It will hurt, but it can be done. But I really DON'T RECOMMEND IT. If you're training isn't there, you might get lucky, or you might suffer or even worse, get injured. For me, that was the old me and I'm coming into IMWI this year much better prepared. And I'm much prouder of that than I am of my 'slacker' finishes. |
| 2009-08-24 5:57 PM in reply to: #2355111 |
| Regular 106 SF Bay Area, California | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training singlemalt - 2009-08-18 8:08 AM ...There has to be someone who is a natural athlete, who worked hard, but for <8-12 hours / week for 13 weeks and went sub 13? Okay, over twenty years ago I did IMCanada in 11:57, if I remember correctly. I was young, 6 years out from being a sub 2:40 Marathoner in college, and I was/am a BOP swimmer. I averaged about 6-7 hours per week but, some weeks I did a 100 mile ride. Every couple weeks I would have a 14 hour week because of the long bike trip followed by a couple 7 hour weeks without any long rides. Typically I had two rest days per week. I probably could have gone much faster had I put in more time. Now I would love to have the base I used to have. |
| 2009-08-24 6:13 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
Master 1572 PA | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training Ask JorgeM. I believe Personal Best Multisport Coaching has a guy they coach that only trains 10 hours/week and was just 4th OA at IMLP this year. Make your hours count....no less than tempo on anything if you're not putting in much time. |
| 2009-08-25 10:37 AM in reply to: #2348353 |
Master 1547 | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training |
| 2009-08-26 11:39 AM in reply to: #2348353 |
| Alpharetta, GA | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training Try plugging your info into this to get a guestimate of what your time could be. At least it will point you in the correct direction of what you will need to do over the next couple months to reach your 13 hr goal. http://www.triathloncalculator.com/ |
| 2009-08-26 4:48 PM in reply to: #2371835 |
Expert 713 Lake in the Hills, IL | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training bschulte - 2009-08-26 11:39 AM Try plugging your info into this to get a guestimate of what your time could be. At least it will point you in the correct direction of what you will need to do over the next couple months to reach your 13 hr goal. http://www.triathloncalculator.com/ I looked at that calculator and it said I would ride 13 mph! I don't know if I could keep the bike upright at that speed. My long rides have all been at about 19 mph and that was not pushing it. Can't say I trust the calculation very much. |
| 2009-08-26 5:01 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
Champion 5495 Whizzzzzlandia Silver member | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training Yeah, it gave me an 11 mph average on the bike too... and my training rides have been 17-18 mph depending on terrain. |
 2009-08-26 5:49 PM in reply to: #2355111 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-08-26 6:05 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
| Master 1686 Royersford, PA | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training I'm actually going to say you may actually have better chance than most people think. First off the Black Bear was the hardest HIM I have ever done, with an absolutely brutal bike leg. My HIM PR is 5:26 and I went 6:17 at Black Bear this year. If you are looking at doing IMFL which is flat as they get, well I went 13:17 in 2006 on 7-11 hours per week training. I certainly would not consider myself a natural athlete. I focused most of my efforts on my weakest leg (the bike) and spent minimal time on the swim. I also typically do not do long rides or long runs due to limited time on the weekends (time with my family is more important). I rarely run over 13 miles or bike over 40 miles. I had run 2 full marathons and done 1 century ride prior to IMFL to put my mind at ease that I could cover the distance, but in the 3 IMs since I rarely went over those distances unless it was in a race. So could you go sub 13 at IMFL, I think you have a decent shot assuming you execute your race, pacing, and nutrition properly. |
| 2009-08-30 5:24 PM in reply to: #2348353 |
| 17 | Subject: RE: Slacker Style Training - minimum training There are 2 types of people who post slacker-style questions here: 1. People who swam once in 9th grade and wonder if they can pull off a HIM 2. People who will never do 2x days, but have the will to finish a race with a fair amount of effort. It is axiomatic that this thread has its supporters and dis-believers. Putting in 8-13 hours a week with at least 3 100 mile bikes, 3 15 mile runs, and some long swims is not slacker. Putting in 3 hour weeks is slacker style, regardless of whether you are bad former podium boy, or named lance. I appreciate all of your advice and your links to legitimate 8-13 hour training plans. I am motivated by this thread, and cannot wait to compete against you and the clock in Panama City. |
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