General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price? Rss Feed  
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2008-09-10 3:09 PM

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Expert
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Subject: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

So a week ago I got fitted at my local bike shop for a new Kuota K Factor. In the time it has taken to make the decision to buy this bike I have found a number of stores online that have it cheaper than my LBS. When you factor in the fact that I wouldn't have to pay tax getting it online it makes getting in online about $400 cheaper.

I really want to support my LBS but $400 is quite a chuck of money. Am I wrong to expect my LBS to match the out of door price from the online retailer and if he is not willing to do that  actually getting the bike online. I obv  know size etc as I was fitted (I am more than willing to pay my LBS the $75 fit fee if they give my my measurements and fit card)

How do I tell my LBS that I will shop elsewhere without them off?



2008-09-10 3:17 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Regular
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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
You feel like your obligated to purchase from the LBS, but remember its your money. I'm one who constantly will go in and window shop so to speak, only to purchase elsewhere because of the fact that I can get it cheaper.

You might as well go into your LBS and talk to the person, they might work with you and if they dont come far enough down, then walk out and purchase online.

When you get it have the LBS fit you to it, what are they going to care. Ok so they couldn't match the price of the bike but your still coming to get fit...which means there still making money.

I would say go in and give it a try, maybe even bring in a printout of the retailers page online in which it list the bike at so they can look at the proof!

Good luck!
2008-09-10 3:23 PM
in reply to: #1665090

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

Never hurts to ask.  Also compaire some other things though.  Some may offer a year's tuneups or include a professional fitting.  That could swing the cost a couple hundred bucks....

2008-09-10 3:23 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

I went through similar issue when buying my K Factor as well.

I found the difference was less though about 10%. I tried to get the LBS to drop the price, but they didn't. I did get 10% off though most bike shops I get 15% so not as good.

LBS did give me a free tune up which was worth some money maybe $75  plus they swapped parts for even money including wheels, saddle and compact crank. On line stores wanted more money for the swap. If I had bought it on line I would have had to pay to have it put together..when I added in all the extras the difference was much closer.

LBS was best choice plus now I always get a discount at the biggest tri store in the area and am treated very well..priceless!

2008-09-10 3:30 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
when i bought my road bike I got life time tune ups .... this is amazing... I now have a tri bike and dont ride the road bike that much...

I wish i was able to get thoes tune ups switched to my tri bike
2008-09-10 3:53 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Master
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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

Just because you don't have to pay tax to your state at the time of the purchase, doesn't mean you don't owe it.  Your state likely has a use tax for exactly that reason.  Online retailers are seeing more pressure from  their states and outside state to provide that sales data so they can collect the lost tax revenue. 

It might not bite you today, or tomorrow, but someday it'll show up.  Most states are starting to get very aggressive with this.

If it were me, I would factor the taxes in, and then ask the retailer to match.  If you go in there and tell them its because you don't have to pay tax, they might deny you on principle.  I probably would.

Just my two cents.  I hope you get a kickin' deal. 



2008-09-10 3:57 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
The worst they can say is no. If you're not an about it you can get some good deals that way. Remember, also, the tune ups, the customer service, and the place that you can walk into and say, "Fix this" is also worth something so add that to your equation.
2008-09-10 3:57 PM
in reply to: #1665249

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
matt3liv - 2008-09-10 3:53 PM

Just because you don't have to pay tax to your state at the time of the purchase, doesn't mean you don't owe it.  Your state likely has a use tax for exactly that reason.  Online retailers are seeing more pressure from  their states and outside state to provide that sales data so they can collect the lost tax revenue. 

It might not bite you today, or tomorrow, but someday it'll show up.  Most states are starting to get very aggressive with this.

If it were me, I would factor the taxes in, and then ask the retailer to match.  If you go in there and tell them its because you don't have to pay tax, they might deny you on principle.  I probably would.

Just my two cents.  I hope you get a kickin' deal. 

I was going to say the same thing, also want to point out that you may not have to pay tax at the time of purchase (doesn't mean you don't owe it), but you very well could have to pay shipping.

To the original question, it never hurts to ask. This past winter I bought a frame on ebay and asked my LBS to price components while I comparison shopped online. I was able to save $600 by purchasing online, and my LBS was willing to do the ibuild for $130, including a fit. An LBS makes money from sales and service and even if they don't get the sale they want you as a customer for the service and the after-market accessories sales.

IMHO, that "free tune-ups for life" thing is over-rated; at most my LBS charges $30 for a complete tuneup including wheel truing, but most of the work I can do myself for free.



Edited by the bear 2008-09-10 4:06 PM
2008-09-10 4:05 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

Remember to factor in all of the cost, such as delivery and assembly ... probably $50.00-75.00 and $100.00 each respectively ... and then add in the fit ($75.00 for a quality fit is on the low end). 

In the end, you are talking about a delta of $150-$175, which is a workable number on their part.  An alternative to taking that directly off the price of the bike is to give you a discount/off-set the cost of the ancillary cost associated with a new bike: pedals, cleats, shoes, cyclocomputer, white wicker basket, etc.

From what I have been told, LBS' do not make that much money off of bikes but instead services and accoutrements ... so there is not a lot of leeway to play with.

That said, when something goes wrong with your bike or you need a last minute adjustment or something prior to a race, the on-line retailer will not be there for you ... hopefully your LBS will be

2008-09-10 4:15 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
I haven't had this experience in the bike world yet, but I've had similar ones before.  I just tell the salesman the situation...  for example, I'll tell him I can get it for $whatever elsewhere, but I'd really rather support his shop for whatever reasons.  Then I just ask him if there's anything he can do about the price.  Some salespeople have matched lower prices for me, and some have come close enough that I was willing to pay the extra for their customer service.  I can't remember ever having anyone tell me there was nothing they could do and to go buy it at the other place. Make sure you consider the value of supporting your LBS.  If everyone goes on line for the cheapest prices, you'll have no place to look at and test ride bikes any more.
2008-09-10 4:20 PM
in reply to: #1665064

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by betsy 2008-09-10 4:21 PM


2008-09-10 4:21 PM
in reply to: #1665360

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

AccidentalChef - 2008-09-10 4:15 PM  If everyone goes on line for the cheapest prices, you'll have no place to look at and test ride bikes any more.

Only if they close transition areas as well.

Cool

2008-09-10 4:48 PM
in reply to: #1665064


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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

You are wrong to take the sales tax into your savings equation.  If you buy online and don't pay a sales tax you are *supposed* to pay this yourself to your state.  (OK, no one ever does)  Many states are now including a line on their income tax returns for taxpayers to remit this tax.  (once again, most people don't do that)

I am not trying to bore you with a lot of tax facts, but that is something the LBS has no control over.  Once you take taxes out of your savings, you will probably see that the potential savings are worth the investment in supporting your local business.

It never hurts to ask the store and show them the prices you found online.  Maybe they can throw in some free stuff to make you feel better about paying the extra $$.

2008-09-10 5:05 PM
in reply to: #1665376

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
betsy - 2008-09-10 5:20 PM

Having worked reatil for many many years I can tell you that if everyone continues to buy online we will be complaining in a few years that we have no where to go to look, touch and test the bike.....or insert any other product you like before we buy it.  I do understand $400 is a large amount of money but remember the cost of shipping the bike will not be cheap and then you will need it tweeked and the LBS my not be thrilled to see a bike that they took the time to fit you with purchesed from an online dealer that had no time invested in you.


Let me start by stating that I buy both on-line and through an LBS or 3.

In a previous life, I was an board of director member for a mountain bike advocacy group. We published a magazine for our membership and needed to get / write copy. One of the stories I did was to interview the owner of a sponsor shop of ours. Bigger shop; 100best retailer, etc.

He explained that once all that, if internet buying conquers brick and mortar, all that wil remain for them is low margin business. Things that have "justified" buying on-line like tue-ups for fee, crankset swaps, fitting. They DO generate profit, but not enough to keep the doors open and staff on the floor. He pays benefits, paid vacations, sick time, etc. Things many of us take for granted.

I know it's your $400 and yes, I'm not saying your LBS is a charity and you blindly give it to them. But as Betsy stated above, once we go down that path too far, the LBS becomes extinct and you'd better be proficient at setting headsets, cutting carbon fiber steer tubes and the like.

I'd ask what they can do. When I bought my last road bike, I told them that I could get it for $500 less on-line (they wanted $1900 and I bought at $1400) . I was told they couldn't budge, so I bought on-line guilt free. I'm back at that same shop again and the above one b/c no on-line retailer matches a "completely custom fit, built for me, Titanium frame" like I'm getting from one of those 2 shops.
2008-09-10 5:36 PM
in reply to: #1665249

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
matt3liv - 2008-09-10 1:53 PM

Just because you don't have to pay tax to your state at the time of the purchase, doesn't mean you don't owe it. Your state likely has a use tax for exactly that reason. Online retailers are seeing more pressure from their states and outside state to provide that sales data so they can collect the lost tax revenue.

It might not bite you today, or tomorrow, but someday it'll show up. Most states are starting to get very aggressive with this.



x2

As a small businessman myself, I come across the "I don't have to pay sales tax online" mentality all the time. I understand the desire to save money, but please remember that your LBS doesn't charge tax, they collect it for the state.

2008-09-10 5:51 PM
in reply to: #1665064

Expert
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Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

believe me I  know the LBS is not responsible for the sales tax and get nothing from it. I also know that I am meant to pay it, but like someone said, who does? No I don't want to get into a if Johnny says jump in the fire do you jump in a fire conversation. Bottom line is that tax makes about a $150 difference.

Let me ask this then. Is it reasonable for me to expect the LBS to match the base price as in I can get X biek for $2190 online can you give me X bike for $2190 plus tax? 

 

 



2008-09-10 6:17 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
About "sales tax": It is not true that you are "supposed" to pay this tax for out of state purchases to your home state in all cases. Depends on the state. In New Mexico the "sales tax" is actually a gross receipts tax that the seller is responsible for, not the buyer. It is always passed on by the retailer to the buyer as a "sales tax", but it isn't that. In New Mexico, your out of state purchase is not taxable. The other obvious exceptions are states where there is no sales tax. Not sure where you are from, but I would certainly consider the relative costs of paying tax vs. not.

To answer the original question, recently I found a great deal online for a last year model bike. I called the manager of the local bike shop and told him I found a deal I could not pass up, but that I wanted to give him a chance to see what he could do. I told him the price I was quoted online. He came within a $100 on the base price, through in a bike fit, and I figure shipping vs tax is a close trade-off. It is worth it to me to pay an extra 5% to help support local commerce (not just for bikes.)



2008-09-10 6:30 PM
in reply to: #1665064

Champion
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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

Support your local bike store.  Sure, ask them if they can match the price or come down a little but you are gonna get your bike serviced and maintained at the LBS not the internet.

I bought a pair of bike shoes from Nashbar to save a few bucks....when I got them in the mail, it took me about 30 seconds to conclude I didn't like them....I sent them back.  Next day I went to my LBS and bought some shoes that I could touch and feel frist.

Wal-mart put most of our local mom and pop shops out of business and the internet is gonna put our LBS's ouf of business if we don't make an effort to support them - even if it means we occasionally pay a little extra.

.~Mike

2008-09-10 6:35 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
I don't really know what to tell you about sales tax or some of those other things, but I know that when I bought my bike I probably could have knocked another 10% off from another vendor. I also knew I wasn't likely to get the same long-term service from the other vendor so I went ahead and paid the price at the LBS and have never been sorry.

The people at the store recognize me, they treat me very well when I come in, do great work on my bike, act interested in me as a person beyond the sale they are hoping to make, and generally make me feel like I'm a preferred customer. I'll pay a little extra up front to get that kind of treatment in the long run any time.
2008-09-10 7:03 PM
in reply to: #1665064

Expert
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Muncie, IN
Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm looking at a new bike and the local shop I'm looking at has it for $2500 which includes a fit. I can order the same bike right now online for almost $700 less and pay no sales tax. I'm just struggling with this. I'm really a 'touch' before I buy but $700 is a lot! I'm almost afraid to ask the LBS...I don't want to offend but that's a lot of money.
2008-09-10 10:21 PM
in reply to: #1665064

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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
$400 is alot of money unless its the wrong bike for you. Alot of places will fit you for free so the cost is really $270 more minus if you pay them $75 to assemble it. shipping a bike is not cheap either so there might be another $45. bring you around $150.

This from a guy who looked at 4 stores for a tri bike and ended up getting my javalin for cheap.

Edited by chirunner134 2008-09-10 10:21 PM


2008-09-10 10:31 PM
in reply to: #1665064

Pro
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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
Sounds like you should bargain with the LBS as you said 'match base price of $2,190 then you can add tax' and see what they say. If you don't pay the sales tax then it's that many more potholes that don't get filled while you're out riding around
2008-09-11 8:04 AM
in reply to: #1665064


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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
I recently had an experience where I was glad I had made a purchase through my LBS. My stand pump kept leaking air whenever I would try to lock it on the valve stem. I took it into my LBS and they did something to it and said to bring it back again if it continued to give me trouble. I brought it back a week later and the guy handed me a brand new pump (same price, different brand) and that was it. It's the intangibles that make buying from the LBS worth the extra money.

p.s. I would have saved $10 on the pump had i bought it online.
2008-09-11 8:32 AM
in reply to: #1665064

Elite
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Whispering Pines, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?

I have been shopping for a road/tri bike now for a little while now. i have been reading specs, reviews, looking at pics, etc etc...this being my first road bike, i was very overwhelmed.

then, i went to my LBS. talked to the owner for a long time. i came away feeling better in an hour than all that time i had spent doing my own research.

when the time comes to buy my bike, i'm going LBS. sure, i'll pay a little more, but i'm willing to go there b/c  i like having that expertise locally...well, that, and cool biking stories that he was able to share with me...

good luck

 

2008-09-11 8:45 AM
in reply to: #1665064

Expert
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Subject: RE: Am I right or wrong asking LBS to match price?
I used to work in a LBS, and I'm a granola-crunchy earth mama type, so I am a bit biased in favor of buying locally.

Just for background, you could always ask the LBS to price match. However, on bikes, LBS's have incredibly low margins. They are not doubling the price. Depending on their sales volume and agreements with manufacturers, they often only make 15-20% (or at least mine was like that, smaller shop, back in the 80s). They have the added expense of assembly, etc. and then the sale to you, and shop space. Bikes are not a huge profit for bike shops.

Where they do have some wiggle room is on parts and service. So maybe you agree to buy the bike from the LBS for their price, and then ask them to throw in some parts, or free service or such. That's a lot more doable for them. Or pay full price for the frame and ask them to custom build it out with some discount on the parts.

The other costs savings you could ask them to share is paying cash (if you can) - ask them to knock off the cc processing percentage (often 4-6%).

Believe me, having a good relationship with the LBS will pay off many times over in your cycling life. They will be there to donate stuff for your charity rides/races, they will let you come in and pick their brains for hours, they will let you know when something new is coming on the market you might like, they will let you try out samples of stuff they get at trade shows or from salesmen, they will give you a good estimate for insurance when your bike is damaged in a crash, etc. At least, a good shop will, and I have always been able to find that shop in any town I have lived in.
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