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weight trainign while in race season
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 2009-07-15 10:59 AM |
 70 |  Subject: weight trainign while in race seasonI had a discussion with a much more advanced triathlete than myself last night about lifting weights or doing ANY type of strength training during race season. It was his view that during the season there should be nothing being done except for the swim, bike, and run. He said if you want to get tired and get more muscle than swim more. I think this is totally wrong. Any professional sporting team be it football, baseball, track, etc...does not stop doing strength and flexibilty training just because the season has started. To relate it more to triathlon, many marathon training logs recommend short strength training workouts as well. My routine prior to the pool last night was a cirquit of pull ups, push ups, and squates that are timed every minute on the minute. I find that hard to believe that doing this type of aerobic workout would hurt me in any triathlon training. Any thoughts on this? |
| 2009-07-15 11:03 AM in reply to: #2286868 |
Pro 3906     Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season jeff525w - 2009-07-15 10:59 AM I had a discussion with a much more advanced triathlete than myself last night about lifting weights or doing ANY type of strength training during race season. It was his view that during the season there should be nothing being done except for the swim, bike, and run. He said if you want to get tired and get more muscle than swim more. I think this is totally wrong. Any professional sporting team be it football, baseball, track, etc...does not stop doing strength and flexibilty training just because the season has started. To relate it more to triathlon, many marathon training logs recommend short strength training workouts as well. My routine prior to the pool last night was a cirquit of pull ups, push ups, and squates that are timed every minute on the minute. I find that hard to believe that doing this type of aerobic workout would hurt me in any triathlon training. Any thoughts on this? Check out the strength training discussion area. FWIW, getting in long course training hours while having a job and a fam, it gets cut out. I wont get into the does it help or not cuz that gets beaten to death around here over and over again. If you do a forum search you will see a ton of discussions on it. |
| 2009-07-15 11:15 AM in reply to: #2286868 |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season I think it depends on how much volume of swim/bike/run you want to achieve. When I trained for a HIM, the last several weeks required me to devote 12+ hours a week solely to s/b/r. As much as I wanted to weight train, I knew that would cut into my s/b/r time and probably leave me unprepared for a HIM distance. |
| 2009-07-15 11:21 AM in reply to: #2286868 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season my training right now is for oly & HIM, 12+ hrs per week. weight training is gone, no time or energy. all focus is on s/b/r, after my HIM i will hit the gym for about 8 weeks to get my muscles back into shape. |
| 2009-07-15 11:32 AM in reply to: #2286868 |
Extreme Veteran 547 Canyon Hills (Lake Elsinore), CA | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season I've lifted weights for 10+ years and been doing tri's for 3. Up until this year the races I did were sprints and I could lift along with my tri workouts. I'm training for my first Oly and ramping up to 10-12 hours a week of training for the S/B/R with my sites on a half in 2010. From a position of vanity alone, I have been lifting weights 1 day a week. I have lost some weight which I believe is muscle weight but I haven't lost near the strength that I thought I would under this program. Just some food for thought. |
| 2009-07-15 11:34 AM in reply to: #2286868 |
| 70 | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season And dont get me wrong...I am not saying that even a quarter of my time should be put into weight training during the season, but for someone to say that putting in 2 20 minute general fitness routines is wrong does not strike me as being accurate. If i still have the time and energy put in an hour swim after than I dont see the downside. |
| 2009-07-15 2:55 PM in reply to: #2286868 |
The Original 7834 Raleigh/Durham | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season I've tri trained with no weight training previously and now I've currently incorporated weight training into my tri training. I can tell you that for me personally, weight training has really helped me get stronger without spending not so much time training- if that makes sense. I'm not saying I'm taking the easy way out, because my workouts are in no way easy. But...instead of logging really long hours every week, I'm probably doing less than others with added strength training. And I'm actually the fastest I've been with swimming, biking and running. I think strength is really important for endurance training and it's often overlooked. Looking at some pros, Michael Phelps started weight training to get faster in the pool- and after seeing his performance in Beijing I'd have to saty that it didn't appear to hurt him in any way. Today I was able to do 50 man pushups- I never would have been able to do that with no strength training. For me personally I like strength training and will continue with it. Others may feel differently but so far I've seen nothing but positive results with it and my tri training. |
| 2009-07-15 3:03 PM in reply to: #2287011 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season jeff525w - 2009-07-15 12:34 PM And dont get me wrong...I am not saying that even a quarter of my time should be put into weight training during the season, but for someone to say that putting in 2 20 minute general fitness routines is wrong does not strike me as being accurate. If i still have the time and energy put in an hour swim after than I dont see the downside. The 'downside' (if you want to call it that) is that you could have gone for 2 x 20min runs instead or swam for 1:20. Or spent that time resting/recovering so your swim workout is higher quality. The strength you get in the weightroom does not translate readily to the swim/bike/run. But if you enjoy doing it and it fits into your schedule and overall goals, then there's little reason to stop either. |
| 2009-07-15 3:07 PM in reply to: #2286868 |
Pro 4353 Wallingford, PA | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season oooohhh.... a weight training thread! Let me get some popcorn! |
| 2009-07-15 3:11 PM in reply to: #2287629 |
Regular 186 SW VA | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season x2 on the "this has been beaten to death" I lift weights, but not the traditional bench, curl 3 sets of 10 sorta thing. I do 2 to 3 sessions no more than 40 minutes of body weight, explosive, muscle endurance exercises. For example today, during my lunch I hit the gym for 30 minutes. I do 3 sets or body circuit exercises - pull up, kip ups, plank, push up, balance ball core drills, front to back core (lower chain and oblique focus), lunges, pistols, box jumps... i hit it very hard with no rest Again there are tons of opinions on this and the truth is in some regard it all works. My goals are weight loss, overall fitness, and increasing my personal performance. I race sprints, oly's and HIM. I do it because I like it, I am in the top 25% of the pack and compete with me. So I think it all depends on what you want from it. So there is my ten cents worth  good luck! |
| 2009-07-15 3:12 PM in reply to: #2287629 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM I've tri trained with no weight training previously and now I've currently incorporated weight training into my tri training. I can tell you that for me personally, weight training has really helped me get stronger without spending not so much time training- if that makes sense or maybe the fitness you have achieved over years of training is helping outrunnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PMI'm not saying I'm taking the easy way out, because my workouts are in no way easy. But...instead of logging really long hours every week, I'm probably doing less than others with added strength training. And I'm actually the fastest I've been with swimming, biking and running. In addition to the years you have trained now you are now balancing your load (volume + intensity) hence even when you do less training your training load in fact is probably higher hence your performance improvement; weight lifting most likely has little or nothing to do with it besides the placebo effect.runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM I think strength is really important for endurance training and it's often overlooked. ST can be achieved sport specific by doing hill repeats, drills, swimming all four strokes etc. hence you can get better ROI by doing so rather than weight lifting which won't have an impact on your performance.runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM Looking at some pros, Michael Phelps started weight training to get faster in the pool- and after seeing his performance in Beijing I'd have to saty that it didn't appear to hurt him in any way. The specific sport requirements and training adaptations that Phelps needs vs what triathletes need are very different. In the case of Phelps it makes sense to add weight lifting as his events rely almost entirely on the anaerobic system while for triathletes we mostly rely on our aerobic sytem (even those doing sprints). Furthermore even those Pros in our sport who incorporate ST on their training are seeking to extract that extra 1 second advantage that might be the difference between a win and not and they have topped the amoung of training load they can handle, hence to get more training they require an extra stimulus. For regular AGers interested in improving performance, s/b/r will yield the greated ROI given their undertrained status...runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM Today I was able to do 50 man pushups- I never would have been able to do that with no strength training. For me personally I like strength training and will continue with it. Others may feel differently but so far I've seen nothing but positive results with it and my tri training. and that alone is the best reason for you to do so. |
| 2009-07-15 3:16 PM in reply to: #2287646 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season JohnnyKay - 2009-07-15 4:03 PM But if you enjoy doing it and it fits into your schedule and overall goals, then there's little reason to stop either. Well put. It works for some people, others avoid it like the plague. It's really up to the individual. |
| 2009-07-15 3:22 PM in reply to: #2287675 |
Expert 1123 Falls Church, VA | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season JorgeM - 2009-07-15 4:12 PM runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM I've tri trained with no weight training previously and now I've currently incorporated weight training into my tri training. I can tell you that for me personally, weight training has really helped me get stronger without spending not so much time training- if that makes sense or maybe the fitness you have achieved over years of training is helping outrunnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PMI'm not saying I'm taking the easy way out, because my workouts are in no way easy. But...instead of logging really long hours every week, I'm probably doing less than others with added strength training. And I'm actually the fastest I've been with swimming, biking and running. In addition to the years you have trained now you are now balancing your load (volume + intensity) hence even when you do less training your training load in fact is probably higher hence your performance improvement; weight lifting most likely has little or nothing to do with it besides the placebo effect.runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM I think strength is really important for endurance training and it's often overlooked. ST can be achieved sport specific by doing hill repeats, drills, swimming all four strokes etc. hence you can get better ROI by doing so rather than weight lifting which won't have an impact on your performance.runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM Looking at some pros, Michael Phelps started weight training to get faster in the pool- and after seeing his performance in Beijing I'd have to saty that it didn't appear to hurt him in any way. The specific sport requirements and training adaptations that Phelps needs vs what triathletes need are very different. In the case of Phelps it makes sense to add weight lifting as his events rely almost entirely on the anaerobic system while for triathletes we mostly rely on our aerobic sytem (even those doing sprints). Furthermore even those Pros in our sport who incorporate ST on their training are seeking to extract that extra 1 second advantage that might be the difference between a win and not and they have topped the amoung of training load they can handle, hence to get more training they require an extra stimulus. For regular AGers interested in improving performance, s/b/r will yield the greated ROI given their undertrained status...runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM Today I was able to do 50 man pushups- I never would have been able to do that with no strength training. For me personally I like strength training and will continue with it. Others may feel differently but so far I've seen nothing but positive results with it and my tri training. and that alone is the best reason for you to do so.hey.. won't weight training give you a better gun for that avatar though? |
| 2009-07-15 3:26 PM in reply to: #2287669 |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season mrmcmasty - 2009-07-15 3:11 PM x2 on the "this has been beaten to death" I lift weights, but not the traditional bench, curl 3 sets of 10 sorta thing. I do 2 to 3 sessions no more than 40 minutes of body weight, explosive, muscle endurance exercises. For example today, during my lunch I hit the gym for 30 minutes. I do 3 sets or body circuit exercises - pull up, kip ups, plank, push up, balance ball core drills, front to back core (lower chain and oblique focus), lunges, pistols, box jumps... i hit it very hard with no rest Again there are tons of opinions on this and the truth is in some regard it all works. My goals are weight loss, overall fitness, and increasing my personal performance. I race sprints, oly's and HIM. I do it because I like it, I am in the top 25% of the pack and compete with me. So I think it all depends on what you want from it. So there is my ten cents worth good luck! This type of training is very similar to how I teach my Total Conditioning class. One huge thing I've gained from devoting at least one session per week to this form of training is the ability to cardiovascularly recover VERY quickly. I can feel this coming in handy during races, especially in transition and coming out of hill climbs. On the flip side, as Johnny mentioned, this time could instead be devoted to some type of swim/bike/run speed play or interval training that might deliver the same cardio recovery benefits while also improving your swim/bike/run. |
| 2009-07-15 3:32 PM in reply to: #2287675 |
The Original 7834 Raleigh/Durham | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season JorgeM - 2009-07-15 4:12 PM Yep- a little muscle never looks bad runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM I've tri trained with no weight training previously and now I've currently incorporated weight training into my tri training. I can tell you that for me personally, weight training has really helped me get stronger without spending not so much time training- if that makes sense or maybe the fitness you have achieved over years of training is helping out Not sure- I took 2 years off from swimming and cycling and started back tri training in April. Maybe the fitness carried over, maybe not?? runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PMI'm not saying I'm taking the easy way out, because my workouts are in no way easy. But...instead of logging really long hours every week, I'm probably doing less than others with added strength training. And I'm actually the fastest I've been with swimming, biking and running. In addition to the years you have trained now you are now balancing your load (volume + intensity) hence even when you do less training your training load in fact is probably higher hence your performance improvement; weight lifting most likely has little or nothing to do with it besides the placebo effect. Yes- but, right now I'm only running like 10 miles a week max- if that. I'm not doing any track workouts right now. And I just PR'ed the 10K distance last Sat. by about 3 mins- in the heat and humidity, which running in the heat has always been an issue for me. So I'm not sure how to explain that. runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM I think strength is really important for endurance training and it's often overlooked. ST can be achieved sport specific by doing hill repeats, drills, swimming all four strokes etc. hence you can get better ROI by doing so rather than weight lifting which won't have an impact on your performance.runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM Looking at some pros, Michael Phelps started weight training to get faster in the pool- and after seeing his performance in Beijing I'd have to saty that it didn't appear to hurt him in any way. The specific sport requirements and training adaptations that Phelps needs vs what triathletes need are very different. In the case of Phelps it makes sense to add weight lifting as his events rely almost entirely on the anaerobic system while for triathletes we mostly rely on our aerobic sytem (even those doing sprints). Furthermore even those Pros in our sport who incorporate ST on their training are seeking to extract that extra 1 second advantage that might be the difference between a win and not and they have topped the amoung of training load they can handle, hence to get more training they require an extra stimulus. For regular AGers interested in improving performance, s/b/r will yield the greated ROI given their undertrained status...runnergirl - 2009-07-15 2:55 PM Today I was able to do 50 man pushups- I never would have been able to do that with no strength training. For me personally I like strength training and will continue with it. Others may feel differently but so far I've seen nothing but positive results with it and my tri training. and that alone is the best reason for you to do so. Better to be solid than squishy Edited by runnergirl 2009-07-15 3:34 PM |
| 2009-07-15 3:37 PM in reply to: #2287733 |
The Original 7834 Raleigh/Durham | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season I forgot to mention that I have Newtons. So maybe it's the Newtons and not the strength training? Lemme get another bag of popcorn. Edited by runnergirl 2009-07-15 3:39 PM |
| 2009-07-15 3:38 PM in reply to: #2287733 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season runnergirl - 2009-07-15 3:32 PM Yes- but, right now I'm only running like 10 miles a week max- if that. I'm not doing any track workouts right now. And I just PR'ed the 10K distance last Sat. by about 3 mins- in the heat and humidity, which running in the heat has always been an issue for me. So I'm not sure how to explain that. Could be a dozen things, including error in measuring distance. Was this a certified 10K course? Running 10mpw now, maybe, but 1500 miles last year and nearly 500 YTD. In the scheme of things, just because "B" following "A" doesn't mean that "A" caused "B" to happen. |
| 2009-07-15 3:45 PM in reply to: #2286868 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season |
| 2009-07-15 4:49 PM in reply to: #2287703 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season Bioteknik - 2009-07-15 3:22 PM that would be if I care about better guns, I prefer to race as fast as possible hey.. won't weight training give you a better gun for that avatar though?  still it seems you missed the sarcasm of the picture, it cracks me up everytime I look at it! |
| 2009-07-15 5:23 PM in reply to: #2286868 |
Extreme Veteran 318 North Carolina | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season There are a million different theories as to what works and what doesn't. Just because someone may think that strength training isn't a good idea doesn't mean that it is wrong. Studies are studies and we all know that you have to take into consideration who is doing the study and what their agenda is. I personally have seen many positives as a result of my strength training. I know of other BT's who have seen similar results. I guess my point is that no one person is the same and all people react differently to various types of training. You can never expect one "blanket" training plan to work for everyone. So it is important that one finds the plan that will suit him/her best and not just do a particular plan just because everyone else tells them to do so. Have fun...that is why we should be doing this to begin with!...........I guess what I'm really trying to say is, who cares? If someone is happy with the results they are getting from their plan, then why should I tell them it doesn't work and not to do it? |
| 2009-07-15 7:59 PM in reply to: #2286868 |
| 70 | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season Exactly! That was what had sparked this thread for me in the first place. It had irritated me for a total stranger to criticize my training methods, who has never seen me train, just because they are different than his. Everyone had good posts so thanks for the insight and I mainly come from a background of sports that always included ST and I like to do it. I dont see how a couple sets of pulls and push ups will make me a worse triathlete. Oh well either way I have had a blast this past year training for these races and I am planning to improve as time goes on. As long as it is fun than than I will find a way to do well at it. |
| 2009-07-15 10:09 PM in reply to: #2287923 |
Expert 1123 Falls Church, VA | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season JorgeM - 2009-07-15 5:49 PM Bioteknik - 2009-07-15 3:22 PM that would be if I care about better guns, I prefer to race as fast as possible hey.. won't weight training give you a better gun for that avatar though? still it seems you missed the sarcasm of the picture, it cracks me up everytime I look at it!and you missed the tongue in cheek comment due to your obvioius bias against weight training,  |
| 2009-07-16 7:04 AM in reply to: #2288222 |
Extreme Veteran 318 North Carolina | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season jeff525w - 2009-07-15 8:59 PM Exactly! That was what had sparked this thread for me in the first place. It had irritated me for a total stranger to criticize my training methods, who has never seen me train, just because they are different than his. Everyone had good posts so thanks for the insight and I mainly come from a background of sports that always included ST and I like to do it. I dont see how a couple sets of pulls and push ups will make me a worse triathlete. Oh well either way I have had a blast this past year training for these races and I am planning to improve as time goes on. As long as it is fun than than I will find a way to do well at it.
Totally agree man. I think some people hear "lifting weights" and picuture a bunch of "meat heads" trying to bench press 450lbs and squat 700lbs. I don't think they realize that there is specific strength training that helps to build muscle endurance. I still say if it is working for you and you are getting the results you want, screw what other people say.
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| 2009-07-16 7:10 AM in reply to: #2286868 |
Champion 6046 New York, NY | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season I am a believer in strength training. What I do during season is substantially different than off season, both by frequency and type of work. Now there is much more core, plyometrics....but still some squats, pull ups etc. Certainly it is a challenge to fit it in - this is my second season and I am doing Half Ironman training which is much more volume than last season - but I am mostly managing - having said that, if something needs to drop out, strength is the first thing to go. NSCA has so much data in support of strength training that I do not feel a need to get into the debate on rehab/prehab - it is working for me. |
| 2009-07-16 7:11 AM in reply to: #2287977 |
Veteran 427 | Subject: RE: weight trainign while in race season run_your_run - 2009-07-15 5:23 PM I guess what I'm really trying to say is, who cares? If someone is happy with the results they are getting from their plan, then why should I tell them it doesn't work and not to do it? +1.....QFT. |
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