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2009-03-11 3:57 PM

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Subject: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

Seriously, why are we paid so poorly?  Our country (both parties) rants and raves about education reform, yet there is no federal mandate to pay teachers a salary that cannot be bested by a full time waiter.

And then we scratch our collective heads in wonderment when we realize that the USA barely edged out the country of Cypress in academic performance and ranks dead last in the industrialized world.  Does the phrase "you get what you pay for" come to mind?

I'll never understand the fact that when virtually everyone who is asked will agree that education is or should be a top 5 priority in this country.  Everyone has agreed to this ideal for decades.  Yet year after year teachers are bringing up the rear in compensations.

My state of Florida is 50th in the nation for spending on education.  A county near Orlando recently laid off 500 teachers in preparation for next year's expected budget cuts.  One of the teachers laid off was a finalist for "teacher of the year" but since she had only been with the district for 2 years, she got the axe (because education lives with the illusion that time served is directly related to quality of teacher).

It's really bad.....



2009-03-11 4:03 PM
in reply to: #2011802

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Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
Big Sexy - 2009-03-11 4:57 PM

Seriously, why are we paid so poorly? Our country (both parties) rants and raves about education reform, yet there is no federal mandate to pay teachers a salary that cannot be bested by a full time waiter.

And then we scratch our collective heads in wonderment when we realize that the USA barely edged out the country of Cypress in academic performance and ranks dead last in the industrialized world. Does the phrase "you get what you pay for" come to mind?

I'll never understand the fact that when virtually everyone who is asked will agree that education is or should be a top 5 priority in this country. Everyone has agreed to this ideal for decades. Yet year after year teachers are bringing up the rear in compensations.

My state of Florida is 50th in the nation for spending on education. A county near Orlando recently laid off 500 teachers in preparation for next year's expected budget cuts. One of the teachers laid off was a finalist for "teacher of the year" but since she had only been with the district for 2 years, she got the axe (because education lives with the illusion that time served is directly related to quality of teacher).

It's really bad.....

 

I would expect a teacher to know that it's "Cyprus".

2009-03-11 4:05 PM
in reply to: #2011802

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Elite
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Oliver, BC, "Wine Capital of Canada"
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
What is the average wage in the US for teachers?
2009-03-11 4:06 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2009-03-11 4:07 PM
in reply to: #2011816

Davenport, IA
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
WelshinPhilly - 2009-03-11 4:03 PM
Big Sexy - 2009-03-11 4:57 PM

Seriously, why are we paid so poorly? Our country (both parties) rants and raves about education reform, yet there is no federal mandate to pay teachers a salary that cannot be bested by a full time waiter.

And then we scratch our collective heads in wonderment when we realize that the USA barely edged out the country of Cypress in academic performance and ranks dead last in the industrialized world. Does the phrase "you get what you pay for" come to mind?

I'll never understand the fact that when virtually everyone who is asked will agree that education is or should be a top 5 priority in this country. Everyone has agreed to this ideal for decades. Yet year after year teachers are bringing up the rear in compensations.

My state of Florida is 50th in the nation for spending on education. A county near Orlando recently laid off 500 teachers in preparation for next year's expected budget cuts. One of the teachers laid off was a finalist for "teacher of the year" but since she had only been with the district for 2 years, she got the axe (because education lives with the illusion that time served is directly related to quality of teacher).

It's really bad.....

 

I would expect a teacher to know that it's "Cyprus".

No, he meant Cypress Hill.  Our system is Insane in the Brain.

2009-03-11 4:11 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Extreme Veteran
468
1001001001002525
Webster, Ma
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

Because you get so much time off!! Just kidding! I would gladly trade my job and salary to make less (not that I make a ton anyway) to not work summers, no weekends, and short hours during the week.

 I know a few teachers up my way who make quite a bit of money, I just don't think I could deal with the kids now a days.



2009-03-11 4:11 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Champion
4942
2000200050010010010010025
Richmond, VA
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

I haven't really looked into this issue, but I'm curious if this has anything to with the "No Child Left Behind" initiative as well Spelling's management of the Dept. of Education.

From my perspective, I see the issue of our country lacking in education as by-product of poor parenting - sit down and teach your child once in a while - take an interest in their education.

As for teacher salary, I don't have an answer except to say that I'm not sure there is necessarily a connection between increasing funding for teacher's salary and children learning.

2009-03-11 4:11 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Veteran
385
100100100252525
Chaska, MN
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

I love this question....I don't know how old the OP is...but when I was a kid, now 35, teachers complained they didn't get paid enough...now they complain they don't get paid enough...you had to have known before you chose this career that there would be relatively low pay...didn't you?

I feel bad that there is not enough money to keep quality teachers and there are cuts being made but there are cuts being made everywhere...if she was that good she'll find new work....

Believe me "I don't hate America" or teachers....you all do a wonderful job and do deserve to be paid well but there are 3 reasons you don't get paid more....

June, July, & August....Plus spring break....holidays....weekends....lol

If I only worked 2/3 of the year I'd get paid less...Most teachers in MN make between $30-$40k excluding coaching or extra activities....As you progress you obviously earn more...that's not terrible in my book....

Again I'd like to stress that I'm not teacher hating.....I'm just saying....

 



Edited by KCD1974 2009-03-11 4:13 PM
2009-03-11 4:12 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Master
2808
2000500100100100
, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
Wow, this is a big one. Std disclaimer. I'm no teacher, nor have I ever had kids in the system.

Using your analogy - when will we start paying teachers like waiters? Great waiters that produce great results get paid more. Teachers unions aren't exactly scrambling for pay for performance - plus it's so darn hard to measure success.

I'm certainly not an education guru, but I'm sure there are loads of stats out there with respect to paying more for something doesn't necessarily equate to a better product - just like paying more for a vehicle or toaster.

When you prorate a teacher salary for having three months off a year, how does it stack up? Most teachers I know don't do it for the pay.

Teacher layoffs are a whole 'nother story and depend on lots of stuff including enrollment, levies, etc. Staff is the bulkd of the education cost so if budgets get cut, teachers will be the first to go.

Big subject. No easy answer.
2009-03-11 4:21 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Expert
1207
1000100100
Parker, Co
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
2009-03-11 4:21 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.


2009-03-11 4:29 PM
in reply to: #2011861

Master
2808
2000500100100100
, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
Don't confuse us with facts.

Bcozican - 2009-03-11 4:21 PM

4th best in this table....

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs/eiip/eiipid40.asp

2009-03-11 4:33 PM
in reply to: #2011880

Expert
1207
1000100100
Parker, Co
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

your right....they get in the way of a good debate! ;-)

 

2009-03-11 4:45 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

I'll take it a step further.  Why are good, hard workers paid so poorly in the USA?

Teachers do get great bennies, like I do working, or as others put it, "being employed", by the State where I'm at.  So, there's that compromise.

2009-03-11 4:47 PM
in reply to: #2011802

SC
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
I tease my wife about the 3 months off a year thing but then again she's a spec. ed teacher and believe me when I say she has def. earned that time off and in a way it's a necesity. If she didn't have summers and holidays off I really think that she would have gone crazy by now and taken me with her.

I agree that teachers know what they're getting into and should expect the pay to be low and my wife has never complained about pay (even after the $12K/yr cut she took by moving from Texas to SC) but her's is a rewarding career that many of us will never know or understand and I feel bad for teachers that don't feel that way.

With that being said, they do deserve more than what most of them get paid. But it does have to do largely with in what area of the country/state they are working.
2009-03-11 4:56 PM
in reply to: #2011819

Champion
6056
500010002525
Menomonee Falls, WI
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
wgraves7582 - 2009-03-11 4:06 PM

Move to NY - we have teachers $50-70K regularly - to me that is good money.

Not that they do not deserve it because you guys earn every penny by having to deal with children like mine all day long





Pay is similar around here. Plus many teachers earn extra money as coaches or organizers of other activities. I think that's pretty decent pay.

But where I think teachers are extremely well compensated, at least in Wisconsin, are in their benefits. They currently pay NOTHING for a health and benefits program that is the envy of anyone in the private sector. That's like getting an additional $10K in compensation.

Add in the job security and time off that goes far beyond what people in the private sector enjoy, and I think teachers do very well for themselves.

I believe teachers have a challenging job-- one I would wouldn't want-- but IMO, they do pretty darn well around here.



2009-03-11 5:05 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Expert
1092
1000252525
Earth
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

I think the base of your argument is wrong.

First the argument is that teachers are paid poorly.  Poorly as compared to what?

The most recent report included a list of teacher salaries by state. The state with the highest average teacher salary was Connecticut, at $57,760. California was a very close second, where the average teacher salary is $57,604. New Jersey teachers make approximately $56,635 per year. Rounding out the top five were Illinois and Rhode Island, with the average teacher salary at $56,494 and $56,432, respectively. The state with the lowest average teacher salary was South Dakota, at $34,039.

http://www.employmentspot.com/employment-articles/teacher-salaries-by-state/

So the average teacher pay was 34K.  That means the lowest got 24K and the highest made 44K.  Maybe 24K is low, but it is on par with entry level positions in business and other fields. 

Most teachers work from 8:00-3:30, with a working lunch.  Yes they have to grade papers, do other duties as needed.  So depending on how much they assign they will sometimes manage to work a 8 hour day.  But then they get 2 weeks off in Dec, 1 week in Mar-Apr or May.  Many teachers also have from Jun 1 until Aug 20 off.  So they have to work effectively 9 months a year.  Last time I checked 24/9 x 12 = 32K annual pay.  That is pretty nice money if you look at the 9 months bit.  That means the 34K is equal to 45K in normal wages.

Oh and for those teachers that complain they work more than 8 hour days....so do most entry and management positions.  Most management jobs require 9+ hour days.  I know my boss expects 50-55 hours a week.

2009-03-11 5:18 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Champion
34263
500050005000500050005000200020001001002525
Chicago
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
Try dealing with 20 to 30 eight-year olds for eight hours a day for nine months a year.

Most people constantly bi*** and complain about their children, yet only actually deal with them for about four to five hours a day after school while they're awake.

Let me ask this: Why do you parents complain about how tough and expensive it is to raise your children? I mean, c'mon, you knew it was going to be tough and expensive before you had them, right?

Oh and I love how people complain about teachers complaining about pay. Like YOU'VE never complained about your job or salary??? C'mon now ... everybody complains about their job and salary. Heck I have an AWESOME job and overly bloated salary and even I complain occasionally.
2009-03-11 5:19 PM
in reply to: #2011819

Modesto, California
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
wgraves7582 - 2009-03-11 2:06 PM

Move to NY - we have teachers $50-70K regularly - to me that is good money.

Not that they do not deserve it because you guys earn every penny by having to deal with children like mine all day long

I know someone who is an assistant making this kind of money, add in the half days and the absurd amount of holidays and premium health benefits and I think you can make a case they are overpaid!

2009-03-11 5:19 PM
in reply to: #2011983

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

mr2tony - 2009-03-11 5:18 PM Try dealing with 20 to 30 eight-year olds for eight hours a day for nine months a year. Most people constantly bi*** and complain about their children, yet only actually deal with them for about four to five hours a day after school while they're awake. Let me ask this: Why do you parents complain about how tough and expensive it is to raise your children? I mean, c'mon, you knew it was going to be tough and expensive before you had them, right? Oh and I love how people complain about teachers complaining about pay. Like YOU'VE never complained about your job or salary??? C'mon now ... everybody complains about their job and salary. Heck I have an AWESOME job and overly bloated salary and even I complain occasionally.

BASTAGE!

2009-03-11 5:22 PM
in reply to: #2011951

Member
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Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
My girlfriend, sister and brother-in-law are all teachers. They all work far more than eight hours a day on average during the school year. They also work during the summer preparing lesson plans or taking continuing education. Some teachers are paid well and others are paid very poorly, but that varies greatly from district to district.

IMO, the problem with education is not teacher salaries. The problem is with the teachers' union and the school administrations. The teachers' union are more interested in protecting their members' paychecks than their abilities to teach. I suppose that is correct in our capitalist system, but it doesn't lead to the best education. The school administrations are more interested in their empire than education.

Please note that I believe strongly that the federal government should NOT get involved. I highly doubt they can come up with a process that will lead to a good education in a rural town in Nebraska and the inner city of Chicago.



2009-03-11 6:28 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Got Wahoo?
5423
5000100100100100
San Antonio
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

I have to agree... One of the soccer moms I sit on the sidelines with dips into "complain about pay" mode from time to time. We're friends, so it's not an issue, but finally I asked her what she made:

 62 k (she's 39).

 

I laughed at her and said that sounded like fair pay. Her response (she adopted a slight but noticiable "people are not alowed to say teachers are well paid" was "not for what I do.... I have a masters. I work till 4-5, not 3, and sometimes till 6, and when I don't work late, I have to work from home jsut to grade papers"

I thought about the 12:00am call I had to make to India and wondered which would be more diffricult, grading papers or desiphering the indian dialect while discussing server configurations....

I laughed and told her I'd hire her. She wouldn't have holidays off, or summers or spring break, she'd work 10 hours a day standard and while she wouldn't have to work weekends, if she wanted to earn 100% of her pay she had better. She would know going into the job that we would fire here if she didn't achieve her numbers. Also, that her job would be more technical, and stressful, than teaching could possibly be. And I'd start her at 10k less than she was earning now.

 

2009-03-11 6:37 PM
in reply to: #2011802

Champion
5529
500050025
Nashville, TN
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?

Not wanting to pile on here but here are some statistics to think about--

FL Per Capita Income $26,696
FL Household Median Income $47,804 (Census 2008)

FL Averge Salary for Public Teachers $46,930 (SREB 2008)

A single teacher makes roughly the equivalent as the median income of the state.  I would say that many standards that is a good salary.  Furthermore, teaching is a form of public service.  You shouldn't expect to be paid what you are worth because you are a steward of taxpayers money.

This coming from someone who works in higher education for state government.  My counterparts at private research firms have tried to hire me in the past for nearly double my current salary.  It doesn't bother me a bit to turn it down.  I get more satisfaction from working in the public sector.  

(I will refrain from the discussion on what truly needs to be reformed in education)

2009-03-11 7:08 PM
in reply to: #2011983

Elite
3290
20001000100100252525
Oliver, BC, "Wine Capital of Canada"
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
Why do you hate us?
2009-03-11 7:32 PM
in reply to: #2012102

Pro
6767
500010005001001002525
the Alabama part of Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA?
ADollar79 - 2009-03-11 7:37 PM

A single teacher makes roughly the equivalent as the median income of the state.  I would say that many standards that is a good salary.  Furthermore, teaching is a form of public service.  You shouldn't expect to be paid what you are worth because you are a steward of taxpayers money.

I don't think I agree with this idea.  I believe people should be paid what they are worth.  Otherwise, why would people put out any effort in their jobs?  Conversely, if you want to see being paid as being a steward of other people's money, most publicly traded companies should adopt a similar standard.  After all, they are not running their own business for their own gain, they are the stewards of the shareholders' investment.  But the mantra in American business has always been that the sky-high salaries of CEO's and such is that "they are worth it", and if they are not given golden deals, they will go elsewhere. 

I think it is ironic that we often hear people say "children are our future", yet we invest so little in them.  Teachers are generally devalued as professionals, pediatricians are amongst the poorest paid physicians (granted still a good living, but compare it to a general internist who has the same amount of training), and of course day care workers really get the short end of the stick. 

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