what kind of intervals for bike speed increase

Never do intervals. Just did a 10-mile TT where I averaged 24.6. I just ride. Lots. Well, not as much as I have in the past... but I'm getting  old.

Rarely do I ride "as quick as I can" outside of races.

Edited by the bear 2009-08-19 3:38 PM

Thirty-nine pages, Jorge? Can you give us the Reader's Digest version?

basically ride lots 

LOL!!!

yes well ride lots is the standard template answer....

which works.  but i want to do well in my relay in 6 weeks.  so i want to do more then just ride lots.  i never do intervals.  i tend to just ride.  but have been rethinking this a bit.

Just answering your question:


Edited by the bear 2009-08-19 7:53 PM

I try to set training route PRs when I feel fresh and strong. I believe that If I'm getting faster in training, I'll be faster at racing.

I usually go out to my first split point at the same effort every ride (about 6/10). Based on that split (and the wind direction), I'll decide how hard to push to the next split point. If I have a chance to PR, I'll push the last six miles or so hard and try to PR the route.

Today was weird (but good). Because the wind was so huge, I was a couple minutes behind PR pace at every split and so I never increased my effort. But with only 1.5 miles to go I'd caught up to my PR split thanks to the wind (which didn't die off untill later in the evening than usual). I felt very fresh since I'd done the entire ride relatively easy. So I hammered the last 1.5 miles (which climbs 400 feet), set a PR, and climbed the hill 50 seconds faster than I've ever done before.

lol, it was an ongoing thread during the winter. I basically posted sessions (60-90min) targeting threshold, VO2 and Tempo power to work on increasing your cycling power overall.

Yes ride lots, but also the message is to don't waste the limited time some of us have for training riding easy/steady. If we have 4-5 hrs for riding a week we should make'em count! The plan had ways to do tests and workouts based on RPE, HRM or power.

I'll revisit the plan and post an updated version sometime on December...

I personally do my intervals in a similar way to run intervals.
I like to do intervals at 80-90% or MHR for 2 minutes with a 2-4 minute rest and then repeat 6 times.
I think it has helped my speed.

You might also look at it like this-since your goal is to get a higher average speed, you can also focus on increasing strength-hill riding or doing some work on the bigger gears, as well as speed-doing some sprints-hence the intervals.

Not sure if that helps.

More hlpful than your reply which, I'm sure, took a lot of thought on your part.

easy there fella's.
I think the ST thread has taken place this month already.

Bear didn't give the "ride lots" answer; instead he said that he never does intervals which in context of the OP seems like a useful contribution.

Shane

Not to hyjack (too much) but I believe you would be well served to do some reading on intervals and how to structure them.

In general, here are some rough guidelines when developing intervals for given intensity:

Bike
Threshold (zone 4) - 2x20minute with 2 minutes easy
VO2max (zone 5a) - 5x5minute with 3 minutes easy

Run
Threshold - normally 20 minute continuous but could be something like 6x1km with 30seconds recovery
VO2max - 6x800m with 400m jog recovery

Shane

wow that is a long interval 2 x 20 in z4?

i am currently on the Oly to HIM bridge 12 weeks and the bike workout yesterday called for the following:

10 min WU

10 x 2' interval in z3-z4 same time rest so 10 x 2' in z1 for rest high cadence

10 min CD

thanks all.  input is very much appreciated.  i jsut got a little worried, my last sprint had a bike leg of only 8 miles and my bike ave has been steadily increasing with fastest being 22.8 mph for a 10 mile course.  but it seems that this last one I don't know if its windy conditions or what my bike really fell apeart.

but i still managed to crush my run PR.  so it was over training on the bike or i don't know what.  but hence i wanted to make sure i continue the correct training. 

Yeah ........

"Ride Lots"

While it is a fairly long interval, since your z4 should be around the pace you could maintain for around an hour in a race so doing 40 minutes total with a short recovery interval in training is a solid training session but shouldn't be unreasonable (not every ride though ).

Shane

This user's post has been ignored.

IMO, two TTs a month apart is not enough information to come to any real conclusions on what the training between them accomplished. There's just way to many variables involved. I have no opinion on what "riding lots" at a moderate pace will or won't improve because I've just never trained the bike that way.

IMO, common sense says that you should train like you race as much as your body can handle. So that's how I've always trained on the bike. Eg. if you're training for a 56 mile bike which you plan on riding at a 7/10 effort, you should replicate that in training as much as possible on the clock (keeping as many variables constant as possible for each ride). With a lot of data points (Ie. times for the rides), you should see an obvious pattern of your 7/10 effort on that distance gradually resulting in faster avg mph. And, your recovery times should also decrease as the bike distance/effort becomes routine.

This is the distance for which I'm currrently training and like I said above, I always ride the first seven miles or so at the exact same effort (which is downhill and gives me a good warmup). At the first little climb I ramp up my effort to HIM pace (7/10) and hold that for most of the ride. I only push a hard effort for the last 7 miles or so (all uphill) if I have an opportunity to PR the course. That's about the max that my body can handle and still recover enough to do the same thing the next day. But this gives me a lot of data points from which I can determine if I'm really improving.

If I was training for a 40k TT, I'd be training similarly but at a higher effort for a 40k section, and then probably easy for more miles just because I love bike riding.

(Not training advice for anyone. Not implying this is optimal. Just what I believe, and which is a good fit for my personality.)

ETA:
If you were to look at my logs, you'd see that I don't always train that way but that's generally because circumstances, and preferences get in the way. In the last two months I've switched to a new race bike which I had problems tweaking the fit and adjusting to. I've also had two AC separations. Plus, sometimes I just want to ride longer or climb more.

Edited by breckview 2009-08-20 9:11 AM

I consider interval riding an important part of training, just as important as a 3 hour ride at race pace. 


Interval training can vary and that is ok.

Some days we will stick to 5 x 2 miles at 100% effort.  Other days it will be 2x 1 mile, 2x2 miles, 2 x 1 miles or even the 2 x 5 miles hard with 5 min rest between.  Just depends on the time of the year, etc. 

There is no "Cure All" and just "riding lots"  is important but will not get you where you need to go.

Find a coach or someone that is an outstanding biker that you know and pick their brain. 

for the shorter distances 20 and 40k, i have found a workout structure like this to help best (note this is what has worked well for me, and is what i was using after trial and error with a focus on short course racing).

tihs was coming off of a few years of the just ride, ride hard some program, so there was a base there to start.

on 4 rides a week, training looked a lot like this

1 day: harder short intervals, normally at 20 min power, or just faster, something like 8-14x2 min, 2-4 min easy between each.

1 day: threshold work, alternated workouts depending on where iw as riding, where in the training cycle. something like 2x20 min, 3x15, 4x10, 6x8 etc. this was normally worked into an hour and a half ride.

1 day: longer tempo work. 2-3 hour ride, as much at tempo as you can stand. or on easier days something like 2-3x20 min at tempo.

1 day: alternate long ride and hill repeat days. if longer ride include tempo intervals, if shoter hills.

on weeks with a 5th or 6th ride, would keep them easier, 1-2 hours spinning.

this worked well for my shorter races, and got me from ave 23-24 in shorter races last year to 26.3 in ah illy 17 mile bike like of a tri and 27.5 for a 14 mile TT a few weeks back.

some weeks i would cut out the hills/tempo in the longer ride and have 3 easier rides if needed.

Not really: those sessions are indeed mentally and physically challenging, but *if* you defined your training levels (zones) correctly you then should be able to do ride @ z4 (functional threshold power) for around 60 min, hence doing 2x20 with rest in between shouldn't leave you like you are about to pass out.

The best sessions IMO for triathletes in general are:

VO2 max (5' max power or 5MP)-  important for all athletes but primarily for those which VO2 and Threshold power are close to each other.  This session obviously focus on increasing one's VO2 max power. sample session: 5x2' (2'), 5x3 (3'), 3x5' (5') @ z5 (5 min max power). This sessions are quite challegig and taxing hence I don't like athletes do more than 15' worth at this intensity (20' tops)

20 min power (20MP) - it is more intense than Threshold sets but less taxing than VO2. This is a great session for  Sprint/Oly distance athletes and even 70.3 specialists. This session targets to increase threhsold power from the top. sample session 5-6x4' @ 20MP (1')

Threshold power (60' max power or 60MP) - this is the most important important trainig intensity for all endurance athletes from sprint to IM. The higher your power threshold the faster you could go if adequate training is achieved. Using this intensity one can develop training leves (zones), plans and even predict performance. sample sessions: 4x10' (2'), 2x15'(3'), 2x20' (4') @ threshold (60MP).

Tempo power (76-95% of threshold power) - this is an often overlooked or even avoided training intensity (without any valid reason) and referred by some as the 'grey' zone. However, this is a fantastic training intensity for those training for HIM/IM and one that can yield great fitness gains in terms of increasing power threshold but ALSO increasing muscle fiber fatigue resistance (endurance), among other very important physiolgical adaptations. IOW you can get a long of bang for your time training at this intensity. sample sessions: indoors- 3x30', 2x45'@ 90% of threshold (2-4'), outdoors - 2-3hrs @ 80-90% of threshold.

The above session target specific adaptations that each athlete might want to focus on depending on fitness, goals, limiters, goal distance, time availability, etc. All sessions above usually also include a warm up and cool down. You do NOT want to do all sessions in one week or cycle, ideally you will periodirize targeting those intensities that are not specific to your goal distance during the general phase and then target those specific to your goal distance during the specific phase. It is normal to have a mix of some of this sessions in the same week during the same cycle but this will depend from athlete to athlete goals, limiters, etc.

I do believe riding lots is a great general answer to the OP's question, however, I also believe without a proper advice/guidance some athletes can waste a lot of time riding at inadequate intensities (i.e. doing "base" training a lower intensities) riding lots. Granted, as long as training is consistent and they do ride lots they will improve, however, doing smart-specific training, one can improve much faster. I hope that helps...