I'm in the middle and it sux
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2005-05-21 3:25 PM |
New user 723 | Subject: I'm in the middle and it sux I'm in this local bike club because I enjoy group riding. The thing is is that it's broken down into A, B, and C, groups. I can't be w/ the C's because I'm to good but most of the guys in the B's should actually be A's. They set like a 25 mph average speed and I get dropped like after 5 miles. There more nuts than me and it totally defeats the purpose of being in a bike club if I can't keep up with them and I can't ride w/ the C's. There are other ppl tht get dropped to but I'm usually the first to go and they never drop back untill the end. It's quite annoying and frustrating. |
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2005-05-21 3:36 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Expert 1065 Montreal | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux My advice would be drop the club. There aren't any benefits from it anyway. You can't draft in Tri. You might as well learn to ride alone and motivate yourself alone. |
2005-05-21 4:43 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Expert 936 Westchester County NY | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux Find another club! Or see if some of Cs are ready to move up, and find some Bs that aren't A wannabes, and lead another group. Once the local clubs in my area has a B ride, and B+ ride. They have done a pretty good job of defining the average speed of the different groups. The ride leaders are good about trying to keep the ride within the standards defined for that particular level of riding. Even though we can't draft in our races there's a tremendous benefit to training in a group with riders that are a little stronger then you. If you can sit in with those guys you get stronger. One thing that I try to do when riding with agroup taht's better then me is to stay closer to the front. That way if I start losing it, I can try to jump on another wheel. |
2005-05-21 5:45 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux I agree with wookie. since you can't draft at Tris is better to ride alone... Edited by amiine 2005-05-21 5:46 PM |
2005-05-21 6:01 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux Why is it assumed that drafting is less work or easier, or "no benefit"? Often I work harder with a group of equal and better cyclists than I do solo. Wouldn't recommend it for every workout, but there are plenty of benefits to riding with a group. |
2005-05-21 6:14 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux Yeah, I've rode a couple times with people from my gym, all triathletes, but they too set 25 mph pacelines and go 80+ miles. Both beyond me mileage and speedwise. I like riding with them, but have resigned myself to riding alone and/or finding another group. Going that far that fast and trying to keep up isn't good for my training. |
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2005-05-21 7:21 PM in reply to: #161075 |
Expert 1065 Montreal | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux the bear - 2005-05-21 6:01 PM Why is it assumed that drafting is less work or easier. There is no assumption that drafting is less work or easier: It is less work and is easier. Riders who are drafting are doing less work. Team cycling is based on this - why have domestiques at all if it doesn't make things easier for the star and the hillers? http://www.tiaa-cref.com/cycling/cycling_u_strategy.html Personally I cannot see the benefits of going out with a group that drops me the first chance it gets or being stuck with a group that cannot keep pace with me. Both are no win situations for the original poster. |
2005-05-21 7:36 PM in reply to: #161102 |
Expert 936 Westchester County NY | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux Yes it is easier to sit in and be taken along in the draft. However there is a benefit to sitting in with riders who are a little faster then you. On your own maybe your average is 19 MPH, but in a somewhat faster group you may be able to average 22 MPH. Your muscles get used to that faster pace, and your average pace on your own will increase. My average pace in Olympic distance races improved tremendously from riding in a group with faster riders. I've posted faster bike splits in my late 40s and early 50s then I did when I was in my late 30s and early 40s. Most of this I credit to group riding. Sometimes I get dropped, but I keep my pace up and I treat it like a time trial. |
2005-05-21 7:50 PM in reply to: #161102 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux Wookiee - 2005-05-21 6:21 PM the bear - 2005-05-21 6:01 PM Why is it assumed that drafting is less work or easier. There is no assumption that drafting is less work or easier: It is less work and is easier. Riders who are drafting are doing less work. Team cycling is based on this - why have domestiques at all if it doesn't make things easier for the star and the hillers? http://www.tiaa-cref.com/cycling/cycling_u_strategy.htmlPersonally I cannot see the benefits of going out with a group that drops me the first chance it gets or being stuck with a group that cannot keep pace with me. Both are no win situations for the original poster. Wrong. Drafting does not make necessarily make it easier. Done right, cycling can be faster to ride in a pace line. That doesn't mean you're slacking or putting forth less effort or pedaling at a lower heart rate. You may be putting forth less effort per MPH, but achieving great speed for your effort. Team cycling uses a strategy where the "star" is protected and saved for the end of the leg. That doesn't have to take place in a noncompetitive group training ride, where riders take equal time "pulling" the pace line. Agreed there is no benefit in the original poster's situation, but that was not a group ride. That was him trying to keep up with a group riding above his ability. You guys are dimissing group riding as having NO BENEFIT and that is, again, wrong. Edited by the bear 2005-05-21 7:56 PM |
2005-05-22 12:44 AM in reply to: #161042 |
Extreme Veteran 698 SW part of US | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux Here is my take on riding with clubs (or groups for that matter). If you ride with a group, you will training their way... In triathlons this can be a handicap or it may be a benefit. Which is which is totally dependent upon what the group is doing... by that I mean, if the group is riding your training program it is a positive... if not, it will be a negative. A, B or C groups try to define levels of fitness and experience. However, what it doesn't do is define future expected level of fitness which should be constantly being re-defined by experience. But this fitness and experience will only be positive if the group is training with a common purpose. Groups bike rides are a double edge sword when it comes to training.... they can hurt you or help you... it is very relative idea for the triathlete (i.e., non-roadie). Personally, I like to ride with groups but seldom do because I want to train with my goals in mind... as a result, I ride solo almost all the time. And, when I do... I almost always pull back and will pull for/ride with weaker bikers because I can control the tempo and use the slower pace as an aerobic base building training session (and, oh yea... I never drop weaker bikers... if I'm in a slower group then I accept that as my pace... like they say, "When in Rome..."). FWIW Joe Moya |
2005-05-22 4:04 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Master 1315 Shreveport, LA | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux I usually ride by myself or with one other person, but sometimes with a small group (3-5 people). A few times during the group rides of 4-5 people the two faster riders will take off in a sprint for a few miles. I still remember after doing this one time, the second time I stayed with them at 22-23 MPH for a few miles until we stopped sprinting. They have pushed me to be a better cyclist. I don't ride with them all of the time, but if I didn't ride with better cyclists some times I don't think I would push myself that hard. |
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2005-05-22 5:09 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Champion 4902 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux Whatever group you ride with should state a specific speed that they will be maintaining on a given ride. Staying with this group will only serve to frustrate you, get together with the other cyclists who also get dropped, maybe even some of the cyclists from goup C who are ready for a faster group but not quite ready for B, and form your own group. Set a realistic speed that the group will maintain a training ride. |
2005-05-22 5:27 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Veteran 340 Greenville, NC | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux why not ride with the C's but ride at the front. Pull the entire ride without a rest, and maybe it will be a decent workout for you, and give some slower riders a chance to go a bit faster. |
2005-05-22 7:40 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Extreme Veteran 617 Covington (New Orleans), La | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux Can you form a B-minus group? All kidding aside - are there others in the same boat as you - too fast for C but not quite ready for B? |
2005-05-22 9:02 PM in reply to: #161042 |
Elite 2468 Racine, WI | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux I'll throw my 2 cents in...form your own mini group. We don't have A, B and C riders in our club but when we have a large enough group we'll almost always end up splitting into 2 smaller groups to accomodate more people. By mutual agreement at some point the "breakaway" group just keeps on going, and the slower group does thier own speed. Do you think if you suggested something like that it would work? Edited by CindyK 2005-05-22 9:03 PM |
2005-05-23 8:19 AM in reply to: #161042 |
Champion 6786 Two seat rocket plane | Subject: RE: I'm in the middle and it sux The best thing about riding with a group (particularly one that's faster than you are) is that the group will push you to a higher level of cycling than you could achieve on your own. Drafting and pacelining, in addition to providing a set of bike-handliong skills that triathletes are infamous for not having, allows you to have intervals of riding at a pace you could not maintain on your own, then being able to sit in the pack and recover before doing it again. This kind of riding will make you faster. Now, if you are getting dropped by the group after 5 miles this week, make it your goal to hang on for 6 miles next week, 8 miles the week after.....and so on. Work on bringing yourself up to their level.....and dropping them like a bad habit next year (or sooner) Yep, it's going to hurt, but you'll come out the other side a whole lot stronger. Back when I first started road biking with any regularity, the group I rode with usually spat me out the back on the first hill, and I'd see them at the finish. Gradually though, I got stronger due to being pushed by the group and driven by my fragile, and now bruised, ego. These days, I can keep up on the hills, and drop the lot of them on the flats. As a direct result of this process, my solo bike speed has greatly increased (from a 16-17 mph average to a 18-19 or better avg with the same 80-100 ft/ mi average climb rate around here). Stick it out. You'll be glad you did. |
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