Converting my 11-25 to 11-27
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2010-04-19 6:33 PM |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 I am doing a somewhat hilly race and I have a couple cassetts to chose from. A couple 12-27's and a 11-25. I have provided the gearing below: Now here is my question... I would love to keep the 11 for the descents and flats, but get the 27 if I need a bail out gear. Can I make the "best of both worlds" combination? I want to say YES with my reasoning as follows. Edited by Kido 2010-04-19 6:34 PM |
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2010-04-19 6:43 PM in reply to: #2802709 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 I find a difference with a 11 vs. 12 on fast down hills as I spin out a little later. Let us know how it works, I'm thinking of doing same thing for my upcoming race. |
2010-04-19 6:46 PM in reply to: #2802730 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 Now that I think about it. The amount of time I spend in the 11 or 12 is probably FAR more than the 25 or 27 (if at all). Maybe I should just gut out the steep stuff on the 25 for the couple minutes I need to and leave it as it was purchased 11-25. |
2010-04-19 6:47 PM in reply to: #2802709 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by PennState 2010-04-19 6:48 PM |
2010-04-19 6:50 PM in reply to: #2802740 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 PennState - 2010-04-19 4:47 PM My opinion would be the 12-27. I think you have am upcoming Ironman, and you will need the extra hill gears moreso than the 11 on the downhills. In general Ironman is about conserving energy and not pushing flats and downhills. Good luck very good point. My legs might be happy during the run if I spin out a little earlier and have to coast! |
2010-04-19 6:53 PM in reply to: #2802709 |
Champion 5529 Nashville, TN | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 How many times do you wish you had one more easy gear during a race? How many times do you wish you had one more hard gear during a race? The reality is the 99% of us would benefit more from the 27 than the 11. The 27 will let you spin your legs rather than trashing them. That will help you more on the run than the .5 mph your gain for 300 ft on the downhill. |
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2010-04-19 7:21 PM in reply to: #2802709 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 I'd be more inclined to go with the 12 instead of the 11. My reasoning is that you are a bigger guy, you will be cruising the downhills without much difficulty regardless. I don't think the 11 is going to give you that much time in that gear before you are spinning out. Then there is that whole run issue |
2010-04-19 7:30 PM in reply to: #2802748 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2010-04-19 7:41 PM in reply to: #2802709 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 Buy a 11-28 and get best of both worlds. I bought that cassette when Sram first came out with it in Fall of '07 to use for IMLP. It may be tricky to get older 10 speed to shift right due to the specs of Shimano stuff back 3-5 years ago the difference between high and low gears would work for 12-27 spread not greater. I was able to get it to shift well on my road bike and at times on my tri bike but sometimes I could either get the 11 or the 28 but not both so I'd always opt to adjust shifting so I 'd get the 28. |
2010-04-19 7:51 PM in reply to: #2802709 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 I wish I actually used my smallest gears enough that this would even be an issue for me... |
2010-04-19 7:54 PM in reply to: #2802757 |
Champion 6627 Rochester Hills, Michigan | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 ADollar79 - 2010-04-19 7:53 PM How many times do you wish you had one more easy gear during a race? How many times do you wish you had one more hard gear during a race? The reality is the 99% of us would benefit more from the 27 than the 11. The 27 will let you spin your legs rather than trashing them. That will help you more on the run than the .5 mph your gain for 300 ft on the downhill. x2. Let's check out the way this could play out. You don't have an 11? You're legs are slightly fresher and you've given up a few seconds on a downhill. No biggie. You don't have a 27? Could be walking your bike up a hill, or thrashing them so you couldn't use the 11 on the downhill even if you had it. Biggie. 12-27. |
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2010-04-19 8:31 PM in reply to: #2802709 |
Master 2426 Central Indiana | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 Spinning out top gear issue comes up a lot in cycling BBs- 11t vs 12t is pretty meaningless in distance events. In typical 53t big ring, cadence of 105rpm is roughly 38+ vs 41+ mph respectively. Honestly- on 40mph downhills you are prob better off tucking tight with those pedals level & coasting to conserving energy. And if you are worried about maintaining 38 vs 41mph on the flats solo in 112mi bike leg, you should be getting off the damn computer & talking to Johan Bruyneel |
2010-04-19 8:36 PM in reply to: #2802882 |
Master 1324 Rochester, NY | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 KathyG - 2010-04-19 8:41 PM Buy a 11-28 and get best of both worlds. I bought that cassette when Sram first came out with it in Fall of '07 to use for IMLP. It may be tricky to get older 10 speed to shift right due to the specs of Shimano stuff back 3-5 years ago the difference between high and low gears would work for 12-27 spread not greater. I was able to get it to shift well on my road bike and at times on my tri bike but sometimes I could either get the 11 or the 28 but not both so I'd always opt to adjust shifting so I 'd get the 28. This is my suggestion as well. Get an 11-28. |
2010-04-20 6:25 AM in reply to: #2802709 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 Like others have posted, if you are doing an iron distance event with lots of climbing, then I would just suggest the 12-27. If you spin out the 12, then tuck into the aero position and coast. |
2010-04-20 6:54 AM in reply to: #2802709 |
Pro 3705 Vestavia Hills | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 While interested in whether the mix + match combination might work, agree that 'overgearing' is more hazardous to your run than 'undergearing'. What is the saying that Gordo is so fond of ... "you have your entire run to think about whether you undercooked the bike"? Fwiw, I just picked up an 11-28 to use for the Cheaha Challenge Century this weekend ... and the new gearing worked great on my Ultegra 6700 drive train. |
2010-04-20 7:04 AM in reply to: #2802709 |
Expert 1046 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 I am a 19MPH racer on hilly Maryland courses ... I ride 50/34X12-27 on my roadie and 53/39X11-28 on my tri bike. I love compact cranks. I'll eventually switch my tri bike to 50X36. 36 little will be perfect, I think. FWIW, I think 11-28 is a little to much speed and spacing between gears. I prefer 12-27. I would never miss 53X11 (probably will never even use it!) and really don't see using even 50X11 all that much ... 50X12 is plenty for me. |
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2010-04-20 7:55 AM in reply to: #2802999 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 Oldteen - 2010-04-19 9:31 PM Spinning out top gear issue comes up a lot in cycling BBs- 11t vs 12t is pretty meaningless in distance events. In typical 53t big ring, cadence of 105rpm is roughly 38+ vs 41+ mph respectively. Honestly- on 40mph downhills you are prob better off tucking tight with those pedals level & coasting to conserving energy. And if you are worried about maintaining 38 vs 41mph on the flats solo in 112mi bike leg, you should be getting off the damn computer & talking to Johan Bruyneel 12-27. Being in flatland FL I changed to a 13-25 (from 12-23) as I hardly ever used the 53/12. Went a rode some central FL hills 1.5 years ago and spun out at ~34mph then tucked tight and kept accelerating up to 45-46mph. |
2010-04-20 10:57 AM in reply to: #2803617 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 I will get us back on point... I guess I wasn't REALLY asking which to use, but the convo went that way. The conversation is good about gearing, and I have decided to make it easy on myself and just go with the 12-27. I decided to save the legs on the 2 sections of 15 miles of downhill. (looped course). HOWEVER, let's pretend I wanted to do what I originally asked. COULD you replace the last two rings on the 11-25 with the 24 and 27 from the 12-27 and have it work? Anyone try it. Edited by Kido 2010-04-20 11:01 AM |
2010-04-20 11:00 AM in reply to: #2802882 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 KathyG - 2010-04-19 5:41 PM Buy a 11-28 and get best of both worlds. I bought that cassette when Sram first came out with it in Fall of '07 to use for IMLP. It may be tricky to get older 10 speed to shift right due to the specs of Shimano stuff back 3-5 years ago the difference between high and low gears would work for 12-27 spread not greater. I was able to get it to shift well on my road bike and at times on my tri bike but sometimes I could either get the 11 or the 28 but not both so I'd always opt to adjust shifting so I 'd get the 28. once again, good advice from you! I did not know of a 11-28. I will look into that. However, I don't think it's important enough to drop money on. I have been cool on even the steepest stuff around here (12% in a lot of places) with my 27 and compact crank. I can stand up on the rare and crazy steep stuff (up to 20%). |
2010-04-20 11:00 AM in reply to: #2804238 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 Kido - 2010-04-20 12:57 PM I will get us back on point... HOWEVER, let's pretend I wanted to do what I originally asked. COULD you replace the last two rings on the 11-25 with the 24 and 27 from the 12-27 and have it work? Anyone try it. It should work based on the cogs you've listed (even if they aren't all individual cogs). Shane |
2010-04-20 11:09 AM in reply to: #2804255 |
Champion 6627 Rochester Hills, Michigan | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 Kido - 2010-04-20 12:00 PM KathyG - 2010-04-19 5:41 PM Buy a 11-28 and get best of both worlds. I bought that cassette when Sram first came out with it in Fall of '07 to use for IMLP. It may be tricky to get older 10 speed to shift right due to the specs of Shimano stuff back 3-5 years ago the difference between high and low gears would work for 12-27 spread not greater. I was able to get it to shift well on my road bike and at times on my tri bike but sometimes I could either get the 11 or the 28 but not both so I'd always opt to adjust shifting so I 'd get the 28. once again, good advice from you! I did not know of a 11-28. I will look into that. However, I don't think it's important enough to drop money on. I have been cool on even the steepest stuff around here (12% in a lot of places) with my 27 and compact crank. I can stand up on the rare and crazy steep stuff (up to 20%). Jim, according to Shimano and the LBS (when I checked 2 years ago), 11-28 isn't recommended - even though you can do it under some circumstances - the issue is the 28. Couple reasons - the shifting (as documented above), plus if you don't change the chain to a longer chain - in some cases - you can break the derailleur by accidentally shifting into 52-28. Not that you ever would on purpose, but it's a consideration. Lastly - due to the gearing gaps in an any of these bigger cassettes, you might end up missing that sweet-spot gears for the flats. On my 12/27, I'm missing a 22mph, 92rpm gear on when in my big ring. Gotta switch to small ring and run it way over at the bottom of the cluster, which is pretty cross-chained. I miss that gear. But you likely won't know that until you try it. And the chances of it being a gap you notice are bigger, obviously, on 11-28. Just more for your brainz to think about. |
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2010-04-20 11:14 AM in reply to: #2804291 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 rkreuser - 2010-04-20 9:09 AM Kido - 2010-04-20 12:00 PM KathyG - 2010-04-19 5:41 PM Buy a 11-28 and get best of both worlds. I bought that cassette when Sram first came out with it in Fall of '07 to use for IMLP. It may be tricky to get older 10 speed to shift right due to the specs of Shimano stuff back 3-5 years ago the difference between high and low gears would work for 12-27 spread not greater. I was able to get it to shift well on my road bike and at times on my tri bike but sometimes I could either get the 11 or the 28 but not both so I'd always opt to adjust shifting so I 'd get the 28. once again, good advice from you! I did not know of a 11-28. I will look into that. However, I don't think it's important enough to drop money on. I have been cool on even the steepest stuff around here (12% in a lot of places) with my 27 and compact crank. I can stand up on the rare and crazy steep stuff (up to 20%). Jim, according to Shimano and the LBS (when I checked 2 years ago), 11-28 isn't recommended - even though you can do it under some circumstances - the issue is the 28. Couple reasons - the shifting (as documented above), plus if you don't change the chain to a longer chain - in some cases - you can break the derailleur by accidentally shifting into 52-28. Not that you ever would on purpose, but it's a consideration. Lastly - due to the gearing gaps in an any of these bigger cassettes, you might end up missing that sweet-spot gears for the flats. On my 12/27, I'm missing a 22mph, 92rpm gear on when in my big ring. Gotta switch to small ring and run it way over at the bottom of the cluster, which is pretty cross-chained. I miss that gear. But you likely won't know that until you try it. And the chances of it being a gap you notice are bigger, obviously, on 11-28. Just more for your brainz to think about. nice. Yeah, I'm 99% sure I'm NOT getting a 11-28. Interesting that it's out there. I can't imagine the difference between a 27 and 28 being that significant. I need to check the calc just to intertain my curiosity. |
2010-04-20 11:30 AM in reply to: #2802709 |
, Texas | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 Another idea would be to put the 11 in place of the 12 on the 12-27 cassette. I know personally I'd miss the 16 more than I'd miss the 12. The only time I'd be in 53-12 would be on a downhill (in which the 53-11 would probably be better anyway). If you do this, be sure to use the lockring from the 11-25 cassette. Now, you probably won't have perfect, smooth shifting between the 11 & 13 as they're probably not ramped for each other, but back in the day no cogs were ramped and they still shifted gears. I've done this before on an 8-speed cassette (made a 12-26 cassette from a 13-26 & 12-??, if memory serves) and didn't have any complaints from it. |
2010-04-20 5:00 PM in reply to: #2804238 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2010-04-20 5:03 PM in reply to: #2805473 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Converting my 11-25 to 11-27 gvey - 2010-04-20 3:00 PM Kido - 2010-04-20 10:57 AM I will get us back on point... I guess I wasn't REALLY asking which to use, but the convo went that way. HOWEVER, let's pretend I wanted to do what I originally asked. COULD you replace the last two rings on the 11-25 with the 24 and 27 from the 12-27 and have it work? Anyone try it. I'm assuming you're using Shimano? Aren't the cassettes set up with the largest THREE cogs as one piece? I know all my cassettes are. Maybe the higher end cassettes (DA?) have separate cogs for the whole cassette but the largest three on my Ultegras are one piece. crap, hard to remember. I think it's mix and match. I KNOW on has all the rings seperate as well as the spacers... You might be right about the big three now that I think about it. BUT it still wouldn't matter since it's only the two biggest that are different. the smallest in that case (the 21) is common and they are up against the 19. Then I could leave the 21,24,27 on and put the 11-19 rings over it. Edited by Kido 2010-04-20 5:04 PM |
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