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Fueling for long training run
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 2011-02-05 11:23 AM |
Regular  120  NJ |  Subject: Fueling for long training runWhen I do my weekly "long" run, I seem to run out of gas for the last 3 miles or so. Admittedly, training is a very new part of my life and I have not changed my dietary habits, but I am thinking perhaps Friday nights I should eat a meal intended to keep fuel in the tank for Saturday's 10+ mile excursions. I do eat a half bagel with about a tablespoon of almond butter 30min before heading out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.Thanks,Andrew |
| 2011-02-05 11:29 AM in reply to: #3340547 |
Extreme Veteran 1942   In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run Personally I mix some accelerade and take it in a fuel belt. Gels (like GU or Hammer Gel) work well too and you just need a little water to wash them down. For a 10 mile run in cool temps I don't really take anything. For longer than that a GU or two will help. There is a ton of stuff that is good- just try a few to find what you like. Edited by louiskie 2011-02-05 11:29 AM |
| 2011-02-05 11:39 AM in reply to: #3340547 |
Champion 7595  Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run As hinted by previous poster, this is not likely a nutrition issue but simply a fitness issue. Keep at it and it'll likely get better. You're probably burning less than 1500 calories during a 10 mile run, and you already have that in the tank. But if you want to try something, as previous poster suggested, take a gel or some sports drink. One gel at the start, and then one each 30-45 minutes is a decent plan. |
| 2011-02-05 12:13 PM in reply to: #3340547 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run Could be a pacing issue also (which ties into the fitness issue raised by Experior)- go out too fast and you feel it at the end, regardless of your nutrition. |
| 2011-02-05 12:54 PM in reply to: #3340557 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run Experior - 2011-02-05 12:39 PM As hinted by previous poster, this is not likely a nutrition issue but simply a fitness issue. Keep at it and it'll likely get better. You're probably burning less than 1500 calories during a 10 mile run, and you already have that in the tank. But if you want to try something, as previous poster suggested, take a gel or some sports drink. One gel at the start, and then one each 30-45 minutes is a decent plan. x2 on all the above. |
| 2011-02-05 2:17 PM in reply to: #3340547 |
Expert 1743 Glen Burnie, Maryland | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run I took a look at your log details I would guess a pacing/fitness/nutrition issue. You start out at a faster pace with a high HR. Your pace slows but so does your HR in the later miles. That would lead me to believe that you don't have the muscle endurance to maintain the beginning pace. My advice would be to start out slower (especially for the long runs). You'll find a pace and HR that you can maintain for the entire run. You'll be surprised to see that by maintaining a consistent (though "slower") pace you'll finish your run faster and feeling less spent than you do now. I also echo the nutrition advice. I would take some fluid and gel every 45 minutes or so. |
| 2011-02-05 2:23 PM in reply to: #3340547 |
Elite 3683 Whispering Pines, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run on long training runs, I only use water and/or maybe an electrolyte drink if it's really hot out...i just make sure i eat a small snack an 30 minutes to an hour before... imo, you really don't need anything more just fyi, i never feel like i'm not going to finish i echo the above...probably a fitness issue, especially if you're starting out too fast. good luck! |
| 2011-02-05 2:49 PM in reply to: #3340547 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run 2 hour run today did you take in any fluid or calories during the run? If not you should. I do a gel every 40' on long run over 90'. Take your pace per mile and do it exactly the opposite next week. Start out running slow same pace as you did in your last mile this week and pick up the pace through the run. It will feel incredibly stupid slow to start but it will help you a lot to learn to pace with the goal to slightly negative split almost all runs but long runs are even more important. |
| 2011-02-05 3:55 PM in reply to: #3340707 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run d00d - 2011-02-05 3:23 PM on long training runs, I only use water and/or maybe an electrolyte drink if it's really hot out...i just make sure i eat a small snack an 30 minutes to an hour before... imo, you really don't need anything more just fyi, i never feel like i'm not going to finish i echo the above...probably a fitness issue, especially if you're starting out too fast. good luck! I think that depends on what you call a long run. That's fine if you're only running 1-1.5 hours, but if it's 2-3 hours, that isn't enough for a lot of people. |
| 2011-02-05 4:05 PM in reply to: #3340781 |
Master 1890 Cypress, CA | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run TriMyBest - 2011-02-05 1:55 PM d00d - 2011-02-05 3:23 PM on long training runs, I only use water and/or maybe an electrolyte drink if it's really hot out...i just make sure i eat a small snack an 30 minutes to an hour before... imo, you really don't need anything more just fyi, i never feel like i'm not going to finish i echo the above...probably a fitness issue, especially if you're starting out too fast. good luck! I think that depends on what you call a long run. That's fine if you're only running 1-1.5 hours, but if it's 2-3 hours, that isn't enough for a lot of people. Agree with the above--once you've been exercising for 90 minutes or so continously, it doesn't matter what you ate before or (mostly) how fit you are--you need to take in some calories. Preferably simple carbs that will be easy to digest and go straight to work. Sports drink or gels work for a lot of people, my personal preference is Clif Bloks. Lately when I've been doing long runs in prep for a marathon (tomorrow!!), I'll start with a bottle of about half-strength Gatorade that I'll drink in the first few miles (there are a couple of spots on my route where I refill with water). Then after about mile 7 or 8 I'll pop a Clif Blok every 2 miles. I still get tired, but don't ever feel like I'm bonking. |
| 2011-02-05 5:15 PM in reply to: #3340547 |
Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run If your run is more than 90 min you can hit a gu at 45-60 min and then you should be fine for the last 30 min. |
| 2011-02-05 5:22 PM in reply to: #3340547 |
Elite 3495 SE | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run im not sure if this was mentioned but on big days, i usually fuel up/chow down nicely the night before a long run in the am. On IM and HIM distances i may even get up at 2-3am and pound down close to 1000 cals. But Im a big boy and I move fast for my size, burning up loads as I go along. |
| 2011-02-05 6:52 PM in reply to: #3340547 |
| Veteran 243 | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run http://www.hammernutrition.com |
| 2011-02-05 7:43 PM in reply to: #3340547 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run An interesting few points have been raised by some of the posts here. Perhaps they are worth making explicit. Yes, we all hear that you burn through your glycogen stores in X minutes (you'll see different Xs in different sources). That's really not a good way to think about it, for a lot of reasons. First (and least significant), the amount of glycogen that a person can store can change over time, in response to training and dietary habits. And of course, how much is actually stored depends on recent diet and exercise. Second, the amount of glycogen that is being burned per mile depends on how hard the person is running. Roughly: easier running leads to a higher ratio of fat to glycogen being burned. So if you run easier, your glycogen stores last longer. Third, calories are burned per mile, not per minute. Two otherwise identical runners will burn roughly (not exactly, but roughly) the same number of calories per mile even if one is running 6:00/mile and the other 10:00/mile. OP's long run is ~10 miles. Even if OP is relatively heavy (say around 200 lbs), at the pace he is running, that's around 840 calories per hour. He runs out of gas with 3 miles to go, so around 1:15 into the run, give or take. That's at around 1100 calories (I'm rounding everything up here). Not all of that is glycogen. (We could reasonably guesstimate ~75% is glycogen so maybe around 850 calories.) It is extremely unlikely that lack of glycogen is the problem here, IMO. Now, if he weighs 300 it could be a different story. (In that case, I'd say kudos to OP for running 10 miles at all!) |
| 2011-02-06 8:00 AM in reply to: #3340547 |
| Veteran 549 | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run This thread has been about calories but OP says he is still new at this. How long have you been running and how long have you been doing 10 miles as your long run each week? Extremely tired legs at the end may have nothing to do with nutrition. Have you considered that the reason the last three miles are always tough is that your long run should be more in the 7-8 mile range, not because you are low on calories? |
| 2011-02-06 9:06 AM in reply to: #3340547 |
Regular 120 NJ | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run Thanks for all the responses. I have been running, although not consistently for 3 years. I am now following the marathon plan acquired from this web-site. I have been doing a saturday long run of about 10 miles for the last 4 or five weeks, with three shorter runs during the week, an hour of swimming on sundays and a weekly spin class. I weigh about 172lbs and am 5'10" tall. According to my Garmin 405, my run burned approximately 1340 calories. This is not the gamin 405cx that measures calorie burn by heart rate, but rather by distance. Andrew. |
| 2011-02-07 7:37 AM in reply to: #3340547 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run I agree wholeheartedly with Experior. The problem is most likely not a fuel one, and definitely not related to the night before. You start out too hard. Fading in the last 3 miles of a 10 mile run is seldom a fuel issue, unless you're already depleted to start out with. I propose trying the experiment already mentioned: Start out slower, then get faster. Let us know what happens when you try that. |
| 2011-02-07 8:20 AM in reply to: #3341344 |
Extreme Veteran 590 Seattle | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run How long are your intermediate weekday runs? If you're going from 3-4 miles to 10, then you will likely have trouble. Slow down, build up to the distance. A gel never hurt anyone either! One should be sufficient, around mile 5-6. |
| 2011-02-07 8:25 AM in reply to: #3340781 |
Member 155 Reading, PA | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run TriMyBest - 2011-02-05 4:55 PM I think that depends on what you call a long run. That's fine if you're only running 1-1.5 hours, but if it's 2-3 hours, that isn't enough for a lot of people. Exactly! 1-1.5 hours I don't need anything but water assuming I ate some reasonable fuel before starting. But 2-3 hours . . I don't care who you are or what you are doing your body needs fuel to sustain the effort of a long training run. I typically figure on about 1 gel/hour for training runs. Be sure to drink water after the gel. |
| 2011-02-07 8:30 AM in reply to: #3342564 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run Scout7 - 2011-02-07 9:37 AM I agree wholeheartedly with Experior. The problem is most likely not a fuel one, and definitely not related to the night before. You start out too hard. Fading in the last 3 miles of a 10 mile run is seldom a fuel issue, unless you're already depleted to start out with. I propose trying the experiment already mentioned: Start out slower, then get faster. Let us know what happens when you try that. Agree completely. Shane |
| 2011-02-07 8:33 AM in reply to: #3342639 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run Mr. October - 2011-02-07 9:25 AM TriMyBest - 2011-02-05 4:55 PM I think that depends on what you call a long run. That's fine if you're only running 1-1.5 hours, but if it's 2-3 hours, that isn't enough for a lot of people. Exactly! 1-1.5 hours I don't need anything but water assuming I ate some reasonable fuel before starting. But 2-3 hours . . I don't care who you are or what you are doing your body needs fuel to sustain the effort of a long training run. I typically figure on about 1 gel/hour for training runs. Be sure to drink water after the gel. Really? I've done two hours with nothing, and finished fine. |
| 2011-02-07 8:54 AM in reply to: #3340781 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run TriMyBest - 2011-02-05 5:55 PM I think that depends on what you call a long run. That's fine if you're only running 1-1.5 hours, but if it's 2-3 hours, that isn't enough for a lot of people. You can definitely exercise for longer than 1-1.5 hours without consuming any fuel during exercise. The typical human body has enough stored glycogen for ~90 minutes of vigourous exercise; at this level, the body is burning a fairly high percentage of carbs. However, if the athlete instead exercsises at an easy or moderate intensity, the fuel utilization will shift (less carb more fat) and the absolute energy cost will decrease so the time this glycogen will last can be increased dramatically. Shane |
| 2011-02-07 9:02 AM in reply to: #3342654 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run Scout7 - 2011-02-07 7:33 AM Mr. October - 2011-02-07 9:25 AM Really? I've done two hours with nothing, and finished fine.TriMyBest - 2011-02-05 4:55 PM I think that depends on what you call a long run. That's fine if you're only running 1-1.5 hours, but if it's 2-3 hours, that isn't enough for a lot of people. Exactly! 1-1.5 hours I don't need anything but water assuming I ate some reasonable fuel before starting. But 2-3 hours . . I don't care who you are or what you are doing your body needs fuel to sustain the effort of a long training run. I typically figure on about 1 gel/hour for training runs. Be sure to drink water after the gel. Me too! I've done runs of 2+ hours many times with nothing at all. It really sounds like the OPs problem is fitness and pacing related. I recall having similar difficulties during training for my first marathon several years back. I also recall having the same problems even when adding fuel during a run. I would still slow at the end because I went out too hard, but in addition to the slowing I would also feel bloated from the fuel. Once I learned how to pace properly and gained the fitness through the hard work of putting in the miles, I was able to have lots of runs where the last few miles were the fastest - often at race pace. To me, that was a key for marathon training. Anyone can start a run or race strongly, but finishing strongly takes lots of hard work. IMO one of the goals of the long runs is to establish endurance fitness in a manner that allows quick recovery, but adding some fast miles at the end to learn how to run fast on tired legs. |
| 2011-02-07 9:16 AM in reply to: #3342647 |
Champion 10020 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run I am surprised by the number of people who can easily do this length/time run without needing any extra fuel. I am sure there are many factors involved, at least psychological, but I would never even consider this. Do you also not take any nutrition during a race until a few hours in? I view all long runs partly as an opportunity to practice my nutrition for whatever I am training for. I prefer to start taking gels if I will be running about 70 minutes or more. I would start around 30-40 mins and then take one every 30-45 thereafter. 30 if it's the middle of a hot summer day, 45 if it's a nice cool winter run. Everything else, somewhere in between when convenient. This is to ward away a general feeling of fatigue, spaciness, etc. and to avoid being a wet dishrag at the end of my run, which can ruin my day. Tired legs can happen for a lot of reasons. And on some days, no amount of gel will ward away tired legs. In fact, my legs are often tired at the end of a long run. I attribute this (for me) to poor pacing and body weight/fatigue and not enough consistent mileage. |
| 2011-02-07 9:30 AM in reply to: #3342734 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Fueling for long training run BikerGrrrl - 2011-02-07 10:16 AM I am surprised by the number of people who can easily do this length/time run without needing any extra fuel. I am sure there are many factors involved, at least psychological, but I would never even consider this. Do you also not take any nutrition during a race until a few hours in? I view all long runs partly as an opportunity to practice my nutrition for whatever I am training for. I prefer to start taking gels if I will be running about 70 minutes or more. I would start around 30-40 mins and then take one every 30-45 thereafter. 30 if it's the middle of a hot summer day, 45 if it's a nice cool winter run. Everything else, somewhere in between when convenient. This is to ward away a general feeling of fatigue, spaciness, etc. and to avoid being a wet dishrag at the end of my run, which can ruin my day. Tired legs can happen for a lot of reasons. And on some days, no amount of gel will ward away tired legs. In fact, my legs are often tired at the end of a long run. I attribute this (for me) to poor pacing and body weight/fatigue and not enough consistent mileage. In races, I take it when it's available. The difference there is that I am running at a much higher effort level in a race than I am on the majority of my training runs. However, I have done races of 20K and 30K that had either no nutrition on the course (the 20k had water, and only one water stop at the turnaround point), or minimal stops (the 30K had maybe 2 stops on a 15K loop). Fading at the end of a run is seldom a nutrition issue, and much more likely to be either a fitness or pacing issue. I have done both, and I can always tell when the problem is nutritional versus pacing. Normally, if I start to feel spaced out and fuzzy-headed in the beginning or middle of a run, it's nutrition. Fading at the end is pretty much always pacing/fitness. This is how I have practiced for as long as I can remember, so it's just natural to me. When people talk about taking gels every 30 minutes, I can't imagine doing that, as I would be feeling sick. Plus, I dislike gels and avoid them at all costs. |
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