"Easy" Electrical work
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![]() | ![]() I'm doing some updates to my kitchen and want to replace some outdated track lighting in my loft. I like the look of the monorail type and will run it from beam to beam which is about 25 feet I think still need to measure. I think I need some transformer box to go to LED lights? Anyway, is this something a complete moron (me) could do? Something like this: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/cable-lighting-kits/eurofase-lighti... http://www.houzz.com/photos/317755/Modern-Cabin-modern-kitchen-burl... Or best to just hire someone to make sure I don't zap myself or burn down the building. If so, ball park figure for a guy to come install (Urban pricing - Chicago). I would probably add another 25 foot section to the main living area to replace that outdated lighting as well. Any good resources to educate myself would be appreciated as well. thx |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() If you're not sure of your handyman skills, or you're not Ok with the idea of possibly making a mess of it, then you should probably call in a professional to do it. It's not like plumbing where screwing it up just makes things wet & messy... you can have a VERY bad day with electricity.
That said, if you ARE ok with making mistakes, then just make sure you turn the power off AT THE BREAKER and have at it. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Depending on what exactly you get, it shouldn't be that hard. The transformer is typically integral into the "base" of the track so when you wire it, you bring your standard wires into the primary side and the lower voltage secondary side should all be pre-wired so you don't have to do anything. It's important to make sure you only do what the manufacturer recomends for the voltage implications though. If you have too many heads, or too much track you might run into some voltage drop issues.
Short FAQ that may or may not be helpful
http://www.atgstores.com/articles/Low-Voltage-Track-Lighting-Pendants-FAQs_a532.html |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Another tip, the link you provided has (5) 20W MR16 lamps, make sure you buy only 20W. If you buy 35W or 50W they will cause problems. You will notice the lights kind of flickering and possibly shutting off because the transformer cannot power more than 105W in this case. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I am lucky in that my Father in law is a licensed master electrician so we have him to do any of that. If we did not I would hire someone to do it. I do my own plumbing and other work because for the most part those could make a mess but not likely destroy your home (though I have heard stories!) electrical work done wrong could hurt not just the person installing it but could lead to electrical fires and other issues so I always have a pro do electrical work. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My FIL has a good grasp of electical knowledge....and I have access to elctrical engineers to ask questions. That being said, cutting the breaker off is the best first step. Having a simple and elementry grasp of how wire/electricity works is the next best step. (white to white, black to black, ground....) I'd suggest getting some other guys together for moral support and help. 2-4 heads and talking out things are better than trying to talk yourself through it. Lastly.....utilize the internet to look things up. There are plenty of websites, including Lowes, HD, DIY network, etc that have lots of step by step instructions dumbed down and also pictures for the DIY'er. But.....stay away from electrician message boards and DIY message boards. It's like going into Tri-Talk asking if flip turns or crossfit is benefiical or which bike/cassette is better. You'll get all sorts of answers and everyone else is wrong except for the last guy who posts. ![]() |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bradleyd3 - 2013-02-27 2:15 PM My FIL has a good grasp of electical knowledge....and I have access to elctrical engineers to ask questions. That being said, cutting the breaker off is the best first step. Having a simple and elementry grasp of how wire/electricity works is the next best step. (white to white, black to black, ground....) I'd suggest getting some other guys together for moral support and help. 2-4 heads and talking out things are better than trying to talk yourself through it. Lastly.....utilize the internet to look things up. There are plenty of websites, including Lowes, HD, DIY network, etc that have lots of step by step instructions dumbed down and also pictures for the DIY'er. But.....stay away from electrician message boards and DIY message boards. It's like going into Tri-Talk asking if flip turns or crossfit is benefiical or which bike/cassette is better. You'll get all sorts of answers and everyone else is wrong except for the last guy who posts. ![]() Just hold off on the beer until you're done... Mark |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() The other nice thing about having helpers is that electrical work seems to always involve holding something above your head for an extended time. You need someone to trade off with. And, it bears repeating, turn off the breaker... |
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![]() | ![]() I think I'm gong to give it a shot, at a minimum hang the cabling and then if I freak out call someone in. I'll wear my wetsuit and rubber gloves just in case even when shutting off the breaker thx all |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() running2far - 2013-02-27 2:16 PM I think I'm gong to give it a shot, at a minimum hang the cabling and then if I freak out call someone in. I'll wear my wetsuit and rubber gloves just in case even when shutting off the breaker thx all 110 will just toss your hand back and scare ya a bit.....like sticking a knife in a socket. Unless you have an underlying heart condition then it may cause cadiac arrest....or cause you to void your bowels....97% of the time though....you should be okay. You could always just make sure the switch is in the off position and not worry about the breaker, which is what I did this past weekend when replacing a light and hanging a fan.....just so I didn't have to keep walking up and down stairs to get to the breaker to test the new fan. Beer is a good idea after the project is done.....but drinking during the electrial job adds a componet of excitment to the job...... Best of luck. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() There should not be anything difficult about the job. Use a meter to test the circuit if you are afraid the breaker may get turned back on, or if you are afraid the switch will be turned on by someone else. Very simple job to do. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() When I was little I wondered if the lamp socket worked if there was no bulb in it. It does. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Those can be incredibly easy to install. You've got two options - a plug in transformer (super, super easy) and a hardwire transformer (a bit harder. If you can use a screwdriver, you can install a plug in version. If you want to hardwire, it's still pretty easy - tap into a lighting circuit that still has space, wire into an existing switch, done. BUT if you've never fished wire, or wired a switch, I'd hire someone. On the other hand, it's low voltage, and not complex, and a good learning opportunity. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() It shouldn't be too bad to *replace* lights assuming the switches and wiring are basically where you want them. Kill the power. Test that you've killed the power. Remove the old fixture (pay attention to black-white-bare connections). Install the new lighting using the same (black-white-bare connections). If you're connecting a wire to a screw, make a little hook I the end of the wire and hook it around the screw in the same direction to *tighten* the screw. If you haven't, go ahead and spend $15 for a non-contacting voltage detector. You can use it to test that the lines are alive/dead before you start. It can also be used to test for voltage on a switch/fixture in case you didn't get the neutral and ground connected. You can do 90% of the work yourself and hire an electrician to come check things over if you're not 100% confident in your own abilities. If you do this, you need to leave the connections exposed until he's given you the thumbs up. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() McFuzz - 2013-02-26 5:37 PM If you're connecting a wire to a screw, make a little hook I the end of the wire and hook it around the screw in the same direction to *tighten* the screw.
The brass screw is for the black wire. The shiny(or aluminum or galvanized) screw is for the white wire. The green screw is for the bare wire. FYI. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bradleyd3 - 2013-02-27 1:15 PM My FIL has a good grasp of electical knowledge....and I have access to elctrical engineers to ask questions. Just so you know electrical engineers =/= electricians! (spoken by the holder of BSEE and MSEE sheepskins) Thanks Moondawg, I knew there is convention to the screw materials, but didn't know it off the top of my head and didn't want to get it wrong. Edited by McFuzz 2013-02-28 6:52 AM |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() McFuzz - 2013-02-27 7:49 AM bradleyd3 - 2013-02-27 1:15 PM My FIL has a good grasp of electical knowledge....and I have access to elctrical engineers to ask questions. Just so you know electrical engineers =/= electricians! (spoken by the holder of BSEE and MSEE sheepskins) Thanks Moondawg, I knew there is convention to the screw materials, but didn't know it off the top of my head and didn't want to get it wrong. Agreed on asking EE's to do electrical work! haha! (BSEE here. I wired my house. 5 years, still standing.) |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() moondawg14 - 2013-02-28 7:00 AM McFuzz - 2013-02-27 7:49 AM bradleyd3 - 2013-02-27 1:15 PM My FIL has a good grasp of electical knowledge....and I have access to elctrical engineers to ask questions. Just so you know electrical engineers =/= electricians! (spoken by the holder of BSEE and MSEE sheepskins) Thanks Moondawg, I knew there is convention to the screw materials, but didn't know it off the top of my head and didn't want to get it wrong. Agreed on asking EE's to do electrical work! haha! (BSEE here. I wired my house. 5 years, still standing.) I have known a few EE's that I wouldn't let them hold the screwdriver, let alone actually do the electrical work |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bradleyd3 - 2013-02-27 3:25 PM running2far - 2013-02-27 2:16 PM I think I'm gong to give it a shot, at a minimum hang the cabling and then if I freak out call someone in. I'll wear my wetsuit and rubber gloves just in case even when shutting off the breaker thx all 110 will just toss your hand back and scare ya a bit.....like sticking a knife in a socket. Unless you have an underlying heart condition then it may cause cadiac arrest....or cause you to void your bowels....97% of the time though....you should be okay. You could always just make sure the switch is in the off position and not worry about the breaker, which is what I did this past weekend when replacing a light and hanging a fan.....just so I didn't have to keep walking up and down stairs to get to the breaker to test the new fan. Beer is a good idea after the project is done.....but drinking during the electrial job adds a componet of excitment to the job...... Best of luck. Just a comment about the lethality of 110 V, it depends on the ground you make. I have a picture of my father clamping onto 1000 KV line from an insulated line truck. He just got a little capacitive surge. However, if you are standing in water or holding onto a water pipe when you touch 110, the current flows freely through your body and it can most certainly kill you. If you are standing with rubber sole running shoes on a wood floor, it will zing you because less current flows through you. One other thing about 110, if your hand is around the conductor, you may not be able to pull it away. You hand will be convulsively gripped around the wire because the current interferes with your nerve stimulus. This can happen if you are only lightly grounded. It can also be lethal.
That being said, I have seen a friend of mine with BSEE, MSEE, and electrician's license do a job like the track lighting on a hot circuit. He uses screwdrivers and needlenose pliers with insulated handles, never cuts a hot and neutral wire at the same time, and he is very good at manipulating wire without touching anything hot. The reason for doing this is that, when you work alone, it is a lot of trouble running up and down stairs between the circuit and breaker box to figure out which circuit in the breaker box is the one you want to de-energize. Plus, he says it is safer to treat every wire as energized. My advice, turn off the circuit, use a tester to test the circuit before you work on it, treat every wire as if it is hot, white to white, and black to black. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bradleyd3 - 2013-02-27 2:25 PM You could always just make sure the switch is in the off position and not worry about the breaker, which is what I did this past weekend when replacing a light and hanging a fan.....just so I didn't have to keep walking up and down stairs to get to the breaker to test the new fan.
I would recommend against doing this, you never know if a hack had used a switched neutral and you would unknowingly be working live. Further, if the fan was set up so that the fan could be run with out having the light on the circuit would always be hot. Turning off the breaker is a minor inconvenience compared to the possibility of getting a shock, falling off a ladder as a result etc. Edited by DaveL 2013-02-28 1:20 PM |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm dropping 12/2 down a wall this weekend, pigtailing to an outlet to add another outlet above my cabinets to run lights on top and undercabinet too. I'll cut the breaker then..... If you don't hear from me by Tuesday, check the obits in the McKinney Courier Gazzette. |
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Sensei ![]() | ![]() DaveL - 2013-02-28 11:06 AM bradleyd3 - 2013-02-27 2:25 P You could always just make sure the switch is in the off position and not worry about the breaker, which is what I did this past weekend when replacing a light and hanging a fan.....just so I didn't have to keep walking up and down stairs to get to the breaker to test the new fan.
I would recommend against doing this, you never know if a hack had used a switched neutral and you would unknowingly be working live. Further, if the fan was set up so that the fan could be run with out having the light on the circuit would always be hot. Turning off the breaker is a minor inconvenience compared to the possibility of getting a shock, falling off a ladder as a result etc. Agreed x100... Unless you are dead certain (almost no pun intended) that the breaker shuts off the circuit you are working on shuts it off. it may even be worth it to shut off power to the whole house. Yep, a lot will say that's overkill, but I have shut power down to my dining room, only to find the socket I was working on in the living room was fed off the kitchen circuit. Invest in a simple tester as well. Just to see if it's hot before working on it. I'm handy around the house and have done all kinds of improvements. But ONE thing I am extremely carefull, almost paranoid about, is power - especially when sticking metal tools around. I use the proper protective equipment. Good shoes, gloves, rubber/plastic handled tools. Edited by Kido 2013-02-28 2:01 PM |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bradleyd3 - 2013-02-28 1:53 PM I'm dropping 12/2 down a wall this weekend, pigtailing to an outlet to add another outlet above my cabinets to run lights on top and undercabinet too. I'll cut the breaker then..... If you don't hear from me by Tuesday, check the obits in the McKinney Courier Gazzette.
dibs on the bike... you have a nice bike right??
Good luck on the project, be safe, Im sure it will turn out great. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() DaveL - 2013-02-28 2:14 PM bradleyd3 - 2013-02-28 1:53 PM I'm dropping 12/2 down a wall this weekend, pigtailing to an outlet to add another outlet above my cabinets to run lights on top and undercabinet too. I'll cut the breaker then..... If you don't hear from me by Tuesday, check the obits in the McKinney Courier Gazzette.
dibs on the bike... you have a nice bike right??
Good luck on the project, be safe, Im sure it will turn out great. Sorry......Bike is headed to the WTC hall of fame for slowest bike on record...... I was going to daisychain the outlets but something about city code, fire hazard, and some pesky 2011 NEC thingy about "safety"...... My first thought was just to do this....but apparently it's frowned upon: (against code.jpg) Attachments ---------------- against code.jpg (56KB - 2 downloads) |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bradleyd3 - 2013-02-28 1:24 PM DaveL - 2013-02-28 2:14 PM Sorry......Bike is headed to the WTC hall of fame for slowest bike on record...... I was going to daisychain the outlets but something about city code, fire hazard, and some pesky 2011 NEC thingy about "safety"...... My first thought was just to do this....but apparently it's frowned upon: bradleyd3 - 2013-02-28 1:53 PM I'm dropping 12/2 down a wall this weekend, pigtailing to an outlet to add another outlet above my cabinets to run lights on top and undercabinet too. I'll cut the breaker then..... If you don't hear from me by Tuesday, check the obits in the McKinney Courier Gazzette.
dibs on the bike... you have a nice bike right??
Good luck on the project, be safe, Im sure it will turn out great.
Is that my garage? How did you get in there.
OP, if you have an old house, definitely take extra care. I have the old knobs left over from the knob and tube days, half of my outlets don't have grounds and the other half do. Fun. |
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