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2013-03-15 6:24 AM

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Subject: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says


2013-03-15 10:15 AM
in reply to: #4660640

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Master
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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
I've heard of some strange toppings, but why would you want those on your pizza?
2013-03-15 10:33 AM
in reply to: #4660973

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
SevenZulu - 2013-03-15 11:15 AM

I've heard of some strange toppings, but why would you want those on your pizza?


I could think of a few reasons.
2013-03-15 10:38 AM
in reply to: #4661009

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says

Good news!

This administration is attacking both the 1st and 2nd amendments. It's good to know that our system of checks and balances is working.

2013-03-15 10:40 AM
in reply to: #4661016

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
dontracy - 2013-03-15 11:38 AM

Good news!

This administration is attacking both the 1st and 2nd amendments. It's good to know that our system of checks and balances is working.



Yeah, personally I believe this to be an almost pure 1st amendment issue.

2013-03-15 10:42 AM
in reply to: #4660640

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Master
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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
Never liked Dominos.  Now I have another reason to not order from them.


2013-03-15 10:44 AM
in reply to: #4661019

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says

DanielG -  Yeah, personally I believe this to be an almost pure 1st amendment issue.

Right. It was an attack on religious liberty.

Regardless of how someone might think about contraception, I hope everyone can get behind the protection of religious liberty.

2013-03-15 11:28 AM
in reply to: #4661024

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Master
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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says

ejshowers - 2013-03-15 11:42 AM Never liked Dominos.  Now I have another reason to not order from them.

Why because they won't violate their religious beliefs?

The're not saying that their employee's can't use contraception, just that they don't want to subsidize it.

2013-03-15 11:35 AM
in reply to: #4660640

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says

It's interesting that as a society we have agreed that the Constitutional Right of privacy and the Right of Freedom to exercise religion allows an individual to refuse life saving medical treatments like blood transfusions and the state cannot compel such procedures, however there are those that now say that the government can compel individuals or companies to provide contraception.

It just seems odd to me.  Your right to privacy and right to freely exercise your religion protects your right to refuse medical procedures and die, but it doesn't protect your right against being forced to provide contraception?  Odd to me....

2013-03-15 11:44 AM
in reply to: #4661102

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
Brock Samson - 2013-03-15 9:35 AM

It's interesting that as a society we have agreed that the Constitutional Right of privacy and the Right of Freedom to exercise religion allows an individual to refuse life saving medical treatments like blood transfusions and the state cannot compel such procedures, however there are those that now say that the government can compel individuals or companies to provide contraception.

It just seems odd to me.  Your right to privacy and right to freely exercise your religion protects your right to refuse medical procedures and die, but it doesn't protect your right against being forced to provide contraception?  Odd to me....

To me it comes down to the individual versus the group/company. Each individual should have the right to choose if they want to use the contraception but if the option is not even covered by your insurance then that ability to choose is not there. The owners religious beliefs should not play a part in what he offers his employees as far as insurance goes, especially if those employees contribute part of their pay to their insurance premiums. This does not mean I agree, or disagree, with the ACA mandate for employers to provide it but I can see the logic from the government side of things.

2013-03-15 11:45 AM
in reply to: #4660640

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says

Question to the 1st Amendment folks:

If you own a business that employs people according to federal law, which says you can't discriminate against race, religion, etc. etc.  

 

What makes it okay to force your religious beliefs on those employees about contraception?

By not providing contraception to employees through their health benefits you are forcing them to follow your beliefs and violating their 1st amendment rights.  Is that not the case here or is there some argument I am missing?

Chris.



2013-03-15 11:46 AM
in reply to: #4661118

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
bel83 - 2013-03-15 12:44 PM
Brock Samson - 2013-03-15 9:35 AM

It's interesting that as a society we have agreed that the Constitutional Right of privacy and the Right of Freedom to exercise religion allows an individual to refuse life saving medical treatments like blood transfusions and the state cannot compel such procedures, however there are those that now say that the government can compel individuals or companies to provide contraception.

It just seems odd to me.  Your right to privacy and right to freely exercise your religion protects your right to refuse medical procedures and die, but it doesn't protect your right against being forced to provide contraception?  Odd to me....

To me it comes down to the individual versus the group/company. Each individual should have the right to choose if they want to use the contraception but if the option is not even covered by your insurance then that ability to choose is not there. The owners religious beliefs should not play a part in what he offers his employees as far as insurance goes, especially if those employees contribute part of their pay to their insurance premiums. This does not mean I agree, or disagree, with the ACA mandate for employers to provide it but I can see the logic from the government side of things.

Hmmm that is odd I have managed to to use contraception for most of my adult life without it being part of any health insurance. No one ever told me I did not have that option

2013-03-15 11:48 AM
in reply to: #4661121

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
tolefanjh - 2013-03-15 12:45 PM

Question to the 1st Amendment folks:

If you own a business that employs people according to federal law, which says you can't discriminate against race, religion, etc. etc.  

 

What makes it okay to force your religious beliefs on those employees about contraception?

By not providing contraception to employees through their health benefits you are forcing them to follow your beliefs and violating their 1st amendment rights.  Is that not the case here or is there some argument I am missing?

Chris.

How is that forcing them to have your religious beliefs?  Until a few years ago, I had never worked for an employer with a medical plan that covered birth control.  I never felt like I was having someone else's religion forced on me, however...

also...the first amendment does not protect my right to BC pills.  that would be a weird thing to put in there...



Edited by mehaner 2013-03-15 11:57 AM
2013-03-15 11:48 AM
in reply to: #4661121

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
tolefanjh - 2013-03-15 12:45 PM

Question to the 1st Amendment folks:

If you own a business that employs people according to federal law, which says you can't discriminate against race, religion, etc. etc.  

 

What makes it okay to force your religious beliefs on those employees about contraception?

By not providing contraception to employees through their health benefits you are forcing them to follow your beliefs and violating their 1st amendment rights.  Is that not the case here or is there some argument I am missing?

Chris.



The business is not a government. It cannot, by definition, violate their 1st amendment rights.

Re-read the 1st amendment.

2013-03-15 11:49 AM
in reply to: #4661121

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
tolefanjh - 2013-03-15 12:45 PM

Question to the 1st Amendment folks:

If you own a business that employs people according to federal law, which says you can't discriminate against race, religion, etc. etc.  



This has nothing to do with discrimination.

2013-03-15 11:52 AM
in reply to: #4661141

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
They should just get rid of Dominoes.


2013-03-15 11:54 AM
in reply to: #4661121

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says

tolefanjh - By not providing contraception to employees through their health benefits you are forcing them to follow your beliefs and violating their 1st amendment rights.  Is that not the case here or is there some argument I am missing?

Employees of Dominos Pizza are free to use contraception.

2013-03-15 11:56 AM
in reply to: #4661157

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
dontracy - 2013-03-15 12:54 PM

tolefanjh - By not providing contraception to employees through their health benefits you are forcing them to follow your beliefs and violating their 1st amendment rights.  Is that not the case here or is there some argument I am missing?

Employees of Dominos Pizza are free to use contraception.

And if the article was about the employees of Domino's Pizza, that would be relevant. 

2013-03-15 11:59 AM
in reply to: #4661164

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says

tealeaf - And if the article was about the employees of Domino's Pizza, that would be relevant. 

Oops!

Thanks for the correction. 

Tom's a good guy and deeply rooted in his faith.  He shouldn't have to pay for any of his employees contraception, and apparently now won't have to.

2013-03-15 11:59 AM
in reply to: #4661164

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
tealeaf - 2013-03-15 12:56 PM

dontracy - 2013-03-15 12:54 PM

tolefanjh - By not providing contraception to employees through their health benefits you are forcing them to follow your beliefs and violating their 1st amendment rights.  Is that not the case here or is there some argument I am missing?

Employees of Dominos Pizza are free to use contraception.

And if the article was about the employees of Domino's Pizza, that would be relevant. 



In all honesty, who the guy/corporation is an employer of is irrelevant entirely for the topic at hand.

2013-03-15 12:05 PM
in reply to: #4661175

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says

Obama is giving it out for free anyway for the wife.  We haven't paid for over a year.

 

(yes, pills vs condoms - not sure if that's the same or different in this discussion.  I guess it depends on the thread and the mood is to grossly generalizing or splitting hairs - it's hard to tell.)

Some threads will say contraception is contraception, no matter what.  Other threads will say that if the condom is ribbed, it's not a condom



2013-03-15 12:05 PM
in reply to: #4661141

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Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
DanielG - 2013-03-15 11:49 AM
tolefanjh - 2013-03-15 12:45 PM

Question to the 1st Amendment folks:

If you own a business that employs people according to federal law, which says you can't discriminate against race, religion, etc. etc.  

This has nothing to do with discrimination.

Unless the religion required the use of contraception.[\sarc]

2013-03-15 12:06 PM
in reply to: #4661182

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
Kido - 2013-03-15 1:05 PM

Obama is giving it out for free anyway for the wife.  We haven't paid for over a year.

 

(yes, pills vs condoms - not sure if that's the same or different in this discussion.  I guess it depends on the thread and the mood is to grossly generalizing or splitting hairs - it's hard to tell.)

Some threads will say contraception is contraception, no matter what.  Other threads will say that if the condom is ribbed, it's not a condom



Not talking about Obama or any society give away.

Talking purely about employer paid or partially paid health care.

2013-03-15 12:09 PM
in reply to: #4661184

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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
GomesBolt - 2013-03-15 1:05 PM

DanielG - 2013-03-15 11:49 AM
tolefanjh - 2013-03-15 12:45 PM

Question to the 1st Amendment folks:

If you own a business that employs people according to federal law, which says you can't discriminate against race, religion, etc. etc.  

This has nothing to do with discrimination.

Unless the religion required the use of contraception.[\sarc]



Not even then. The person was still hired. The business is not saying you cannot practice, in this case take/use your contraceptive. The first amendment is that CONGRESS (and, by 14th amendment, states) cannot pass any law restricting free exercise of religion. The business is not congress nor is it a governmental entity. That means it cannot violate your 1st amendment.

2013-03-15 12:11 PM
in reply to: #4660640

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Feds can't force Domino's founder to offer contraceptives, judge says
Would you hold the same view if his position were not to cover blood transfusions? There are religion(s) that object to those.
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