Supreme Court upholds Michigan’s ban on racial preferences in university admissions

What part don't you agree with?  Eliminating merit scholarships or pumping up need-based aid or both?

Merit-based scholarships will always exist somewhere--competitive kids can apply to those schools.  Increasing need-based financial aid doesn't seem like an inherently bad idea to me.  Though I would also argue that unless you're majoring in engineering *just* an undergrad degree isn't going to do much for you anyway.  For a lot of kids who would struggle in undergrad and take on onerous debt to get through college, getting started in a trade or in a plant would be a good career choice and financial decision.

FWIW, I agree completely with all of jmk's points on affirmative action.

Merit based scholarships and financial aid are definitely treated differently. My youngest is an incoming freshman this year. He received a $5k scholarship for academic achievement, and a $6k college grant. Once they went through our financials, guess what happened to the grant? Gone due to 'lack of demonstrated need.'

It would have been nice to have the money, but this is totally fair. In reality, if that money enables some equally talented kid to go to college, then it is a better use of the money. The key there is that the ability is evaluated separately from the need. To bring a kid into college who, academically, shouldn't be there is just setting them up for failure. The universities are aware of this problem.

One professor where I'm affiliated has a program to assess the skill levels of inner city students applying to the college, and determine what the deficiencies in education are that prevent them from succeeding. They then take a year of prep classes which, upon successful completion, guarantees them admission and financial support.

FTFY.

Or perhaps, *gasp* they actually want to BE diverse, and decide to hold back money for other qualified students.   

Either way, you are correct, it's a good ruling.  States should be allowed to decide how to include people in their organizations.

It depends on how you define the system.

Let's say 80% of college students are white, And 20% are not .   And 25% of college students are "poor"

And let's say 80% of poor people are "not white", and 20% are white.

And we give scholarships to ALL of the poor people.

And then we look at the college students and say:  OMG!  only 5% of white college students got financial aid, but 20% of "not white" students got financial aid!  "Not white" students only make up 20% of the student body, but they got 80% of the aid!

And then we say:  That's not fair! "not white" kids got way more help than white kids!

But in reality, ALL of the poor kids got help.  And hopefully, it's a " virtuous cycle,"  Which means in the next generation, only 75% of the poor kids are "not white" and eventually, the ratio of  white to "not white" in the poor population will match the ratio in the "not poor" population. 

So, my argument is that it's only disproportionate when we consider race. When we consider the "real problem," the proportion is correct:  ALL poor kids get help.    

I can't believe I'm typing this, but "I agree completely"  ;-)

I've always felt that AA based simply on ethnicity was unfair because a poor white kid growing up in a rough hood is the same as a poor black kid in my mind.  They both have most of the same socioeconomic challenges to overcome in life.

Unfortunately, this is not the case and so your argument fails.  Whites make up almost 50% of those at the poverty level in the US.  If you ONLY compare them against Blacks, they are double the # (not the %, the #).  So again, if you go just based on lower socio-economic levels then you will still have a higher percentage of whites than the other because just by sheer #'s they make up a higher % than the rest.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with AA or not.  It is not black and white.  It is not easy.  I will say one thing, though, a University has to look at more than just the merit of the student.  It is more beneficial for the University to increase its diversity just as much as it is to have high merit students.  Mainly because it exposes the student to real world diversity.  

So, I grew up in a trailer park poor as dirt and probably half of my friends where white and half were minorities.

You're saying that I magically didn't have to deal with the same harassment, bullying, segregation, humiliation, that they did simply because I'm white and they're not?

I would like to respectfully inform you that you're incorrect.  My life sucked just as bad as theirs did and I had a LOT to overcome.

FTFY

I would caution you that not all black people feel that way.....that's not an opinion, that's a fact.  That's a pretty broad stroke you're painting with.

Fixed it again.

But what you described had nothing to do with admission.  Your daughter got accepted, she just wasn't offered a full ride. 

Dude....there are plenjty of black people who don't think they have it near as hard as some white people.  There are also plenty of black people who don't feel humiliated,. harassed, bullied, or segregated, 

This gets old.

Is there racisim?  Sure there is.  But I'm sorry, you are discounting a very large percentage of black people who don't want you to define how they feel, and it's wrong to do that.   I'll listen all day to black people relating their lilfe experiences......and I do....but I won't spend a second listening to anyone who is not black trying to tell me what black people deal wtih.  It's ridiculous.

Man, what kind of world do you live in Tony?  I'm not ignorant enough to say that racism and prejudice doesn't exist because it does, but what you describe is the exception and not the rule in the world i live in.  If anything, I find your statement to be rather prejudicial and demeaning to black people.

lmao - I showed this thread to one of the guys I work with who happens to be black since he's sitting in the car next to me..  He hasn't stopped cursing and calling 2tony names yet. HAHAHAHAHA!!!