Ironman Lake Placid : Official Thread (Page 103)

Who needs pins?  I'm not sure if it is Dream Chaser or one of you other masters of IMLP but I'm sure someone has a doll for me and they have left the head of it in a puddle or accidently dunked it in a cup of old coffee. My brain is mush, I'm a walking zombie lately as I try to get the training done and keep up with all of the "end of school year" activities for the kids.  I am not afraid of not finishing, I'm afraid of riding my bike the wrong way or turning right when the swim markers call for a left turn.  You'll know me at the race -- I ride a black Kuota with gray trim and I'll be grinding up the Keene descent.

On the upside, today at work I took 20 minutes and did some retail IM therapy.  I bought boxes of Gu, Powerbars and a new pair of shoes.  So far, I have swum farther in 2012 than all of 2011 and I've run in 2012 more than 70 percent of my 2011 total.

On second thought, you guys don't need a doll for me.  I'm an IM rookie and will be learning the whole day long -- learning, not competitively racing.

Kinda makes me feel better to know that everyone else is going through this too.  After a thoroughly disappointing doctors visit today, I was told 95% chance I have a stress fracture, just waiting on the MRI to confirm at this point.  I guess there will be tons of aqua jogging in my near future...

The only other thing I'll add - if you read that article I quoted before from Andrew Coggan - the last table shows that everything you get from Z2 work, you get from Z4 as well (and in some cases, more).  Plasma, mitochondria, increasing LT, capillarization, increased VO2max, etc.  Granted, you cannot maintain Z4 work for days in a row, and as it is shorter duration, it could certainly pale in comparison in terms of time spent vs Z2.  My main contention was the idea that Z4 work was pointless in something aerobic such as an IM, yet a lot of research indicates otherwise.  But that goes back to the point you made before, where Z4 is still aerobic.  Obviously the race itself will be in Z2, and there is benefit in LSD work to build up the endurance from a physical point of view.

I'm right there with you.  Though if I'm trying to go up the Keene decent then someone just throw a water bottle at me or something.  My legs are pretty cranky now, and all I can think about is LP.  I look at my work day and think how many Gu's and Chomps I'll be eating and at what times.  I don't even dry myself when i get out of the shower so I can practice putting on wet clothing.  My sink has nothing but empty water bottles in it.  I've worn my running shoes to work twice this week without even thinking about it.  I'm just trying to stay on target....... stay on target.........

I'm going to Agree to Disagree with you guys.  Coggan is just one study, and I've seen studies that prove Smoking Cigarettes Improves Lung Function.  Studies aren't Gospel.

When I do VO2Max work for marathon training, or Intervals on the Trainer, I'm using my Anaerobic system predominantly for the entire period of time - well over 2 minutes plus.  My RPE, HR, and the pain and noises comig out of my body tell me so.  But my HR is the most factual piece of evidence.  During interval work my HR never drops down from Zone 4 to Zone 2, unless I bonk.   

For endurance long-course (the marathon and Ironman especially) intervals should be the smallest percentage of your training.  In the Fink plan during the BUILD period for the "Competitive Program" he has Z4 as a total of 8% of all Running and Cycling volume.  So 92% of the training is non-Z4 for the BUILD.  And for the "Competitive Program" Peak Period his Z4 total is 7% for running and cycling.  I believe the vast-vast majority of Triathlon Coaches follow a simialr philosophy when coaching AG'ers for Ironman. 

Brian Sell qualified for the Olympic Marathon at the trials after he peaked at 140 miles for the week.  All volume that included almost no intervals.

If you want to PR a 5k road race, you don't run faster in training to run faster in the race; you carefully increase your Aerobic volume.  When you run volume the body makes physiological changes that cannot be accomplished any other way.  When you reach certain critical volume levels the body naturally becomes more efficient with technique and metabolic processes that both translate into speed on Race Day. 

Olympians who race the 1-mile distance do 18 mile training runs. 

I know a few atheletes who hate training anything longer than 30 mins of either S/B/R and all they do is High Intensity -- and not to be mean -- but they all finish back of the pack consistently at even Sprints and Olympic distance. 

High Intensity training is of minimal value for the average AG'er in Ironman training and the Risks outweigh the rewards; and the rewards are grossly inflated in many studies.  

To be clear we're not talking Lactate Threshold; we're talking Intervals and High Intensity.   

Wow, lots of activity since I last checked in...For the record, you are all right-to a degree, but there seems to be a bit of confusion about aerobic vs anaerobic, z4/5 etc.

I'm not going to reiterate training methods or periodization, multipace training etc. Let's just clarify the difference between aerobic and anaerobic.

It is best to think about how hard the muscles are working and compare that to their maximum efficiency of O2 extraction-or v02max. This can be measured or estimated in a number of ways. The easiest thing to do is run some races and use Daniel's or other's methods of estimating it.

The more important number for people training is their LT or the threshold at which we go from aerobic to anaerobic. This is the intensity that most can train at with the biggest benefit and least risk. Lots of volume training at lower intensity-like 70-80% takes lots of time and that's why BASE training is so prolonged. The bigger the base the further you can go later with multipace training.

Interval training is often done at over 100% vo2max and therefore is clearly anaerobic, but the aerobic system is stressed maximally and that will give some training benefit too. So to be clear, BOTH systems are being used, and the aerobic system is being used maximally and needs help as it becomes overwhelmed and the muscles go into oxygen deficit=anaerobic. The real problem is the risk that is associated with speed/intensity. It is difficult to define how much each of the systems contribute but frequently anaerobic stress is defined as accumulated oxygen deficit.

The three variables that can be controlled are: 1)intensity 2)duration 3) recovery. When interval training is done, it is done with short duration and long recovery initially and builds from there.

The take home points are still that BOTH systems are stressed with interval training. And the BEST training for endurance events is a steady, ever building volume of aerobic training.

Where is the sunlight vis a vis the swim course at 7.00 a.m. in late July?  Do you swim into the sun, is the sun already well above the treeline or is it on the horizon?  Do you swim back to shore into the sun?

RE: Mirrored goggles versus other colors.

I prefer non-mirrored goggles but wear them when the glare makes it next to impossible to site or avoid collisions.  Lately, I've been training in some very comfortable TYR goggles with yellow lens.

Remember, I'm the guy who doesn't want to turn right when the markers point us left.

hi Kent - the sun is up early and will be behind you and to the right when you line up for the swim start. It will be off to your left and a little in front of you on the return trip. I actually wore clear goggles and had zero problems from the sun last year, but I always wear clear no matter what, so YMMV. The lake placid swim course is fairly unique relative to most swim courses; it is straight with lots of buoys. You never really have to look too far forward up the course to sight, so I really found the sun to be a non-factor.

My only bit of advice is to remember that there are all kinds of ways to get to the destination: don't go second-guessing what you are doing, and for God's sake, STICK TO YOUR PLAN!!!

Safe training everyone.

Re: Intervals.

I have not done one Interval/High Intensity workout in months, not one.  As with many others, I struggled early on with injuries (they seem to be stabilized at this point ~ fingers crossed) and then have had some seriously stressful family issues over the past 6 or 8 months.  AND.......IM year four in a row.......I am spent.  I just don't have anything left to give.  I am lucky to get in the distance, but am just unable to do ANY of the high intensity stuff.  Every time I have tried I would either a) re-injure my foot or b) pay for it for days.

I don't even look at what the plan says anymore (intervals), I just do the prescribed time.  Anyone else in the same boat?

HI-HO HI-HO IT'S OFF TO PLACID I GO!

Friday: 2.4 mile swim, 45 minute ride (zone 2)

Saturday 45 minute run (zone 2), 2 loops on the bike, 30 minute brick run

Going to be a great weekend!

TankBoy - 2012-06-15 12:00 PM You guys are cracking me up with the discussion of training protocols - this seems like it would have been a more useful conversation to have back in October '11, not 5 weeks before LP! This is a sure sign that go-time is getting close...

My only bit of advice is to remember that there are all kinds of ways to get to the destination: don't go second-guessing what you are doing, and for God's sake, STICK TO YOUR PLAN!!!

Safe training everyone.

Agree 100%!!!  I'm like Seadocha,  I'm just trying to get out of the water in good shape, if I can do that then the rest of the day I think will go as planned.... well at least that is how I'm dreaming it up.  Is anybody wearing compression arm or calve sleeves, and if so are you wearing them under your wetsuit or putting them on in T1.

I'm doing the same thing.  I'm just putting in the time.  I haven't been doing the intervals since the beginning of June.  I'm just putting in solid efforts for the duration that is called for that day.  At this point I don't want to do anything to crazy to jeopardize my health for the race.  So far things are going well with this plan, better than I expected actually.

Jealous for sure,  What no Sunday brick

Me, too!!

I wish I could say the same.  I just seem to keep getting slower.  Taking a rest day today.  I think I'm gonna have to rely on my experience to get me through this one, I hope it is enough.

Since this is my first time at this distance speed is like 16th on my list of things to worry about for the race.  I think you have the base to be able to do it,  and if going slower is the only problem you are having then I think you are doing alright.  With the increase load the workouts are getting harder and they are getting slower for me as well.  I hear that the training is supposed to be the hardest part, and that if you can get through that the race is the reward, or was it pizza and beer afterwards, sometimes I get that confused.  I think you are doing great, take the rest day and slowly add things on,  you only have a couple more weeks before we start to taper. 

WHAT'S AN INTERVAL???

LOL

I just don't want to go SO slow that I don't make it in by midnight (this is a reality for me).  I will keep hanging in there......only time will tell.

Thanks for the inspire

So what is the news? Hoping for the best!

Getting the MRI on Monday and seeing my doctor again on Wednesday, so have to wait a little while before I actually know.   Trying to hold out hope despite the 95%...either way I'm doing LP even if I have to walk the marathon in a boot. I haven't put in this many hours of training for nothing!

Erin, I'm hoping it's not a stress fracture.  In case it is and you need to read an exceptionally inspiring RR of a BT'er who did Wisconsin with and knew ahead of time she'd be walking the entire marathon, read this.