Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: (Page 11)

RedShark - 2011-02-18 2:25 PM

The quote he attached never said anything about them being hypocrites.

JSA - 2011-02-18 2:25 PM Threats made against GOP senators

By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel

Feb. 18, 2011 2:15 p.m. | Madison -- Republican senators have been receiving threats, said John Hogan, chief of staff to Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau).

For that reason, Hogan said that he won't release the senators' locations once they leave the Capitol.

Sen. Randy Hopper (R-Fond du Lac), who has several prisons employing many state workers in or near his district, said he had received threats such as "I have a billy club and I will use it." He said he had not received any death threats.

Hopper said he "ought never be frightened in doing my job" and vowed he would not be intimidated 

http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/116491778.html

1stTimeTri - 2011-02-18 2:37 PM

Despite the Republican Senators being on the opposition of what I have an issue with, I find this quite appalling and don't agree with the tactic.  Senseless.  *shaking my head*

BikerGrrrl - 2011-02-18 2:30 PM

Reading through the posts I keep getting stuck on this idea that public employees automatically make some percentage less than private sector employees and thus they deserve something extra.   

I did a little survey of the Minnesota state salary data and looked up the people I know who do similar jobs.  I am a librarian, so it's pretty easy to do this.  The jobs are very similar from place to place and because of collaboration I truly know what kind of work these actual people are doing.  I was able to look at both University of Minnesota colleagues and the county library system.  Here's what I learned:  They make the same OR MORE than I do.   I didn't find a single example of the people that I knew to have comparable jobs whose salary was even 1k less than what I made.  My salary was in line with the salary survey from the main international association for law librarians, so I am not simply a terrible negotiator.

(Guess what?  I also didn't get a raise for 2 years and then just got one for 2%.  I have already fallen behind pace.  There are several folks at my private University who were laid off or forced to reduce hours in some way.  This on top of the price we pay for health benefits, pension (which was cut, by the way), etc.)

I think part of the problem with unions is the level of brainwashing that they employ to keep employees behind them, supporting the cause.  I am sure each situation is different, but my point is that these broad generalizations don't hold up to scrutiny.

BikerGrrrl - 2011-02-18 3:30 PM

Reading through the posts I keep getting stuck on this idea that public employees automatically make some percentage less than private sector employees and thus they deserve something extra.   

I did a little survey of the Minnesota state salary data and looked up the people I know who do similar jobs.  I am a librarian, so it's pretty easy to do this.  The jobs are very similar from place to place and because of collaboration I truly know what kind of work these actual people are doing.  I was able to look at both University of Minnesota colleagues and the county library system.  Here's what I learned:  They make the same OR MORE than I do.   I didn't find a single example of the people that I knew to have comparable jobs whose salary was even 1k less than what I made.  My salary was in line with the salary survey from the main international association for law librarians, so I am not simply a terrible negotiator.

(Guess what?  I also didn't get a raise for 2 years and then just got one for 2%.  I have already fallen behind pace.  There are several folks at my private University who were laid off or forced to reduce hours in some way.  This on top of the price we pay for health benefits, pension (which was cut, by the way), etc.)

I think part of the problem with unions is the level of brainwashing that they employ to keep employees behind them, supporting the cause.  I am sure each situation is different, but my point is that these broad generalizations don't hold up to scrutiny.

cardenas1 - 2011-02-18 2:46 PM

Bingo...   In general, the base pay is about 50-50 when it comes to who makes more.   But when you add total compensation into the matter, it is not even close in 90% of the comparisons.    

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

This article may help explain... 
 

CBarnes - 2011-02-18 2:47 PM I just heard a brief report that the White House is organizing some of the protests!  Anyone have proof? And That a group of activists marched on Speaker Boehners home Story

1stTimeTri - 2011-02-18 3:57 PM

The Feds do make more.  I knew it!

crowny2 - 2011-02-18 2:34 PM

Your bolded statement does.

ETA: And generalizations on both sides do nothing for the debate.

TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 4:02 PM

Wisconsin teachers are not doing so badly either:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/madison-greed-cloaked-self-righteousness

There is just too much to quote from this article...

TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 1:36 PM

Good and successful companies do understand that they must treat their employees well if they want to maintain a happy and productive workforce.

How do you explain the vast majority of employees in the US who are NOT part of a union making a good and sometimes GREAT living?

I conceded they *had* their place.  However these things are now laws. 

Brock Samson - 2011-02-18 4:09 PM

I see you're from Fla., the reason I also have a problem with the "union" issue as it relates to public employees is that less than 5% of all public employees are in a union.  (The Wisc. thing is apparently different, although I would be interested to see the actual percentage of public employees in Wisc. that are members of unions)

In Fla., which is a right to work state, this "union" issue is also being bandied about talking about reducing salaries/retirement benefits/health benefits.  And it's a red herring because the vast majority, over 95% of all Fla. public employees are NOT in a union.

But, the anti-union sentiment is being used as a public argument to sway popular opinion against public employees.  From the reports and arguments you would think that every public employee is a union member and all of our salaries and benefits are the result of collective bargaining.  It simply isn't true. 

Marvarnett - 2011-02-18 4:08 PM

Where were these pay rates in the 2004?  2006?  When the private sector was booming.  I agree that right NOW...yes we get paid more.  So the private sector should have saved up that cash while I was making less. 

A gov't sector job is like owning a bond, a private sector job is like playing the stock market.  It really is that simple, in my simple mind.

I made the decision to start at $50K vs $70K when I came out of college in 2002.  My peers' salaries exceeded 6 figures in the next two years while I made it up to ~$70K.  Then theirs dropped or stayed the same as mine continued to slowly climb.  BUT now it's my fault for the path I chose since they got laid off or were forced to make conscessions.  How does that make sense?

I'm a Nuclear Engineer by trade btw and could easily double my salary in the private sector (granted, with tons of overtime which my current position frowns upon).

TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 4:12 PM

Very true.  Which is why the FL situation is different from the WI situation.  While there are some similar points you cannot compare them apples to apples.

RedShark - 2011-02-18 3:05 PM

Sorry - I missed the bold - I thought you were talking about the quote you replied to.

Though I wouldn't call it a generalization but an adjective!

TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 3:02 PM

Wisconsin teachers are not doing so badly either:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/madison-greed-cloaked-self-righteousness

There is just too much to quote from this article...

Marvarnett - 2011-02-18 4:08 PM

Where were these pay rates in the 2004?  2006?  When the private sector was booming.  I agree that right NOW...yes we get paid more.  So the private sector should have saved up that cash while I was making less. 

A gov't sector job is like owning a bond, a private sector job is like playing the stock market.  It really is that simple, in my simple mind.

I made the decision to start at $50K vs $70K when I came out of college in 2002.  My peers' salaries exceeded 6 figures in the next two years while I made it up to ~$70K.  Then theirs dropped or stayed the same as mine continued to slowly climb.  BUT now it's my fault for the path I chose since they got laid off or were forced to make conscessions.  How does that make sense?

I'm a Nuclear Engineer by trade btw and could easily double my salary in the private sector (granted, with tons of overtime which my current position frowns upon).

FYI:  My job does have a union, but I am not and never will be a member.

TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 3:10 PM Who had 5 days on the over-under as to when Jessee Jackson was going to show up?  He's now there. (rolleyes)

Marvarnett - 2011-02-18 1:08 PM

Where were these pay rates in the 2004?  2006?  When the private sector was booming.  I agree that right NOW...yes we get paid more.  So the private sector should have saved up that cash while I was making less. 

A gov't sector job is like owning a bond, a private sector job is like playing the stock market.  It really is that simple, in my simple mind.

I made the decision to start at $50K vs $70K when I came out of college in 2002.  My peers' salaries exceeded 6 figures in the next two years while I made it up to ~$70K.  Then theirs dropped or stayed the same as mine continued to slowly climb.  BUT now it's my fault for the path I chose since they got laid off or were forced to make conscessions.  How does that make sense?

I'm a Nuclear Engineer by trade btw and could easily double my salary in the private sector (granted, with tons of overtime which my current position frowns upon).

FYI:  My job does have a union, but I am not and never will be a member.

1stTimeTri - 2011-02-18 3:31 PM

Just great. *rollseyes with you*