Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum (all levels welcome)--CLOSED (Page 11)

2 hrs 25 minutes for me today.  No movement on the scale….but no gain at least!

Hey James -

Stayin' warm up there?

So just for clarification - we start tracking tomorrow, and make our first progress report next Sunday, correct?  (Sorry, I am an old man  )

Thank you.

Swimming is very technical, at least if you want to be reasonably efficient and fast.  Yep, there is a LOT to doing freestyle correctly.  But don't let it overwhelm you.  My suggestion is to take it one 'piece' at a time.  You don't cram the whole Krispy Kream donut in all at one time - well, maybe if it's warm, you nibble away at it, one bite at a time (alright, bad analogy since donuts probably aren't on anyone's menu).  In the same way, worry about one 'piece' of the stroke at a time.  Maybe next time your in the pool, concentrate on perfect entry.  Be aware of all the other stuff, but don't worry about it - concentrate on getting the entry done right.  Next time you are in the pool, maybe you worry about proper body rotation, again, be aware of everything else, but only concentrate on the one thing.  By doing it that way, in a relatively short period of time, you will have concentrated exclusively on, and hopefully mastered or at least significantly improved, every aspect of the stroke.  You will find that, as you get better at the individual pieces, it will become easier to become proficient at the other pieces.  As your entry gets better, it will be easier to do the catch properly.  As your body rotation improves, your recovery and entry will become easier, etc.

Hi Townsley,

Shallow entry and catch is one of the easier things to fix.  It isn't typically a result of some other flaw in technique.  Simply concentrate on getting your hand deeper on entry.  Look at the length of your forearm, that is approximately the depth you want.  You will find the 'golden depth' for you as time goes by.

Crossing over is a little bit harder.  That is typically a result of improper recovery, which could be the result of several other things.  From what you said, "I still struggle with the crossing over on one side," that tells me you have uneven body rotation.  I suspect your rotation is greater to the side you breath on and rotation is less to your non-breathing side.  I also suspect you are breathing on only one side?  Eventually, you want to learn bi-lateral breathing - breathing to both sides.  For the time being, concentrate on getting your body rotation equal to both sides.  The crossing over is caused by your arm swinging wide on the recovery instead of following a straight line.  Something to think about that will help.  During your recovery, you want a high elbow and drag your fingertips across the top of the water in a straight line from the recovery point all the way to entry.  I mean this literally, the next time your in the water, drag your fingers in a straight line across the surface of the water during the entire recovery.  First, that is nearly impossible to do without proper body rotation.  Second, by tracing a straight line from recovery to entry, your hand won't swing out to the side.

While we are talking about it, in my opinion, body rotation is the single most important thing in the freestyle stroke.  It is the foundation of freestyle.  If you get rotation right, everything else will begin to fall into place.  If body rotation is not correct, it becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to do freestyle correctly.  I have an article about body roll on my website.

Hope that helps.

x2!!!  I think it will help keep me focused and stop some of the mindless eating I do.

Scott,

I have been trying to find the post for "reaching for the wall" without much luck.  I think that is my biggest weakness when I swim  I slow too much as I head toward the wall to turn.  One old coach said I was about 8 seconds faster per 50 with an open turn as opposed to the flip turn.  So today I plan on addressing that. Suggestions for the focus other than thinking/ reaching for it?  

As a bit of background…..it took me a long time to even flip turn cause I was afraid I would slam my head into the wall.  never have hit my head, but I have smacked my butt mid flip or the heels pretty hard on my push of…..

I don't know if I'm going to be able to keep up with you guys but I'll give it my best shot.  Looking forward to starting the contest.  My weight has gone up over the last couple of weeks (some from holidays, some from just not eating right) and I'm hoping it will also motivate me to complete my workouts.  Speaking of which - today looks like it's going to be a TM day.  It's snowing - supposed to get up to 10" - windy and really cold.  Temps are falling all day and tomorrow's high won't even get above 0*F with wind chills around -20*.  We haven't had this kind of cold here in almost 20 years.  Hopefully it won't last too long. 

Scott - even though I'm not swimming right now I'm enjoying reading your posts about technique.  I'm a very slow swimmer and I know a lot of it is just technique.  I never actually learned how to swim as a kid.  I took a couple of lessons last year which helped some, but I know I still need a lot of work on it.  I'm going to bookmark your website so I have a reference once I get back to swim training. 

Daves - my husband grew up in Connecticut, in Meriden.  Don't know how close that is to you guys.  Two of his sisters still live in CT - one still in Meriden and the other in Thomaston - and I have an aunt in Danbury.  We've been out there a couple of times - it's a really nice area. 

Strength training - I'm trying to set up some kind of ST workouts.  My plan right now is just generic - 20' one day, 30' another - but doesn't really give me any direction on what to do.  I can't just go to the gym (or the basement) and do something - I need specifics.  So I'm trying to set something up.  I know I need core work but aside from that I'm a little lost.  Can anyone give me some suggestions on what types of things I should be doing?  I have a couple of books that I've been reading through but they all say something different.  Thanks!

Janet

So I have developed my training plan for January and February.  The only real specifics are Scott's swim sessions.  My runs just say recovery, speed, and my 'hill loop'.  My bikes are commuter oriented during the week and my group ride on Saturday.  There is a gap in January when we are headed out of town.

I'd be interested in some suggestions for speed run sessions.  My Thursday morning Luna Chix track workouts will not start until April so I'm in need of some inspiration for my Thursday runs.  

Also, some ideas for my morning commute other than what I have.  My evening commutes I do not try to get a real training session in --- as I am always reflecting on the day or getting a workout in battling a stiff headwind (this happens on about 50% of my rides).

I've yet to build in step back weeks or rest days.

Thanks!

Judi,

I talk about reaching for the wall in the 'Body Roll' article on my website - http://goscottgo.info/index.php/swimming-technique/28-body-roll.  Reaching for the wall" is a tip that helps establish body rotation and elongate the beginning of the stroke.

Please forgive me, I don't understand the nature of your question/comment as body rotation, slowing down as you come to the wall, and flip turns don't really have that much to do with each other.  Can you perhaps clarify just a bit?

You mentioned flip turns so I would like to give you a couple things to think about regarding flip turns. There are two ways you can turn and look like you have some sense of what you are doing - you can do a flip turn, or, just as respectably, you can do an open turn.  Obviously the point of either type of turn is to reverse direction at the wall as fast as possible.  Both turns, when executed properly, can be very quick, with the flip turn being marginally faster - something like  0.05 - 0.1 seconds or so.  Here is the first real point to consider, if you do the swim for a sprint triathlon in a 25 yard pool, that would be 30 laps - 29 turns - which works out to losing something like 1.45 - 2.90 seconds over the course of the swim using an open turn versus a flip turn.  Hardly worth worrying about in a swim that may take +/- 15 minutes for an average swimmer.  If your in open water, well . . . not to many walls in open water.  Both turns, when done correctly, expend about the same amount of energy.  However a flip turn that is done incorrectly will expend far more energy than a properly executed open turn (which has the added benefit of being easier to learn and perform properly).

There is however, one VERY big difference between the two turns.  With the open turn, you get an extra breath at the wall that you do not get with the flip turn.  Say you have two swimmers that are equal in all respects except one uses a flip turn and the other an open turn.  If they both take 20 strokes per lap and breath every fourth stroke, that is 5 breaths per lap - except the swimmer with the open turn gets an extra breath.  That is 20% more oxygen per lap!  That is a distinct advantage for an open turn, especially over longer distances.

This really is one of those things that falls under what I call, "Don't sweat the small stuff."  Yeah, doing a flip turn looks cool.  But at the end of the day, unless you are planning on competing in a freestyle event at a swim meet, it doesn't matter which turn you use.  Should you learn how to do a flip turn properly?  That is entirely a matter of personal preference, there are as many arguments for learning a flip turn as there are against learning a flip turn., but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter.

If you are intent on learning the flip turn, the 'T' at the end of the lane line is exactly 2 meters from the wall in a regulation pool.  You need to figure out where, in relation to the 'T' that you need to start your turn in order to "hit your turn" properly.  The quickest way to do that is get into the pool in an open lane (you have a lane to yourself).  Get out far enough from the wall that you can get up to speed (generally 10 yards or so, a little less than half way down the pool).  Swim towards the wall, get up to speed and maintain the speed all the way to the wall then do a flip turn, noting where you started your turn, then swim back out to where you started.  Did you hit your turn?  Too close to the wall?  Too far from the wall?  Do another turn, making whatever adjustment you need to make to hit the turn.  Maybe do this 10 times.  If it were me, I would be using open turns in my workouts and doing my 'turn drill' in the middle of my workout.  When I got to where I had done maybe 3 or 4 turn drills in which I had successfully hit all 10 turns, then I might consider starting to use flip turns in my workout.  There is enough to worry about when you are learning how to swim with proper technique.  By moving learning and mastering the flip turn to a drill, as opposed to using it now in workouts, you can avoid sweating the small stuff and concentrate on those things that will make you a more efficient swimmer.

Just my two cents.  If you can clarify your original comment/question, I will see if I can answer it.

Thanks Scott,

I focused on reaching for the wall today and that helped me engage my lats in a way that I hadn't felt them before.

I've been doing flip turns for about 6 or 7 years, I can do them….but I slow too much heading into them.  Not sure why I don't maintain any speed going into them, but then again I am a pretty slow swimmer so it isn't like I am losing a lot of time due to a poorly executed turn.  I average 2:15-2:20/ 100 no matter what I do.

My swim background is weak at best.  My father taught me enough to keep me from drowning as a child.  I was 45 when I decided to start training for triathlons so that was when I had my first real swim lesson.  The fact that I "look" smooth is a miracle…but smooth has yet to = fast for me.

I saw the most recent issue of the USAT magazine advocated that triathletes incorporate  IM work in the off season.  I can do a decent back and something that resembles breast stroke (would be eliminated in a meet for sure!).  My fly is pretty bad, as in the guard needs to be on deck and ready to do CPR when I get done with even 50 yards of it.  Since Fly pull has that EVF needed in free I may force myself to incorporate more IM work no matter how much I hate it.

WooHoooo  I lost 1 lb.

I have found exercise routines out of magazines very helpful.  I've attached some of the stuff I do.

Not sure if this will help...but I do something called the Myrtl routine every weekday morning and also do a Lunge stretch routine.  I think the Myrtl routine has helped quite a bit with respect to keeping hip joints loose and also has strengthened my butt.  You will have to click on the Lunge Series link in the article to view the routine.  Both take about 7 minutes each so they are perfect for doing 1st thing in the morning.