BT Development Mentor Program Archives » SBR Utopia - OPEN Rss Feed  
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2013-03-21 6:51 PM
in reply to: #4669639

Master
10208
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TankBoy - 2013-03-21 6:33 PM

tri808 - 2013-03-21 4:19 PM

...How does adding the CO2 to the wing shave 90 seconds off a 40k?

Good ol' fashioned Elfin magic, plain and simple.

And from what I understand is that Marc's formula is good for most things, unless dimples are involved. Dimples are proven at certain yaws to create a small tear in the space-time continuum (OK, it is really a trans-dimensional perforated crease, but I don't want to get TOO technical) and actually cause you to take small leaps back in time while you actually move FORWARD in space. Sportstracks is actually working with WTC on a new timing algorithm/mat location in upcoming Ironman races to analyze the true effect dimpled products have, but until then Kate, I think Ben's advice to "roll with what ya got" is the best advice so far.

How well regarded is PowerTri? I really don't know. They also have results from apparel testing. Apparently wearing CEP calf compression is near 74 seconds faster over 40k, and 2XU is ~24 seconds slower. or ~97 seconds slower than CEP. While I'm sure that there are differences, some things just don't pass the sniff test.



2013-03-21 7:16 PM
in reply to: #4669656

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
brigby1 - 2013-03-21 1:51 PM
TankBoy - 2013-03-21 6:33 PM

tri808 - 2013-03-21 4:19 PM

...How does adding the CO2 to the wing shave 90 seconds off a 40k?

Good ol' fashioned Elfin magic, plain and simple.

And from what I understand is that Marc's formula is good for most things, unless dimples are involved. Dimples are proven at certain yaws to create a small tear in the space-time continuum (OK, it is really a trans-dimensional perforated crease, but I don't want to get TOO technical) and actually cause you to take small leaps back in time while you actually move FORWARD in space. Sportstracks is actually working with WTC on a new timing algorithm/mat location in upcoming Ironman races to analyze the true effect dimpled products have, but until then Kate, I think Ben's advice to "roll with what ya got" is the best advice so far.

How well regarded is PowerTri? I really don't know. They also have results from apparel testing. Apparently wearing CEP calf compression is near 74 seconds faster over 40k, and 2XU is ~24 seconds slower. or ~97 seconds slower than CEP. While I'm sure that there are differences, some things just don't pass the sniff test.

I was kind of thinking that you needed to actually use the CO2 as some type of rocket boosters.  Maybe integrate it into Di2...you know...sort of like hitting the NOS button.

2013-03-21 7:49 PM
in reply to: #4669672

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
tri808 - 2013-03-21 7:16 PM
brigby1 - 2013-03-21 1:51 PM
TankBoy - 2013-03-21 6:33 PM

tri808 - 2013-03-21 4:19 PM

...How does adding the CO2 to the wing shave 90 seconds off a 40k?

Good ol' fashioned Elfin magic, plain and simple.

And from what I understand is that Marc's formula is good for most things, unless dimples are involved. Dimples are proven at certain yaws to create a small tear in the space-time continuum (OK, it is really a trans-dimensional perforated crease, but I don't want to get TOO technical) and actually cause you to take small leaps back in time while you actually move FORWARD in space. Sportstracks is actually working with WTC on a new timing algorithm/mat location in upcoming Ironman races to analyze the true effect dimpled products have, but until then Kate, I think Ben's advice to "roll with what ya got" is the best advice so far.

How well regarded is PowerTri? I really don't know. They also have results from apparel testing. Apparently wearing CEP calf compression is near 74 seconds faster over 40k, and 2XU is ~24 seconds slower. or ~97 seconds slower than CEP. While I'm sure that there are differences, some things just don't pass the sniff test.

I was kind of thinking that you needed to actually use the CO2 as some type of rocket boosters.  Maybe integrate it into Di2...you know...sort of like hitting the NOS button.

Shimano has been touting the versatility of the new 9000 series.

2013-03-21 8:17 PM
in reply to: #4669604

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Master
2770
20005001001002525
Central Kansas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

riorio - 2013-03-21 6:00 PM
cdban66 - 2013-03-21 2:20 PM

Thanks for the last two pages everyone, the questions and answers have given me a whole lot of thought topics for the next few days.

Kate - You'll do great, you've done the work, don't worry and enjoy Ocala.

The last 2 pages have been as confusing to me as my son's Honors Algebra homework! 

I agree. But the math is also kind of hot. And scary, because after awhile, it begins to make sense to me. Great information.

At one race last spring, there was a guy with a milk crate tied over his back tire. (Remember that guy, Adrienne?) I would like to see the math on the drag for that.

And he passed me. :-(
2013-03-21 8:21 PM
in reply to: #4669614

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Fred D - 2013-03-21 6:06 PM
marcag - 2013-03-21 5:35 PM
Marc you are a real asset on this topic. My question is this? Do you think these reasonably simple formulae really represent what happens in real world conditions or are more of an estimate of what is happening with drag and aerodynamics? I try to do what's best for aero and then pedal really effin' hard. What do you think, do?

thanks

Yes, the formulas are pretty accurate.

What I personally don't believe in is the numbers the manufacturers quote. They are true numbers, but created in an unreal environment. A single wheel in a wind tunnel is one thing, but on a bike with a rider with all kinds of turbulence, is another story.

It's so friggin complex. Helmet A is faster for athlete A while helmet B is faster for athlete B. But if he lifts his arms 2 cm, it changes.....two runs in a wind tunnel yield different results, just because the rider changes in the most minor way.

One thing is absolutely sure. With a powermeter and some formulas, you can experiment and find the combination of equipment and position that is optimal. For this the equations are 100% accurate.

We are really lucky in Montreal. We have a Formula 1 track we can do this on. Not only is it super geeky fun, but you can get a good workout doing it.



Edited by marcag 2013-03-21 8:23 PM
2013-03-21 8:29 PM
in reply to: #4669720

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
KansasMom - 2013-03-21 8:17 PM

riorio - 2013-03-21 6:00 PM
cdban66 - 2013-03-21 2:20 PM

Thanks for the last two pages everyone, the questions and answers have given me a whole lot of thought topics for the next few days.

Kate - You'll do great, you've done the work, don't worry and enjoy Ocala.

The last 2 pages have been as confusing to me as my son's Honors Algebra homework! 

I agree. But the math is also kind of hot. And scary, because after awhile, it begins to make sense to me. Great information.

At one race last spring, there was a guy with a milk crate tied over his back tire. (Remember that guy, Adrienne?) I would like to see the math on the drag for that.

And he passed me. :-(

Some guy around here has a cardboard fairing covering the front half of his rear wheel. With the way he built it, I think it makes things worse.



2013-03-21 8:43 PM
in reply to: #4669319

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
ChrisM - 2013-03-21 2:47 PM

Maybe after making you feel....welll. you know....maybe I can make you happier

http://www.powertri-blog.com/biking/preliminary-wind-tunnel-results-on-hydration-systems.html

The front profile design systems are faster than speedfill.

Frame mount (that thing is a tank, as you say).  They didn't test the speedfil A2.  have you seen results for that?

I'd suspect the A2 would have a good deal of variability as it would depend on how well one actually gets it down between their arms and what they do with the straw.

2013-03-22 7:21 AM
in reply to: #4543084

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Master
6834
5000100050010010010025
Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Any suggestions for a book on bike mechanic/building? I may start doing some work on my old mountain bike for some practice. But I'd like to get my pea sized brain around some of it first, so reading may be the starting place.

Thanks

2013-03-22 7:39 AM
in reply to: #4669994

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Master
2912
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...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
cdban66 - 2013-03-22 8:21 AM

Any suggestions for a book on bike mechanic/building? I may start doing some work on my old mountain bike for some practice. But I'd like to get my pea sized brain around some of it first, so reading may be the starting place.

Thanks

Chris - it is not a book, but I highly reccomend Sheldon Brown's Website. He passed away 5 years ago, but it is such a definitive source for everything regarding bicycle building, repair, and maintenance that it continues to be well maintained and expanded. I cannot even begin to tell you how much I have learned from Sheldon Over the years. But careful - you can really get sucked in.... He was incredibly knowledgeable and a very good writer/explainer/teacher. Also check out the blog associated with his site - the most current post is actually about bicycle refinishing...

also, if you have a good LBS don't underestimate the value of showing up with a couple of 6 packs on Friday afternoon a little before closing time. That has proven to be my second most valuable resource...

For books really the only one I have used is Zinn's road bike book which I got a million years ago - but honestly Sheldon's site is much, much better...

2013-03-22 8:47 AM
in reply to: #4670013

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Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

I agree with Rusty, Sheldon's website is great but if you want an actual book the Zinn ones are pretty good too.

We are in the middle of another snowstorm (what happened to spring?).  As a result, i have the day off work but I still went in town to drop my wife off to work and to get my swim in.  I had the pool completely to myself for about 45 mins - I love diving into a perfectly still pool.

I'm supposed to get a run in today as well but my wife threatened to divorce me if I tried to go out in the current conditions. I'm hoping it eases up a bit this afternoon.

2013-03-22 8:51 AM
in reply to: #4670110

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Master
2912
2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
axteraa - 2013-03-22 9:47 AM

I agree with Rusty, Sheldon's website is great but if you want an actual book the Zinn ones are pretty good too.

We are in the middle of another snowstorm (what happened to spring?).  As a result, i have the day off work but I still went in town to drop my wife off to work and to get my swim in.  I had the pool completely to myself for about 45 mins - I love diving into a perfectly still pool.

I'm supposed to get a run in today as well but my wife threatened to divorce me if I tried to go out in the current conditions. I'm hoping it eases up a bit this afternoon.

Dude? You call your wife "it" ?!?!?



2013-03-22 8:56 AM
in reply to: #4670119

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Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TankBoy - 2013-03-22 10:51 AM
axteraa - 2013-03-22 9:47 AM

I agree with Rusty, Sheldon's website is great but if you want an actual book the Zinn ones are pretty good too.

We are in the middle of another snowstorm (what happened to spring?).  As a result, i have the day off work but I still went in town to drop my wife off to work and to get my swim in.  I had the pool completely to myself for about 45 mins - I love diving into a perfectly still pool.

I'm supposed to get a run in today as well but my wife threatened to divorce me if I tried to go out in the current conditions. I'm hoping it eases up a bit this afternoon.

Dude? You call your wife "it" ?!?!?

Ok, I LOL'd - literally.  

2013-03-22 9:07 AM
in reply to: #4669994

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Master
2411
2000100100100100
Goodyear, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
cdban66 - 2013-03-22 5:21 AM

Any suggestions for a book on bike mechanic/building? I may start doing some work on my old mountain bike for some practice. But I'd like to get my pea sized brain around some of it first, so reading may be the starting place.

Thanks

x2 on Sheldon Brown and also lots of good you tube videos. I'm more of a visual learner so I take the laptop to the garage and work along with the videos.

2013-03-22 10:50 AM
in reply to: #4543084

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Ok...just got a PM back from Ron and the Spring Mentor Groups should be starting up again sometime next week.  I'm going to take a fair guess that most people want to continue with this group as is?  Let me know if you guys want to start the group as closed or open to new members.  I really don't mind either way as we've got a really solid group going now.
2013-03-22 11:42 AM
in reply to: #4670334

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Master
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Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

tri808 - 2013-03-22 11:50 AM Ok...just got a PM back from Ron and the Spring Mentor Groups should be starting up again sometime next week.  I'm going to take a fair guess that most people want to continue with this group as is?  Let me know if you guys want to start the group as closed or open to new members.  I really don't mind either way as we've got a really solid group going now.

As one who reads waaaaayyyyy more then he posts, I can honestly say that I have no opinion either way.

2013-03-22 11:48 AM
in reply to: #4670334

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Elite
7783
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

tri808 - 2013-03-22 12:50 PM Ok...just got a PM back from Ron and the Spring Mentor Groups should be starting up again sometime next week.  I'm going to take a fair guess that most people want to continue with this group as is?  Let me know if you guys want to start the group as closed or open to new members.  I really don't mind either way as we've got a really solid group going now.

I think leaving the group open worked well.  Those who want to stay will, those that don't won't.  I know there was concern that there would be an overly large group with too much cross traffic but I don't feel that ever happened.  Sure there were days where it was tough to keep up with the fast pace (practice for sprints) but most of the time it was a good steady pace (IM training.    .



2013-03-22 11:48 AM
in reply to: #4670334

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

tri808 - 2013-03-22 8:50 AM Ok...just got a PM back from Ron and the Spring Mentor Groups should be starting up again sometime next week.  I'm going to take a fair guess that most people want to continue with this group as is?  Let me know if you guys want to start the group as closed or open to new members.  I really don't mind either way as we've got a really solid group going now.

Aren't we already open???  No one seems to love us and want to join.  lol  I am good either way.  The large size never seems to be a concern cause folks just fall off naturally anyways.

2013-03-22 12:33 PM
in reply to: #4670334

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Master
2912
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...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
tri808 - 2013-03-22 11:50 AMOk...just got a PM back from Ron and the Spring Mentor Groups should be starting up again sometime next week.  I'm going to take a fair guess that most people want to continue with this group as is?  Let me know if you guys want to start the group as closed or open to new members.  I really don't mind either way as we've got a really solid group going now.

Jason, I am cool with sticking with the original experiment and leave the group open for at least one more round. Like Kim pointed out, technically we are still open now, it is just that the banner for the mentor groups currently says that the mentor groups are full and that they will reopen in April, so nobody looks.

2013-03-22 12:41 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Rusty...that was my original thinking.  We're steady right now, but once the mentor groups reopen, we will likely take on 5-10 more members.  Whether or not they stick is up to them...but if more people do stick, it could cause more cross traffic than we are used to now.

Personally, I don't think it will be too big a deal.  I kind of know who the experts are in their fields, so if I ask a question that gets buried by other conversation...I always know I can PM specific folks.

2013-03-22 1:28 PM
in reply to: #4670119

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TankBoy - 2013-03-22 6:51 AM
axteraa - 2013-03-22 9:47 AM

I agree with Rusty, Sheldon's website is great but if you want an actual book the Zinn ones are pretty good too.

We are in the middle of another snowstorm (what happened to spring?).  As a result, i have the day off work but I still went in town to drop my wife off to work and to get my swim in.  I had the pool completely to myself for about 45 mins - I love diving into a perfectly still pool.

I'm supposed to get a run in today as well but my wife threatened to divorce me if I tried to go out in the current conditions. I'm hoping it eases up a bit this afternoon.

Dude? You call your wife "it" ?!?!?

Now that there is funny.  I think I am a tad bit spoiled in Arizona.  I already decided that today was going to be cold, even put on a long sleeve shirt etc etc, knowing that it was going to be 67.  Not >70 means sucky day to me.  Although tomorrow is only 50.  Sunday I decided to head to the valley so I don't even care that it will only be 60 here.

Sounds like your going through a pretty typical Maritime spring. 

2013-03-22 2:32 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Elite
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Ontario
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Might as well be honest.  I love the dynamic of this group, and the topics that get brought up and hashed back and forth.  I wouldn't want additional noise and lose that - I rely on you guys!!  That said, I also see the value in adding new blood and having others share the knowledge.

Guess I'm being selfish...(now pausing and waiting for a smarta$$ comment from Rusty - the one to Arend was great!)



2013-03-22 3:07 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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2013-03-22 5:22 PM
in reply to: #4543084

Master
5557
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, California
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

As a number if you know I had my struggles with not only BT but also triathlon a few months ago and definitely feel as though mentor groups are the strength of the site. I am going to continue to focus on this and again welcome anybody interested in the participating and joining my group in but also encourage others to either stay with this group or stay with the group and consider forming their own mentor group as there many knowledgeable people here who could help others.

Glad you stuck around

2013-03-23 2:40 PM
in reply to: #4543084

Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Don't you hate it when you have to change a tube but you can't find the source of the flat?!?!  Here's hoping I still have air in the tires tomorrow.
2013-03-23 5:32 PM
in reply to: #4671539

Master
2411
2000100100100100
Goodyear, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

bzgl40 - 2013-03-23 12:40 PM Don't you hate it when you have to change a tube but you can't find the source of the flat?!?!  Here's hoping I still have air in the tires tomorrow.

We were 30 mins late getting out on our ride today because my friend went through 3 tubes in 2 tires, she had slices in her tires

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