Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed (Page 13)

Randy it was a good article until I got to the very end. In the Predict Your TIme chart it ends at a 8:56 mile. Very disheartening.

On the plus side, I did two hours of Sufferfest, both interval workouts. Felt pretty good. I start with the Masters swim program on Tuesday to get that back up to speed.

Until last week I was doing 2 hard VO2 workouts on the bike, all easy run. I have moved to 1 really hard VO2ish workout on the bike, 1 hard run, 1 hard swim. I do them Mon, Thu, Sat so I have time to recover.

While this week was 3 "hard" workouts, they get progressively harder so it will be tougher as the next few weeks go by. But this week was fine.

If I get one day "rest" between them I am fine. For example Monday, hard bike, easy run, Tuesday 1hr swim, ran 8k. Wed I did 90min strength on the bike. Thu easy swim and hard run. Easy run today.

Sure Randy, I have a topic. I have been doing Olys for competition so I have not had to worry about carrying sufficient nutrition on the bike. I have a HIM in May and a full in Dec. So I am working on my nutrition options.

On my long rides I take two bottle, one generally just water and one a nutrition mix which I am still adjusting. The mix today is a half OJ half water with a double shot of HEED. I nurse that and drink the water. Sometimes I refill the water because the one is not enough. I also carry a few solids, typically a Honey Stinger Waffle and some kind of nutrition bar. On my longer rides 3-4 hours that works fine. When I push up to 5-6 I definitely would like to have more liquid on board without having to refill.

My questions are two:

1. How do you fuel a longer race? Do you carry or rely on the on course offerings?

2. Liquid specific, how much do you carry and how? I am looking at both a double cage for behind the seat and something between the aero bars.

I have a few months before my half and want to be able to test before then.

Thanks in advance,

4150m swim this AM

250m w/u
750m of drills and kick

2x50
2x100
2x200
3x50
3x100
3x200
4x50
4x100
4x200

All on multiples of 1:40/100m send offs (:50, 1:40, 3:20)

It was brutal.



Edited by marcag 2016-01-16 11:10 AM

400 choice + 5x200 cruise on :15r (seriously, just cruise - focus on form and good streamline off the wall with each turn) + 20x50 fast on :20r (keep these consistent...within 2secs of each other for all of them) + 200 choice c/d

20 min run by feel

Done

Third day in a row of swimming. I'm feeling it!!!

Heard some athletes chattering today about struggling with getting all their swims in since the pool they go to has had a funky schedule the past 2 weeks and being down about missing a session and training opportunity. It got me thinking.....

How many of you have missed a swim because of the pool hours changing, or not having enough time to dedicate to get to the pool, swim, change, etc.

What about biking? How many people during the indoor riding months don't have time to get the session in, or cannot because they are not home?

What is your plan in place when this happens? Just scrap it? Make it up?

Or........

Go run!

Carry your run shoes wherever you go, you can run anyway and its a lot easier to carry your run gear then your bike gear.

I think people often greatly undervalue the benefits of 2x10-15' runs each week. It adds to your volume, but more importantly breeds frequency and builds consistency.

Thoughts?

Ben, I struggle with juggling workouts all the time. I travel a lot, I have only been at my home less than 1 week over the last 3 months. I also work 12 hour shifts, typically 7 on/7 off but often it's 14 days on/7 off.

I always have a gym bag packed and ready to go in my car. Swim suit, running gear, power bars etc. I have a Y membership as they often offer reciprocal privileges across the country. I also joined Planet Fitness for those days I can't make the YMCA hours, and they are open 24/7.

As far as swimming, that is the hardest challenge. This week I did 3 swims in last 3 days. My schedule did not call for 3 swims in a row, but I typically take advantage of an open pool whenever I can. For me, swim workouts require the least amount of recovery, and I am typically able to do many days in a row. So if my week is hectic, but I can get to the pool, I prioritize it.

When I travel anywhere in driving distance, I take my bike and trainer, plus a fan. My trainer is pretty quiet (Wahoo Kickr) and I've yet to hear any complaints about me riding right in my hotel room. I set the bike up as soon as I get to my room so it is ready to use. Even get bike outfit out and ready, shoes, etc. If it is all set up and ready, I am much more likely to get on it.

Basically, if I have all the pre workout stuff done, there are less obstacles and hence less resistance to getting up and going.

I still miss workouts, but being prepared has limited missed workouts.

Finally, my coach has told me if I miss a workout, just let it go and don's try to make it up.

Jim

I have a nutrition plan that works really well, for me.

I'm currently typing on a phone so I will wait until tonight or tomorrow to post what I do. I definitely subscribe to the KISS theory of race nutrition.

I'm back from our fantastic Caribbean vacation. Stayed up way too late, ate way too much and got way too much sun. Unfortunately, did way too little in terms of exercise. Only managed one short run but I did spend a good bit of time in the water. Gained about 4 lbs. to top off at 186 Sunday morning. Not good when you're only 5'7". I'm ready to get back to reality and back to training. Ran 6 miles yesterday afternoon and fired up the MyFitnessPal account and got back to tracking calories. Getting ready to run 4 miles here shortly but can't decide if it will be outside or on the treadmill. We got a couple inches of snow last night which is just enough to make the shoulders of the road slick. Not too mention it's 23 degrees with a windchill of 12. Is it possible to get frostbite on a sunburn?

Randy I tried to do yoga but my Type A personality found it just too slow. I am just two sessions in on some pliates classes which suit me a bit better. Not sure I will hang in for the long term with that either to be honest.

That said, I stretch several times a day. I have a routine that really keeps my legs in good working order. Not quite the same thing but I just couldn't justify the time with yoga.



Edited by Stuartap 2016-01-18 8:12 PM

My wife has been into yoga for a few years. Sometimes join her, but it's not something I consistently do. I like it, I just don't really have the time. Actually I do find myself doing it more lately - my 5 year old daughter is really into it and just got a yoga for kids book and a video so I've been practicing with her. It's ridiculous how inflexible I am compared to her.

I did it once and fell asleep during the breathing/relaxation portion. I got reprimanded for snoring so that was the end of my yoga career.

Yesterday I did a 6x4@105 w/1min recovery. Hard but manageable.

Today masters in the morning and a run later.

I always approach nutrition methodically to start and then test to see if will work. I get out my handy accountant's spreadsheet and I say, "ok, based on AVERAGES, how much of the following do I need based on my weight and the weather:
fluid
calories
electrolytes."

Then I look at the bike and know that's where I'll get most of my calories in. For the two HIMs I did I lived off the course for the run but not for the bike. For my one IM I carried all my own nutrition bike and run because quite frankly I was afraid to eat anything solid on the run and I just can't handle Gatorade and Gus for the 5-6 hours I knew I would be out there. Gatorade has this nasty taste to me and not NEARLY enough electrolytes so I'd need salt anyway and the thought of 6 gels makes my stomach turn. This year, I will probably play around with the run nutrition so I don't have to carry it all - but my bike strategy holds.

Oh and if you plan on bringing your own anything, always bring MORE than you think you'll need.

2 things that struck me right off about your mix is 1. Orange juice will get nasty in the heat. 2. Heed has very little calories and very little electrolytes - don't get me wrong it tastes great and has it's place but probably not in long course racing. Just MO.

Hope that helps.

and fwiw, my nutrition planning was spot on for IM. I finished and felt great.

Fueling for a HIM/IM

Starts in the morning. You need to be practicing what you eat before you race so that come race day you know what you can eat, and wehn you can eat it so that you can hit the start line fueled and ready to start (and it may actually start the 24 hours before the race, getting whatever works for you in to your body in the 24 hours before the race starts)

Race morning:

I eat two packets of quaker maple and brown sugar oatmeal (I can bring this with me to a race and have the same breakfast every time) with raisins in it. One to two bananas. One to two cups of coffee. All finished at least 90 minutes before the race starts and ideally about two hours before gun time.

I then drink 20 ounces of my standard bike race mixture (about 430 calories-I'll go over this in a little bit) with the goal of being finished with this 15-30 minutes before the gun. By this point my calories are completely topped off, I am very well hydrated (by the time I get in the water I really, really have to pee......), and ready to race.

I do the above nutritional strategy before every morning race, pretty much every distance. I don't need to fuel like that for a 5k or a sprint but if I practice it before every race I know that it works when the big, A races come around.

Swim Nutrition:

Ha ha. Sometimes I get excessive swim hydration but no nutrition while swimming.

Bike:

Here's where it starts to really matter. Liquid nutrition is where it is at. My whole nutrition, for the entire race, is packed in to four, 20 ounce water bottles. Two of which are on the bike (like your plan, Stuart, one between my arms, one behind my seat. Each bottle has one packet of U-Can (170 calories more or less) and 2.5 scoops of my custom Infinit mix (about 270 calories). I don't have either product with me right now so I can't tell you exact amounts of electrolytes, carbs, protein, caffeine, etc, but rest assured that that they have all of these things in them :-) The big thing is that each bottle has about 430 calories of electrolyte laden goodness. Two bottles go on the bike, two bottles in bike special needs which is at the half way point of the IM. (If I am doing a HIM, the two bottles on the bike are the only nutrition I need)

I have no idea where I got these numbers from but I swear to you that they are real-world based and have some scientific basis. Most people can absorb anywhere from 4-6 calories/kg/hour while on the bike, racing at HIM/IM pace......... Some people fall on the higher end, some on the lower. Some people can do more than this but 4-6 calories/kg/hour is a great starting point. I'm about 68 kg but round up to 70........ 70 x 4 = 280, 70 x 6 = 420, so 280-420 calories per hour (pretty wide range to work with). A 80 kilo person would be 320 - 480, a 90 kilo person would be 360-540, and so on.

I try to drink the first bottle in the first hour on the bike. I figure I am already a little behind on fueling from the 1:12-15 ;-( that I have spent in the water. Then I drink a bottle every 1:15 or so which puts me around 360 calories per hour, right in the middle of my range. Whenever I finish a bottle I drop it at an aid station and pick up a water bottle. I supplement my nutrition bottles with water as needed. Hot, dry races, more water, cold, wet races, less water. For me, hunger is a great indicator that I am getting a little bit dry. If I start to feel hungry I drink a pretty big bolus of water and my hunger goes away. Pretty handy, huh? I really try to have the second bottle finished by bike special needs. I stop for about 20 seconds at special needs, trade out whatever is on my bike for two new bottles of carbohydrate-electrolyte deliciousness. I come to a complete stop. I figure the 20-40 seconds it takes me is well worth it to ensure that I get my second half nutrition.

At IM Muskoka I lost my behind the seat bottle on a particularly rough section of road. One quarter of my nutrition gone less than an hour in to the race. Well, you need to be able to adapt and so I did; I grabbed gatorade at the next aid station and fueled/hydrated, assuming that each bottle had about 200 calories in it, which meant that I needed less water. Gotta be able to adapt......

My first IM I took in bars and gels and pretzels and other stuff, and at mile 15 of the marathon my gut revolted. I then raced an olympic with some gels/solids early in the next season with more explosive results. Since I have switched to the 100% liquid fueling plan I have never had any GI issues and have had energy to burn through the finish line.

Run:

I'm an outlier here. I don't carry anything with me on the run. I hate the waist packs/hydration systems. Hate 'em. I use them in training because I have to but I know there is an aid station every mile on the run so I don't carry a darn thing with me. I drink a dixie cup of coke and 1-3 cups of water every time it is offered to me. I take no electrolytes, no gatorade, no solids, no gels, no anyhthing but coke and water for the whole run. If you are ever feeling low on energy, coke is the magic elixir that will jump start your race. Walk an aid station and drink 1-2 cups of coke and in 20 minutes the body should start perking up. Again, I take coke right from the start. I see no benefit in waiting until the half way point or some arbitrary number. I want that energy. You can't absorb as much calories on the run as you do on the bike. Too much jostling. Your goal should be to ingest 1-3 calories/kg/hour. I figure my dixie cups of coke give me at least this. The important fueling happened on the bike when my body could really take in fuel.

I don't turn in a run special needs bag. At the half way point of the run I'm not stopping for anything. If you have something that you really want to pick you up, by all means do so. I turned one in at my first IM and when I got there, there just wasn't anything I needed. I'm comfortable with that decision and have gone without a run SN bag for five consecutive IMs.

That is about it. Everything I take in has caffeine in it. I don't ever sleep well after an IM. Whether it is the caffeine or just post race endorphin jitters, I don't know. I just lay there in bed and play the race over in my head.

Questions? Comments?

I fully realize that nutrition is very individual. What works for me may not work for you. I encourage you to read about race fueling. Try it out while training at race pace. Adjust as needed.

yes, your gate can change the numbers slightly. For example on the treadmill if I kick a little at the back my pace appears to increase on my Garmin even if the treadmill remains constant

The trick is to play with the calibration factor that you will find in the footpod configuration. It's probably a number like 897 or .897 or 89.7 depending on the model.

If the treadmill says 7.5mph and my Garmin says 7.4mph I want the Garmin to appear faster. So I increase the calibration factor, so in the above example from 897 to maybe 917

In my case 897 works well on the track. 917 works well on the treadmill.

Personally I calibrate on the track and just use that. I run on a 200m track and i press lap every time I lap. My Garmin will say 195m, so I increase the calibration factor a little. Currently my Garmin is bang on for track work at both 5min/km and 3:45/km. If I don't change the factor, on the treadmill at 5min/km it will show 5:09/km. I don't mind. The track is more important for me. I could set it when going from one to the other.

In your case you need to decrease the number to match your treadmill


Is that clear ?

Edited by marcag 2016-01-19 3:37 PM