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SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! (Page 17)
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 2014-01-15 12:07 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
 Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!Forgive me if it violates the thread rules, but I just listed an adamo attack in the classifieds for $150, I know some folks here have been doing the saddle dance. Experiment is over, just didn't work for me. |
| 2014-01-15 12:30 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 What was it about the longer swims that you thought made them less of a contributor to fitness? Just couldn't hold form that long? Something else about them? As Ben mentioned, they are just harder to push beyond your limits. I mean...the last thing you want to do is bury yourself so deep that you're completely exhausted and gasping for air while still 100-500 yards from shore, in 10-40 feet deep water. That's what the wall is for at the pool. You're never more than 12 or 25 yards/meters away from the wall at all times. When I finish a pool workout, I usually come out pretty gassed. And there are times during the harder sets where I want to quit. I never really feel that way during or after and OWS. I suppose I could push myself that hard...but I don't. The fact that you have to tread water or keep swimming while resting makes a big difference (again...no wall or shallow area to stand up on during your rest intervals...if you're trying to do intervals in the OW). Also, how did you feel coming out of the water at Kona compared to other races (and is this the same approach you used to train for other races, or a new one to you)? I felt great. It was probably the race where I felt like I was using the least amount of effort. I was in a huge draft pack and if anything, I had to slow myself down to avoid running into feet. |
| 2014-01-15 12:36 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Elite  7783      PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 What was it about the longer swims that you thought made them less of a contributor to fitness? Just couldn't hold form that long? Something else about them? As Ben mentioned, they are just harder to push beyond your limits. I mean...the last thing you want to do is bury yourself so deep that you're completely exhausted and gasping for air while still 100-500 yards from shore, in 10-40 feet deep water. That's what the wall is for at the pool. You're never more than 12 or 25 yards/meters away from the wall at all times. When I finish a pool workout, I usually come out pretty gassed. And there are times during the harder sets where I want to quit. I never really feel that way during or after and OWS. I suppose I could push myself that hard...but I don't. The fact that you have to tread water or keep swimming while resting makes a big difference (again...no wall or shallow area to stand up on during your rest intervals...if you're trying to do intervals in the OW). Also, how did you feel coming out of the water at Kona compared to other races (and is this the same approach you used to train for other races, or a new one to you)? I felt great. It was probably the race where I felt like I was using the least amount of effort. I was in a huge draft pack and if anything, I had to slow myself down to avoid running into feet. That's what wetsuits are for. |
| 2014-01-15 1:25 PM in reply to: axteraa |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 What was it about the longer swims that you thought made them less of a contributor to fitness? Just couldn't hold form that long? Something else about them? As Ben mentioned, they are just harder to push beyond your limits. I mean...the last thing you want to do is bury yourself so deep that you're completely exhausted and gasping for air while still 100-500 yards from shore, in 10-40 feet deep water. That's what the wall is for at the pool. You're never more than 12 or 25 yards/meters away from the wall at all times. When I finish a pool workout, I usually come out pretty gassed. And there are times during the harder sets where I want to quit. I never really feel that way during or after and OWS. I suppose I could push myself that hard...but I don't. The fact that you have to tread water or keep swimming while resting makes a big difference (again...no wall or shallow area to stand up on during your rest intervals...if you're trying to do intervals in the OW). Also, how did you feel coming out of the water at Kona compared to other races (and is this the same approach you used to train for other races, or a new one to you)? I felt great. It was probably the race where I felt like I was using the least amount of effort. I was in a huge draft pack and if anything, I had to slow myself down to avoid running into feet. That's what wetsuits are for. I had an Oly 2 years ago. The race director announced in the morning that the water temp was 77.8 degrees, so you could use a wetsuit, but everyone will laugh at you. That's kind of how it is here...most people don't own one, or if they did, they would never think of bringing it to a race "just in case." |
| 2014-01-15 3:39 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 What was it about the longer swims that you thought made them less of a contributor to fitness? Just couldn't hold form that long? Something else about them? As Ben mentioned, they are just harder to push beyond your limits. I mean...the last thing you want to do is bury yourself so deep that you're completely exhausted and gasping for air while still 100-500 yards from shore, in 10-40 feet deep water. That's what the wall is for at the pool. You're never more than 12 or 25 yards/meters away from the wall at all times. When I finish a pool workout, I usually come out pretty gassed. And there are times during the harder sets where I want to quit. I never really feel that way during or after and OWS. I suppose I could push myself that hard...but I don't. The fact that you have to tread water or keep swimming while resting makes a big difference (again...no wall or shallow area to stand up on during your rest intervals...if you're trying to do intervals in the OW). Also, how did you feel coming out of the water at Kona compared to other races (and is this the same approach you used to train for other races, or a new one to you)? I felt great. It was probably the race where I felt like I was using the least amount of effort. I was in a huge draft pack and if anything, I had to slow myself down to avoid running into feet. That's what wetsuits are for. I had an Oly 2 years ago. The race director announced in the morning that the water temp was 77.8 degrees, so you could use a wetsuit, but everyone will laugh at you. That's kind of how it is here...most people don't own one, or if they did, they would never think of bringing it to a race "just in case." A friend didn't have a wetsuit for an early June race here (when I had toe covers on my shoes) and just wore his Tri shorts - I heard a couple of comments "That guy is hardcore"...it really does depend on where you live. |
| 2014-01-15 4:17 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 What was it about the longer swims that you thought made them less of a contributor to fitness? Just couldn't hold form that long? Something else about them? As Ben mentioned, they are just harder to push beyond your limits. I mean...the last thing you want to do is bury yourself so deep that you're completely exhausted and gasping for air while still 100-500 yards from shore, in 10-40 feet deep water. That's what the wall is for at the pool. You're never more than 12 or 25 yards/meters away from the wall at all times. When I finish a pool workout, I usually come out pretty gassed. And there are times during the harder sets where I want to quit. I never really feel that way during or after and OWS. I suppose I could push myself that hard...but I don't. The fact that you have to tread water or keep swimming while resting makes a big difference (again...no wall or shallow area to stand up on during your rest intervals...if you're trying to do intervals in the OW). Also, how did you feel coming out of the water at Kona compared to other races (and is this the same approach you used to train for other races, or a new one to you)? I felt great. It was probably the race where I felt like I was using the least amount of effort. I was in a huge draft pack and if anything, I had to slow myself down to avoid running into feet. That's what wetsuits are for. I had an Oly 2 years ago. The race director announced in the morning that the water temp was 77.8 degrees, so you could use a wetsuit, but everyone will laugh at you. That's kind of how it is here...most people don't own one, or if they did, they would never think of bringing it to a race "just in case." A friend didn't have a wetsuit for an early June race here (when I had toe covers on my shoes) and just wore his Tri shorts - I heard a couple of comments "That guy is hardcore"...it really does depend on where you live. First time I swam Alcatraz RD was announcing the race divisions. When he got to the wetsuit division, he said "we abbreviate this to WS, which we call the wuss division....." |
| 2014-01-15 5:28 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Hey all - many thanks for the responses to my eleventy-three swimming questions... Ben, you're wrong - I'm never contentious or disagree. Yanti - also makes sense. And, for the record, 36k a week is still kind of, well… a TON of swimming. Jason and James: I guess "long" is a relative term (4x800 starts to feel like it "counts"), and I wouldn't want to feel the way I do after my fifth 100 at T minus whatever and be in the middle of a lake… btw, I looked up Janet Evans' old stuff on her workouts and such - holy carp! Those ladders (which she still espouses) are 3,500 of pain (although no rep is all that long by itself - to the earlier points of the conversation). Arend - what's a fish doing in a wetsuit at all? OK, off to the pool (at least until the ice is off Walden). Thanks again all - very much appreciated. Matt |
Thanks for the further explanation - makes a lot of sense (which is all I'm after). I do see the benefit of some longer stuff, but get your view on the relative balance in terms of amount and benefits derived. As for my heritage, I'm also a Scot and a wee Norse - so it's rare that I argue. 
| 2014-01-15 6:47 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
I forget specifics, but do remember seeing some of Evan's sets a couple years ago. Something to remember is how much faster she is than, well, about anyone we know. So "long" can change for her as she gets through it so much quicker. Some people here will literally take 2-3 times as long for an interval (and the entire set). A number might swim 2:00, but when I'm going ok that's somewhere between 150-175 for me. A 200 will be close to 2:30 for me, but 4+ min for that other person. Evans will be beyond 400 at that point. Can't remember exactly where it's from, but a big one I've done was 1 x 1500, 3 x 500, 5 x 300, 15 x 100. Did switch in 2 x 750 to start at times. Might bring it back in later if I can be really solid & consistent the next few months. |
| 2014-01-16 10:17 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Wow page 2?  . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? |
| 2014-01-16 10:21 AM in reply to: spudone |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? I may be doing a half marathon at the end of February. I did it last year, the weather completely sucked. |
| 2014-01-16 10:45 AM in reply to: axteraa |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? I may be doing a half marathon at the end of February. I did it last year, the weather completely sucked. I remember your photo - honestly, a HM in PEI in Feb, what were you thinking. |
I had planned to try for a PR at the beginning of March, but after holidays + sickness equally 4 weeks of inactivity I've now shelved that idea. Checked the HR before bed last night and it was down to 51....going to try and run on lunch and see what happens. Fingers crossed that things are back to normal.| 2014-01-16 10:49 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? I may be doing a half marathon at the end of February. I did it last year, the weather completely sucked. I remember your photo - honestly, a HM in PEI in Feb, what were you thinking. A better question might be why am I thinking of it again. |
| 2014-01-16 10:54 AM in reply to: axteraa |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? I may be doing a half marathon at the end of February. I did it last year, the weather completely sucked. I remember your photo - honestly, a HM in PEI in Feb, what were you thinking. A better question might be why am I thinking of it again. Mental stability in triathletes = needle in a haystack I'm pretty sick right now (not just in the head, unfortunately the other end too) ... thought it was food poisoning but still plagued with awful stomach cramps, afternoon fever and headache, and fatigue as well as utter apathy. HOWEVER ... should I feel like a human again anytime soon, I've got a solid race or two a month scheduled, the first being a fun training-day Oly with a friend in Perth. Two weeks later there's a super-fun-looking quaduathlon (Daffy Duck?) -- swim/bike/run/paddle/run. |
| 2014-01-16 11:23 AM in reply to: spudone |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? We have a HM in early March (had to bail on a late Feb HM as we're traveling, although the 32.000001 degrees, 20kt winds and driving rain was so much fun last year). First tri is probably the MA season opener in early May, although we have about a half dozen 5k and 10k races (and milers for the kids) in between those. I love spring running races! Not sure if early March counts as spring, but I'm mentally going with it... Did a 1,000 TT in the pool today at 1:34/100, so that's my current T-pace. Matches pretty well with the 3x100 method I tried a few weeks back - but is MUCH more hypoxic feeling! Still had some left in the tank, as I miscounted laps and it finished "early," but not much. Turns out I like to breathe to dang much. Odd that it's slower than almost any OWS last year but faster than I've ever swum that distance in a pool. Maybe my naked form (now there's a visual) is catching up with my wetsuit form? Well, I'll report back in about a month when I do this again - after a bunch of short stuff, of course! I might even learn how to do a flip turn. Matt |
| 2014-01-16 11:26 AM in reply to: IndoIronYanti |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by IndoIronYanti Mental stability in triathletes = needle in a haystack I'm pretty sick right now (not just in the head, unfortunately the other end too) ... thought it was food poisoning but still plagued with awful stomach cramps, afternoon fever and headache, and fatigue as well as utter apathy. HOWEVER ... should I feel like a human again anytime soon, I've got a solid race or two a month scheduled, the first being a fun training-day Oly with a friend in Perth. Two weeks later there's a super-fun-looking quaduathlon (Daffy Duck?) -- swim/bike/run/paddle/run. As a friend of mine who works a lot in Nepal has said, "There are two kinds of people: Those with parasites and those who don't yet know they have parasites." I hope it's just a relatively short viral thang and that you feel well soon. Matt |
| 2014-01-16 11:29 AM in reply to: axteraa |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? I may be doing a half marathon at the end of February. I did it last year, the weather completely sucked. And yet you still PR'd...... |
| 2014-01-16 11:30 AM in reply to: spudone |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? New Orleans 70.3 4/13. Although being on my 8th week of no running, that looks to be a very different experience than the one I signed up for..... |
| 2014-01-16 11:48 AM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? We have a HM in early March (had to bail on a late Feb HM as we're traveling, although the 32.000001 degrees, 20kt winds and driving rain was so much fun last year). First tri is probably the MA season opener in early May, although we have about a half dozen 5k and 10k races (and milers for the kids) in between those. I love spring running races! Not sure if early March counts as spring, but I'm mentally going with it... Did a 1,000 TT in the pool today at 1:34/100, so that's my current T-pace. Matches pretty well with the 3x100 method I tried a few weeks back - but is MUCH more hypoxic feeling! Still had some left in the tank, as I miscounted laps and it finished "early," but not much. Turns out I like to breathe to dang much. Odd that it's slower than almost any OWS last year but faster than I've ever swum that distance in a pool. Maybe my naked form (now there's a visual) is catching up with my wetsuit form? Well, I'll report back in about a month when I do this again - after a bunch of short stuff, of course! I might even learn how to do a flip turn. Matt Hey Matt - very nice work - the fishes may say otherwise, but I use my 1000TT (after about 2500 yards of other stuff to warm and open up) as my T-Pace as well. As to your pool times being slower than your OWS times, it seems that would point to the fact that you have work to do in at least a couple of areas - first being your turns (which you have already pointed out) I am in the flip turn camp as I think it allows you to better hold pace and form and actually translates to OWS better than open turns. The second is that I will bet that since you do a lot of OWS that you do a lot of your swimming looking forward too much - it is a bad habit that I developed a) through bad instruction 20 years ago and b) I OWS a lot as well and that seems to reinforce the bad habit. Arend I think a while back you said you have this habit as well? This past year I have worked hard on correcting that (as well as ditching the s-stroke developed from the same bad instruction) and it has got my OWS pretty close to my pool times, at least solo in flat water. My race times have only come down a little however, but not because of sighting or pacing issues I don't think. Instead we think it is because I have a rather long, glide-y stroke, and that does not work so well in chop or in a pack and as we all know the older you get the more people you have to swim through or around in a race. So my coach has me working on a quicker, slightly shorter stroke - interested to see how it pans out. I meant to post this a few days ago - but I am traveling so much that by the time I get in front of a real computer you guys are off to another topic - and they have all been great discussions recently! |
| 2014-01-16 11:51 AM in reply to: ChrisM |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? New Orleans 70.3 4/13. Although being on my 8th week of no running, that looks to be a very different experience than the one I signed up for..... Chris - was really sorry to read that you were still having foot issues, but glad to hear that you are working with pros to get it right. Stick with it - from experience it always seems like those things are never going to get better, and then they do with the right treatment. And then of course it is something else, so you have THAT to look forward to .... |
| 2014-01-16 11:53 AM in reply to: IndoIronYanti |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by IndoIronYanti Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? I may be doing a half marathon at the end of February. I did it last year, the weather completely sucked. I remember your photo - honestly, a HM in PEI in Feb, what were you thinking. A better question might be why am I thinking of it again. Mental stability in triathletes = needle in a haystack I'm pretty sick right now (not just in the head, unfortunately the other end too) ... thought it was food poisoning but still plagued with awful stomach cramps, afternoon fever and headache, and fatigue as well as utter apathy. HOWEVER ... should I feel like a human again anytime soon, I've got a solid race or two a month scheduled, the first being a fun training-day Oly with a friend in Perth. Two weeks later there's a super-fun-looking quaduathlon (Daffy Duck?) -- swim/bike/run/paddle/run. Aw, come on Yanti -you gotta stop getting sick! A quaduathlon? That sounds EXACTLY like the kind of races we should all be doing during the out-season! |
| 2014-01-16 12:00 PM in reply to: spudone |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? I have a fairly steady diet of trail races starting this weekend through late April. Most of them are under 7 miles, but I have one 10+ and one HM in there as well. I found out a while back that I somehow made the cut for the team I applied to (I guess they did not have enough moderately fast old dudes) and we are supposed to be getting our race list this week, so that may change things for me a bit, but all things being equal I would like to get my tri season kicked off a little earlier than usual this year. |
| 2014-01-16 12:21 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? I have a fairly steady diet of trail races starting this weekend through late April. Most of them are under 7 miles, but I have one 10+ and one HM in there as well. I found out a while back that I somehow made the cut for the team I applied to (I guess they did not have enough moderately fast old dudes) and we are supposed to be getting our race list this week, so that may change things for me a bit, but all things being equal I would like to get my tri season kicked off a little earlier than usual this year. . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? Congrats on making the cut! I'm also trying to start the season earlier this year - we'll see how that goes. What event will it be this weekend if you're on the roster? Matt |
| 2014-01-16 12:22 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Just a heads up re: a new Challenge half iron race in California, in Rancho Cordova up near Sacramento. Interesting..... |
| 2014-01-16 12:31 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Hey Matt - very nice work - the fishes may say otherwise, but I use my 1000TT (after about 2500 yards of other stuff to warm and open up) as my T-Pace as well. As to your pool times being slower than your OWS times, it seems that would point to the fact that you have work to do in at least a couple of areas - first being your turns (which you have already pointed out) I am in the flip turn camp as I think it allows you to better hold pace and form and actually translates to OWS better than open turns. The second is that I will bet that since you do a lot of OWS that you do a lot of your swimming looking forward too much - it is a bad habit that I developed a) through bad instruction 20 years ago and b) I OWS a lot as well and that seems to reinforce the bad habit. Arend I think a while back you said you have this habit as well? This past year I have worked hard on correcting that (as well as ditching the s-stroke developed from the same bad instruction) and it has got my OWS pretty close to my pool times, at least solo in flat water. My race times have only come down a little however, but not because of sighting or pacing issues I don't think. Instead we think it is because I have a rather long, glide-y stroke, and that does not work so well in chop or in a pack and as we all know the older you get the more people you have to swim through or around in a race. So my coach has me working on a quicker, slightly shorter stroke - interested to see how it pans out. I meant to post this a few days ago - but I am traveling so much that by the time I get in front of a real computer you guys are off to another topic - and they have all been great discussions recently! Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne? Thanks for this. The open turns really throw off my groove - I don't like them, but I don't know how to flip turn (and I've always been concerned that there's no AIR for a long time in a flip turn). So, ahem… Be it so resolved, I'm gonna have my 9 or 11 y.o. teach me how to do the dang things. I've noticed that my head comes up more when I get really short of breath (I try to keep it almost completely submerged most of the time, but when I start getting hypoxic - in the pool or ocean - my head tries to move toward the air!). I also will swim a bit more heads up in the melee that is a M45-49 start (a bunch of type A's who are starting the race like there's a gator behind them and they can win Kona by winning the swim start at a local sprint - FUN)… As per an earlier set of posts, I found that my race stroke rate is quite a bit higher than my pool or workout pace, and I think some of that is dealing with both the full contact and the chop. What is the s-stroke you mention? Does that reference moving your hand in an s-shape underwater (like sculling) or that your body moves in a serpentine manner? I've heard both mentioned as problems… I have read also read that the s-shaped stroke is a GOOD thing - but I'm in the "push the water the opposite direction you want to go" camp (and could be wrong there, as well). Thanks! Matt |
| 2014-01-16 12:34 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?
I love spring running races! Not sure if early March counts as spring, but I'm mentally going with it...
Me too! Had my one track workout of the week last night (I'm skipping the weekend track workout since I'll be in Vegas.) WU Then Monday I am doing a key marathon workout. A LONG depletion run. I think I am going to be cranky afterwards. |
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