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2011-12-12 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Question for Jorge,

I'm going to be travelling to visit family for the holidays and will be away from my bike for a week (8days).  What are your recommendations regarding the plan?  I don't think I'll have access to a bike (trainers, stationary, etc) so I'm planning on just running and hoping to get a swim or two in.  Should I just pick up with the plan where I left off when i get home?  Thanks!



2011-12-12 8:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
japewang - 2011-12-12 2:11 PM

Question for Jorge,

I'm going to be travelling to visit family for the holidays and will be away from my bike for a week (8days).  What are your recommendations regarding the plan?  I don't think I'll have access to a bike (trainers, stationary, etc) so I'm planning on just running and hoping to get a swim or two in.  Should I just pick up with the plan where I left off when i get home?  Thanks!

Yeah...unfortunately I have the same questions.

2011-12-12 8:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
japewang - 2011-12-12 1:11 PM

Question for Jorge,

I'm going to be travelling to visit family for the holidays and will be away from my bike for a week (8days).  What are your recommendations regarding the plan?  I don't think I'll have access to a bike (trainers, stationary, etc) so I'm planning on just running and hoping to get a swim or two in.  Should I just pick up with the plan where I left off when i get home?  Thanks!

Yeah I would do that. In a week you shouldn't lose much fitness; starting where you left off should be fine. When in doubt, you can always repeat the last week and go from there!

2011-12-12 9:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
ruazraz - 2011-12-12 10:17 AM

I am glad to hear that people are getting some serious results from the training plan.  For me, though, I was a little disappointed in my 20MP test results this morning.  I am sure it has nothing to do with the plan...probably it is me.  

Since I am VERY new to training I don't know where to start regarding trying to figure out why I'm not improving.  I have been following the plan religiously.  The workouts seem hard to me and at the end I am usually pretty spent.  For my 20MP test today I went as hard as I thought I could.  Near the end (18 minutes), I felt like I was going to die but, I tried to push a little harder.  So, when I compared my results from today's test to the one I did earlier and found they were essentially the same...I was very dissapointed.  Maybe I left something on the table this morning...but, it sure didn't feel like it.  I'm still feeling the effects after several hours.

I'm thinking that it may be that I am starting to get fatigued.  Since I am relatively new at this (training about 1 year) that I may not have a good base.  Anyway, I was a little discouraged.  But, I will press hard on the 5MP test and see what happens.  From there, I will continue the program.  It has been fun to challenge myself with the workouts and I will keep going.  Maybe the next test will be better!

Don't feel too disappointed! It is hard to tell what's your level starting the plan but the minimal improvement could be due to a a few variables:

1. learn to do the test properly - meaning your power curve pretty flat for the entire test or it is slightly lower at first and slightly higher at the end. Check you curve (or post it here) and we can compare. 

2. Properly fuel before and during the test - the 20MP is a pretty intense effort; if you are not properly fueled your results can be negatively affected.

3. Test rested - make sure you are as rested as possible before these tests, specially the 20MP.

4. Cooling - make sure when you test indoors, you have enough of a cooling system with fans, windows, etc.

In addition, if you are around week 7 of the plan then for some people it will be normal to not see as much improvements on your 20MP as the 1st portion was more geared toward improving the 5MP. Sure, most people will see gains on the 20MP just by increasing the 5MP but sometimes that is not the case. I am one of those who benefit less when doing VO2 max work, but as soon as I start focusing 100% on 20MP or CP, my power starts going up. 

So if you tested correctly and only saw minimal improvements, then don't feel disappointed just yet; the next half of the program should fix that! keep the consistency and hard work

2011-12-12 9:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
axteraa - 2011-12-12 4:58 AM

Put me in the "it works" club too! 

First 20' test was 232w (2.9w/kg)

Second 20' test done this morning at 256w! (3.2w/kg) which is beyond my wildest dream of what I would have done.

I was thinking 245w in my head as a target so I started there and was going to try to hold on. Got to 10' at 248w and still felt strong (I'm usually questioning my sanity at this point) so decided to bump up to 255. 4 mins later I still felt strong so upped to 265. Started to hurt after that but was still doing 280-290 for the last min or so. Last 5' was 272w which is only 1 watt below my 5' test from the first round of testing.

Thanks Jorge! 

Oh and thanks to my wife who came into the room around the 10' mark and opened up two windows beside me to help cool me (outside temp of -1C).

Awesome and thank double to your wife for opening that window!
2011-12-12 9:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
sicone - 2011-12-12 7:58 AM

Another one for the "It Works!" club (though mine is HR based).

Test 1: Ave speed for 30' test - 25.58mph, LTHR:168

Test 2: Ave speed for 30' test - 26.88mph, LTHR:173



2011-12-12 9:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Just did the 20 mp test.  First test I did 192 and this test I avgd 211 with a very flat power curve.  That's a 10% improvement and will take that. 
2011-12-13 5:38 AM
in reply to: #3935866


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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
JorgeM - 2011-12-12 9:06 PM

Don't feel too disappointed! It is hard to tell what's your level starting the plan but the minimal improvement could be due to a a few variables:

1. learn to do the test properly - meaning your power curve pretty flat for the entire test or it is slightly lower at first and slightly higher at the end. Check you curve (or post it here) and we can compare. 

2. Properly fuel before and during the test - the 20MP is a pretty intense effort; if you are not properly fueled your results can be negatively affected.

3. Test rested - make sure you are as rested as possible before these tests, specially the 20MP.

4. Cooling - make sure when you test indoors, you have enough of a cooling system with fans, windows, etc.

In addition, if you are around week 7 of the plan then for some people it will be normal to not see as much improvements on your 20MP as the 1st portion was more geared toward improving the 5MP. Sure, most people will see gains on the 20MP just by increasing the 5MP but sometimes that is not the case. I am one of those who benefit less when doing VO2 max work, but as soon as I start focusing 100% on 20MP or CP, my power starts going up. 

So if you tested correctly and only saw minimal improvements, then don't feel disappointed just yet; the next half of the program should fix that! keep the consistency and hard work

Thanks so much for the encouragement!! Based on what you said I think it may be a combination of factors. I will keep working and learning.
2011-12-13 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

JorgeM - 2011-12-12 10:06 PM

...

3. Test rested - make sure you are as rested as possible before these tests, specially the 20MP.

 

This is SO IMPORTANT!!! I got poor sleep the last two nights, and it showed this morning.  EPIC FAIL on the 20 min. test, barely held it above my CP value (my power was steady at my 20MP for the first 10 min, then turned into a steady decline I couldn't recover from).

One more data point proving that rest and recovery is just as important as killing yourself on the bike.

2011-12-13 11:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
I am also seeing improvement! The first 20 min test was an avg of 195 watts. My second test resulted in a 220 watts avg.! I was super excited to see the improvement. You can also put me in the camp of an early morning excerciser. I am on the bike no later than 5:10 AM and I have never taken the time to fuel. I am going to try something quick like fruit juice or gel.  My time is extremely limited in the morning. I will definetly try this before the 5 min CP test.    
2011-12-13 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Test complete.  Complete fail.  Lost 20 watts from last month test.  May have been tired from a couple night shifts at work.  Took a couple days off training to rest for test and that may have back fired, previous test I had trained pretty steady right up to test day.  Back to the drawing board! 



2011-12-13 8:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Holy frijoles!  First test-287 watt avg.  Tonight-303 watt avg.  At 15 minutes I wanted to quit, and at 20 minutes I almost hurled.  I must have done it right.  Jorge,  I love you, but I hate you.LaughingYell
2011-12-14 8:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Just finished my second 20 min. test. I set this up on the computrainer as a "race against" my last test. Started out at just below what my first test average was and built from there. 
The last two minutes I stared the clock down hoping it would tick faster. There was nothing left in the tank when I finished and think I found a new max h/r.

Results were 201 (1st)  211 today. 

2011-12-14 9:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
20 min test done. Went from 290 at first test to 299. Not as large of a gain a some others, but somethings working!!
2011-12-14 9:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

I am doing the heart rate version. When I test again should my LTHR be higher or lower? It is hard to track my progress using just heart rate compared to the other plan. How can I measure results to see how much better I am getting. I am on Week 5 now.

 

2011-12-14 9:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
mccollumtri - 2011-12-14 3:21 PM

I am doing the heart rate version. When I test again should my LTHR be higher or lower? It is hard to track my progress using just heart rate compared to the other plan. How can I measure results to see how much better I am getting. I am on Week 5 now.

 

I don't think you need to worry about your HR during the test. As for tracking whether you have improved, the only thing you have to go by is how much your average speed has changed.



2011-12-14 10:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

So I am a little late to the party, but figured I would jump in. Once end November got here I realized that it had been over a year since I had been on my bike. My last go at thre bike was when I DNFed a HIM after 20mi on the bike, due to mechanicals. That DNF was Nov 14th 2010.

I pulled the bike out and I have gotten in 5 rides, 2 outdoors and 3 ~50min spins on the rollers. Today I decided to jump to day 15 of the program (power) and go with a 20min test. I am going to try and follow the program, although I know some week swill be tough to get 4 rides in, but I should manage 3 every week.

Hope I see some of the improvement alot of folks are seeing already. Good luck to all and thanks to Jorge for putting this out there.

12/14     20min Test  Avg 256w 3.75w/kg

2011-12-14 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
qrkid - 2011-12-14 11:05 AM

So I am a little late to the party, but figured I would jump in. Once end November got here I realized that it had been over a year since I had been on my bike. My last go at thre bike was when I DNFed a HIM after 20mi on the bike, due to mechanicals. That DNF was Nov 14th 2010.

I pulled the bike out and I have gotten in 5 rides, 2 outdoors and 3 ~50min spins on the rollers. Today I decided to jump to day 15 of the program (power) and go with a 20min test. I am going to try and follow the program, although I know some week swill be tough to get 4 rides in, but I should manage 3 every week.

Hope I see some of the improvement alot of folks are seeing already. Good luck to all and thanks to Jorge for putting this out there.

12/14     20min Test  Avg 256w 3.75w/kg

So you've had 5 rides in the last year and are throwing down 3.75 w/kg.  That's awesome.  What were you doing before you took time off?  

2011-12-14 12:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
How do I measure speed on trainer? It is totally different than on the road. I am sure the program is working, but I am a numbers guy and want to make sure I am improving using the heart rate program. Guess I will know when race season comes around.
2011-12-14 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

mccollumtri - 2011-12-14 1:13 PM How do I measure speed on trainer? It is totally different than on the road. I am sure the program is working, but I am a numbers guy and want to make sure I am improving using the heart rate program. Guess I will know when race season comes around.

If you have a speed/cadence sensor on the rear wheel you will be able to measure speed.  This will not be accurate to outside speed, but can give you a benchmark from which to measure your progress.  

2011-12-14 2:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Is anyone balancing Barry P's 3:2:1 run and the winter cycling program.  What does your weekly structure look like?

Thanks



2011-12-14 3:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
mlanahan - 2011-12-14 2:15 PM

Is anyone balancing Barry P's 3:2:1 run and the winter cycling program.  What does your weekly structure look like?

Thanks

 

I am doing something similar.  I didn't start our with 3:2:1 but I have been doing it lately as Jorge's program starts to ramp up and it feels like the short runs are needed.

 I run 6 days a week, swim as much as possible, and do workouts 1 and 3 of Jorge's Winter Program.  This is what my workout looks like.

 

M - Run, Swim

T - Jorge's workout 1 , Run, Swim

W -  Run, Swim

T - Jorge's workout 3, Run

F - Run, Swim

S - Long Run

Su - Off



Edited by mrpetey 2011-12-14 3:41 PM
2011-12-14 3:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
This is my full intention. I'm in I think my fourth week of my Barry plan, at about 24mpw. I'm starting Jorge's plan this week. I did the power tests last week for a baseline. My plan is to do Jorge's workouts (1-3) on the short run days and the fourth on the off day of running.

The nice thing about the BarryP plan, I almost feel like I'm fully recovered by the time I get out of the shower. I don't have the lingering tired legs like I did when I only ran 3x a week, but longer/faster. I'm still learning to run slower, but I figure once I get into the meat of Jorge's plan, that will take care of itself.


mlanahan - 2011-12-14 2:15 PM

Is anyone balancing Barry P's 3:2:1 run and the winter cycling program.  What does your weekly structure look like?

Thanks

2011-12-14 4:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
rsmoylan - 2011-12-14 11:34 AM
qrkid - 2011-12-14 11:05 AM

So I am a little late to the party, but figured I would jump in. Once end November got here I realized that it had been over a year since I had been on my bike. My last go at thre bike was when I DNFed a HIM after 20mi on the bike, due to mechanicals. That DNF was Nov 14th 2010.

I pulled the bike out and I have gotten in 5 rides, 2 outdoors and 3 ~50min spins on the rollers. Today I decided to jump to day 15 of the program (power) and go with a 20min test. I am going to try and follow the program, although I know some week swill be tough to get 4 rides in, but I should manage 3 every week.

Hope I see some of the improvement alot of folks are seeing already. Good luck to all and thanks to Jorge for putting this out there.

12/14     20min Test  Avg 256w 3.75w/kg

So you've had 5 rides in the last year and are throwing down 3.75 w/kg.  That's awesome.  What were you doing before you took time off?  

From Dec 2010 through May 2011 I was running some, so not totally couching it. Moved near the beach in July and started  bodyboarding about 3x/week when there were waves. In November I started to run again and then at the end of Nov I pulled the bike out.

I saw that USAT Long Course Duathlon Champs (June 4th) are only about a 6hr drive from me, so that is what spurred the decision to dust off the bike and try to get back to training.

2011-12-14 4:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
bertgwen - 2011-12-14 4:59 PM This is my full intention. I'm in I think my fourth week of my Barry plan, at about 24mpw. I'm starting Jorge's plan this week. I did the power tests last week for a baseline. My plan is to do Jorge's workouts (1-3) on the short run days and the fourth on the off day of running. The nice thing about the BarryP plan, I almost feel like I'm fully recovered by the time I get out of the shower. I don't have the lingering tired legs like I did when I only ran 3x a week, but longer/faster. I'm still learning to run slower, but I figure once I get into the meat of Jorge's plan, that will take care of itself.
mlanahan - 2011-12-14 2:15 PM

Is anyone balancing Barry P's 3:2:1 run and the winter cycling program.  What does your weekly structure look like?

Thanks

 

Good luck with the juggling act, I hated to do it but I had to stop the 6x running because when combined with Jorge's plan and swimming, it was starting to take too much time away from my other life commitments.  Hopefully I can get back into it once the "real season" begins.

Here's what my schedule looked like while it lasted:

Sun: Rest (or you could do Day 4 of Jorge's Plan)

Mon: Swim, 3x Run

Tue: Jorge Day 1, 1x Run

Wed: Swim, 2x Run

Thu: Jorge Day 2, 1x Run

Fri: Swim, 2x Run

Sat: Jorge Day 3, 1x Run

Jorge's Day 1 for the week can be pretty intense, so if you want give your legs a break you could adjust the run program to make Jorge's Day 1 your rest day on the running plan.  Depends on whether you're OK working out 7 days a week.

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