Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open (Page 2)

The trick with a sport focus is maintaining that fitness once you put in the work while moving the focus to another sport. For example, when I was training seriously, my off season would look something like this:

Mid Sept - end Oct - off, unstructured training. Little swimming, bike commuting and run at least 3x/week for 30 minutes
Nov - Dec - run focus; run 6-7x/week, aiming for 60-80km/week, all easy with strides in Nov, add threshold runs in Dec, swim 1-2x/week, bike commute
Jan - Feb - swim focus, run 5-6x/week, aiming for 40-60km/week, mostly easy with a threshold run, swim 4-6x/week, at least 2500m each swim, bike commute
Mar - Apr - bike focus, run 5-6x/week, aiming for 40-60km/week, mostly easy with a threshold run, swim 2-3/week, at least 3000m each swim, bike 4-5x/week, 1-2 threshold, 1 VO2max, one tempo or long
May - return to balanced training

Shane

Another periodization resource:

http://provincialtriathloncentre.blogspot.ca/2009/04/micro-structur...

This is the link to the third article but the article links to parts 1 and 2.

Shane

Shane, bonus points for bringing in an article that references Carl Foster. I have worked with him at the university for a couple years and have been lucky to do so. He is truly one of the most intelligent people that I have worked with in sports on the physiology side. This study mentioned is one that I he has talked about in working with him, kinda ironic.

A couple things that I think should be taken.

There is no such thing as a catch up workout. You can do it, but it effects the entire program so really it will most likely do more hair then good.

Hard on hard days, easy on easy day. I think many triathletes float in the middle ground, hard enough not to be easy, easy enough not to be hard.

Elite athletes and amateurs operate on different levels, amateurs need to be aware of this and those 4 huge days might not be as beneficial as they think.

Hi,

I'd like to join if I may?

I'm 43 from London and I retired from playing a low level of football about 10 years ago. Since then I've taken part in one or two 10k runs and last year I entered my first mini sprint Triathlon.
I enjoyed the multi discipline training and I hope to enter at least one again this year.

As for training I'm starting to put together a training plan based on doing a sprint tri in May, focusing on the bike as I'm very weak in that area and can only get out over the weekend.

I was part of one of the mentor groups last year and found it both fun and informative.

Thanks - Tony.

Great discussion! I guess I have always subscribed to a more "standard" view of periodization, much the way Ben described it. Other than perhaps some time to focus on limiters in the "off-season", I've never done much in the way of block periodization. I'm curious as to the approach of some of the more experienced coaches in the group. Do you tend to have your athletes do more single-sport focused blocks in training?

Definitely agree with a catch up workout; this is something that one will often have to deal with when coaching and that is what to do when an athlete misses a workout. Often I simply tell an athlete that a missed workout is gone and not to worry about it but if it was one of the key workouts for the week, then you need to look at whether to move that workout to later in the week or the following week. If moving to later in the week, then it is also important that you adjust the rest of the week as you shouldn't just be dropping a key workout into the week but rather considering how this workout will impact that others around it and how the others around it will impact the key workout.

Hard days hard and easy days easy is something that we often hear and something that coaches need to be aware of as the tendancy is definitely to go a little too hard on easy days and a little too easy on hard days. Also, there is a tendancy to spread out the hard days in a training program and this is a trap you want to avoid. So instead of a threhold ride on Tuesday, threshold run on Wednesday, VO2max ride on Thursday with some swimming and/or easy running spread around, it is likely better (assuming your athlete can handle to hard workouts in one day) to group the threshold run with either the Tuesday or, IME more likely, the Thursday ride with Wednesday being an easy day. If you athlete can't handle two hard workouts in one day, then it is likely better to not have three days in a row of hard workouts and (for most triathletes) adjust by dropping the VO2max ride in favour of something a little less taxing.

Shane

Welcome Tony; glad to have you onboard.

I hope the discussion is of benefit to you,

Shane

For me it will depend on the athlete but it is pretty common that I will have athletes focus more on one sport for a block of time (generally 6-8weeks, occasionally longer). When I do this, while I will not drop the other sports from the training plan, they will scale back in terms of overall training load in the other sports.

For maintenance, I generally do something like the following:

For running, I will usually try to keep frequency up (at least 3 runs per, often more) but scale back on the long run (say 1:00-1:15 for a long run) and keep all running easy with some occasional strides thrown into the shorter runs.

For the bike, I will typically have an athlete focus on two key workouts per week, one around threshold and one around VO2max; generally these workouts will see a TSS in the 65-80 range depending on the athlete and how they recover from cycling workouts. If it is a swim focus TSS will typically be toward the higher end and if a run focus, toward the lower end.

For the swim, maintenace will usually be two key workouts with lots of time at and above T pace; fast 25s, 50s, 75s, 100s with solid rest and then some 100-200's at t pace with shorter rest.

Shane

Thanks Shane! Good stuff!!!

Speaking of TSS... Can you (any of you) recommend any good resources on a appropriate progression of training stress in the development of training plans?

I don't have anything that gives a great resource for looking at progression for training stress for training plans although you can make use of the tools in TrainingPeaks (Training Management Chart) or Race Day Apollo that attempts to model training stress.

In general, you are just looking at progressive overload and since this is easiest to measure on the bike with a powermeter, I will focus my answer there although Dr. Skiba discusses how to do the same with the swim and run. IME the swim modeling is less robust than the bike and run so I would typically do the swim by feel but the bike and run models work well in Apollo.

What I like to do when an athlete starts riding with power (or we start working together) is get at least a month of power files and then look at how the athlete responds to different workouts, where their strengths and weaknesses lie and to get a good handle on their CP. This will let me know how many TSS they have been accumulating and a good idea if they are responding well to the training or if they are digging too big a hole and needing lots of recovery. From there, I will basically look at testing (I prefer using the critical power model with a short and long test - typically 5 minutes and 20 minutes on separate days) and then focus workouts. If the athlete has been accumulating 300TSS/week then that will be our starting point and I would break those TSS up across their rides. So, if they are riding 3x, maybe 80, 90 and 130 for the three rides and we will see how they respond. If all goes well, then we will be building slightly with the TSS week over week until we test again.

If you have a good handle on an athlete's CP, then you should see solid training gains with a fairly consistent TSS/week with some build through the weeks.

It is also important to remember that TSS is not the definitive word in training stress; it provides some insight but when it comes to progressive overload, TSS should be a product of how you design the plan, not something that you plan for (if that makes sense).

Shane

Earlier someone (sorry, I forget who) posted that they would be interested in how to start coaching or starting a coaching business. I would be very interested in exploring this further so if anyone who has questions or thoughts on this would like to share, that would be fantastic.

Shane

I was one of them I'm sure. I don't have a college degree in the field, so I was looking to see if certification would be a direction to go. I'm sure there are pro's and con's with certifications. Other then that I'm not sure where to begin.

I started coaching last year. My background has zero certifications in the sport of triathlon and to be honest I do not know if I will ever pursue one. But I do have a bachelors in exercise and sport science, i have worked under 2 coaches, worked with other coaches, I train in madison, Wisconsin, one of the biggest and strongest triathlon communities around. i consider myself a student of the sport.

What I did was simply make a post here on BT. Hey guys this is what I am about, what I want to do, and my background. If you are interested PM me, I now am working with 4 athletes and learn just as much working with them as they are learning from me. I don't believe any coach should be validated by what they have to their name in certifications, but rather results.

I started with a vision and a plan. Start small and work off that. I work off word of mouth, my reputation in the community, and what I post online. I make it very clear that I truly believe a good relationship needs to be formed and trust needs to be had between coach-athlete for anything to work. I have 4 athletes right now and probably have talked with 10 others, I do not take everyone. I have no applications, no questionnaires, I go off email conversation. If I think it will work then I offer a free trial. That is how I do my coaching, everyone is different it is just how I roll.

Back to your original Q. Certifications will give you basic information to form a school of thought, you can also do this by reading books, coaches blogs, etc. However, the networking and discussion you can have at a certification course IMO can be much greater the the material you are presented.

Find your coaching methodology
Try it on yourself see the results
Read material, talk to coaches.
Maybe mentor an athlete and build off that
Take on more athletes, see what results you get
Continue this process

Shane maybe you can give more feedback on here but I just want to post what I do with my athletes, others can post what they do with theirs or give feedback on what I do with my athletes.

Goals: I talk with each athlete and develop short and long term goals, expectations and lay a path of how to reach those goals. It is key in this process that I have a firm understanding of their background in the sport and the goals laid out are reasonable to reachable.

Training Programs: This is customized to the individual your paces, your watts, your numbers. This does not mean that I write every single session catered to you, an easy 30 minute jog can be given to everyone. It is the placement of each session and the development over time (more on this on another post), but the just is that everyone plan is unique to them.

Communication: I open all forms of communication, except phone calls must be planned. So email, FB, twitter, text, etc are all fair game 24/7. I try to talk to each athlete as much as I can. I go on the 24 hours rule, all responses within 24 hours. I am honest and if I don't know the answer I search for it. I always give the reasons my methods as well.

Newsletter: I am starting this month with a newsletter to my athletes each month. It will include content such as how everyone is doing/racing, a good training meal: pre, post, etc. Training tips, workout of the month, exercise/stretch of the month. I also am asking each athlete to submit one question per month and I will answer the best question. I am hoping this and a future FB page helps me get my athletes under one umbrella, buy into my programs a bit more, and become part of the "team"

Nutrition: I offer diet and race day nutrition advice, guidelines, etc. I am not an RD so I refuse to write nutrition programs, but I do offer my knowledge based on my educational background.

Racing: I help develop a pre race plan, and a race debriefing post race.

Feedback: I give athletes as much feedback as I can whether it is on their training sessions in TP, races, how they are developing, etc. I am trying to constantly keep them engaged with me.

I am also thinking about developing an blog and FB page specific to my coaching and team of athletes.

I know I mentioned it early on... As I mentioned in my bio, in addition to being certified as a coach, I own a spinning/fitness studio. The studio is doing pretty well, but the coaching end of the business has been slower to get going, and I struggle with figuring out the best way to build a coaching client base.

Part of the problem for me, personally, is that I'm not "self-promotional" by nature... Guess maybe I need to get over that a little if I want to build a coaching business!

My Race Log

There are certainly pros and cons to certifications but unless one has a background in coaching or a exercise physiology background, then I would say that certification should be viewed as a critical element of developing your coaching practice. One issue with certification is that many see the certification as an end of the process but it is really near the beginning of becoming a coach.

One of the issues with coach education is that the material that is presented, even if it well developed to start with, will be coloured by the presenter so you will often (IME) hear many training myths presented as fact during certification courses. Hopefully coaches are aware that they should not take everything they hear as gospel and do research beyond what is presented in the classroom to further inform their practice. I have spoken to too many coaches who basically are working from The Triathlete's Training Bible to their athletes which has many flaws and should be used sparingly, if at all, as a resource for coaches.

An additional obstacle in the US is that USAT has developed an application process for Level 1 (which I think is very positive as it should help to ensure that certification is being delivered primarily to those who are interested and have been doing some coaching) so it is not enough to be interested in coaching but you must also be involved in coaching in order to be selected for the course.

This fits nicely with what I have recommended for several years to those who are interested in coaching which is to first get your feet wet by finding a triathlon club (my preference is one with juniors and not just age groupers but that's not always possible). If this is not possible, then perhaps a swim team or masters swim group, bike club and x-country/track at a local high school. Ideally these situations should be where you can work with an established coach and use this to find out whether or not you like coaching and if what is involved with triathlon coaching is truly a passion of yours.

If you find, after a few months of working with athletes in person is something that you enjoy, then I would seek out a triathlon coach who would be willing to act as a mentor to you. At this point, assuming that you are interested in individual coaching, see if you can find one or two athletes who would be willing to work with you for a season. This should be free or very cheap (at most cover any costs to you) and work with them designing a plan, following workouts, providing feedback, developing race plans, etc. Try to make what you do with these athletes mirror as closely to what you would do when you have paid athletes and get a feel for the demands on your time so that you can set a reasonable cap on the number of athletes you will work with.

As you are working with these athletes, I would begin applying for coaching certification and use what you have been doing to support your application. Hopefully you are accepted into a course and are able to work through and complete your certification.

Basically for those who are looking at coaching, unless you have extensive coaching background, I would plan on at least two years from when you start coaching until the point at which you start taking paid athletes.

Shane

I have an athlete profile that I have athletes complete to provide much of this information and then we will have a discussion from this point regarding the details provided. Since many of the athletes I am coaching have been involved in the sport for a while, they typically have very reasonable goals and are able to provide a great deal of information regarding previous training and racing.



I do the same; I have workout templates but no training plan templates. I look at each athlete each week, what they have done, where they are going, any schedule limitations, etc and then develop their weekly plan. This is one of the reasons why I strongly recommend that when a coach is setting the maximum number of athletes they plan to work with that they err on the side of caution; individual coaching is time intensive.



Communication should never (IMO) be limited between athlete and coach; I think that planning phone calls is reasonable simply because I am often not available to take a call but beyond that, there are no limits on communication.



I have a FB page from my coaching and a twitter feed which I use fairly often but always end up falling behind how much I would like to use it. I have a hard time sending things out just to send them out so if there isn't anything that I feel has value for my followers, then I will be quiet for a while. I also have a blog on my website but that doesn't get updated as much as I would like; my goal for this is to have at least two updates per month for 2014 and I have a series of topics that I want to present and have set deadlines.



Pretty similar on all these.

Great post Ben, thanks for sharing.

Shane

If you can do it, I would say that gradual is the way to go on this. I started slow with two athletes in my first year of ScotiaMultisport (2007), then I think I had four in my second year and five in my third. From there, things grew and I was typically full (eight athletes) although I would have periods where I would have some athletes leave and a few months before I would have their spot filled. At this time I was also working as the youth/junior coach for Nova Scotia so I wasn't really actively pursuing additional athletes (limited FB/Twitter posts, website was out of date) as I was very busy with the kids so for 2012 I think I typically had 4 or 5 athletes.

Since I had to step down from the youth/junior position in January 2013 since my son was due in August this past summer, I focused some more efforts on coaching and also had several athletes approach me regarding coaching. The end result is that as of November I had all of my spots filled for 2014 and have had several inquiries from athletes that I have had to turn away through December and into January.



This is something that I constantly struggle with; I am a coach first and businessman a distant second but the business part is something that I am trying to do better with.

I once got an email from a prospective athlete that started with, from looking at your website, I'm not sure that you are still coaching...

Shane

To the point in bold; I agree and this is one reason that I think that most people who are considering coaching should consider pursuing certification. Although I think there are exceptions, basically based on education or experience, for most, I would encourage certification.

To the italics, I have doubt all the time and I feel that when a coach stops having doubt that they will stop developing as coach. This doubt leads me to constantly question my practice, stay up to date on research, review my athlete's training cycles and ask what I could have done to better prepare them for race day.

Shane

Excellent point. You as a coach should constantly be looking for new evidence, data, results, what others are doing etc. Methods from 20 years ago have altered and changed. As a coach you should stay up to date on all of this while constantly evaluating your school of thought.

I also think when athletes think what their coach does, this part is often forgotten about. You are not just paying your coach for the training program, that is a small fraction into what the coach does to put you on the best track possible for success.

I wanted to touch on racing distances and % of FTP.

Joe Friel says that HIM's should be races at 75-85% of FTP, IM at 65-75% of FTP and it seems many when training race within this window and think it is the way to train. But what if your fitness does not allow you to race at even 65% of FTP, what if you are fit enough and can ride at 80% of FTP, how do you know this? I think a lot of coaches lay out programs that use numbers within these percentages and fail to think the athlete may or may not be able to use these ranges of numbers.

How do you find out? Look at past training logs, what did they say about the ride, how did they feel? How hard did they ride their last race, how was the run? All of these questions should be asked and all rides should be reviewed over time to really nail down where an athlete should ride.

Anyone have any input to add on this?