Parenting (Page 2)

Oh, sure, there are plenty of people who think that having winners and losers among children is a bad thing......you know that.  There are so many young people who have been taught, as another poster said about a temporary employee, "but I'm trying my best".  The truth is, sometimes when yu try your best it just isn't good enough, and you have to work harder to get better, that's life.

I'm happy when my kids win because they are happy.  But the truth is, I'm happier when they lose and I see the determination to try to be better the next race, or the next math test, or the next whatever....those are the lessons that will see them through rough times as adults. 

Sure, give participation awards, because getting out there and mixing it up, no matter what the activity or endeavor, is worthy of acknowledgment.  But the idea that everyone who tries is a winner, and there are no losers, a concept that has made it's way into the consciousness of raising children, especially in our school systems, is just plain wrong and a disservice to our kids.

Isn't this just another version of the 'Tiger Mom' book that was released to much controversy last year?

Raise your kids to be polite, hardworking and kind. Some people are naturally competitive, while others are not. Help them to find the qualities they have and improve them.  We learn the most through failure and mistakes. The ability to get back up after a failure is more important to me than winning all the time.

I think having a healthy drive to be competitive is good. It puts pressure on yourself and others. If, however, it gets to a point where you are a 'failure' if you don't win or it becomes all consuming, then we've gone too far. There's a balance between this and my parents, sports teams and school experiences taught me this well.

As a college admissions professional, I see the result of pushing these kids so hard that by the time they get to us, they are either burnt out or completely dependent on their parents for everything.

This article says it all for me: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-you...

I don't think it is at all. I think the article quoted by the OP has an obnoxious title (Raising a Winning Child), but the actual book is a compilation of a bunch of information about studies about children who are competitive or not, who win or don't. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but it's very informative. I think a lot of people in this thread are jumping to conclusions without having read the book?

I've never been a very competitive person, and my husband is extremely competitive. This difference comes into play a lot with how we parent our children - we have a lot of arguments about how to handle academics, sports, pushing the kids, etc. It's nice to read some well-researched information about why and how we're wired to be competitive or not, and how parenting comes into play. My kids don't have to be the best at everything, but I want to raise them to at least try new things and persevere, and so far this book speaks to some of those issues.

I read "Nurtureshock" by the same authors a few years ago, and it was one of the most interesting books I've read on parenting to date. These two know their stuff, and they have the best interests of kids at heart. I don't think they're attempting to write a book about pushing your kids too much - that's not what it is at all.

That's exactly right.  The first thing people jump to is the idea that parents push their kids too hard......that's mostly crap.  For the most part, our society doesn't push kids enough anymore.  The notion of the pushy parent who makes their kid compete even when the kid doesn't want to and burns them up is a tired one.  Sure, those parents exist, but they are few and far between and a very small minority.

The problem doesn't lie with parents who enjoy watching their kids succeed and support them in any way possible.....the problem lies with parents content to let little Johnny sit on his arse all day playing video games and not becoming involved and engaged with some activity that actually will help nurture and grow them.

Yup.

That one statement in the interview about putting kids in a position to win seemed a little outside of many of the other statements that were made in the interview.  In other questions they bashed the concept of soccer games without scores and everybody getting a trophy.  I think perhaps they meant more to avoid a situation where your child is doomed to fail.  For example, if my daughter wanted to try basketball for the first time, I'm not going to set her up to try out for the select teams.

I push my kids a bit, but they are free to try new stuff.  When the new YMCA "season" starts the kids can pick any sport that's at the Y.  The "only at the Y" clause is more of a logistical one, we have three kids and I work 24hr shifts, if we didn't do that we would have to break the time and space continuum.  Whatever they try they have to finish the season.  They can't play two games and quit.  Example, two of my kids play violin.  One likes it and excels, the other does ok but he's not really into it.  He understands that he's going to see it through until the end, but then he can try something else.  He's talking a different instrument, a guitar so he can "rock out".  It's good to teach your kids to be winners, but sometimes that includes teaching them how to lose.

Not so sure about that, at least not in my experience. Granted that experience has been limited to coaching youth athletics for the past 20 years or so.

I agree with this approach.

I think a big part of the issue is for the parent to get their own bias out of the way when it comes to their kids. Make it about them not you. I don't want to do too much bashing here but one of my parents felt they didn't get enough family time in their childhood so they decided my siblings and I would value evening family time over activities. This meant no organized sports or classes of any kind were allowed. Now I have no skills so I have to compete in triathlons.

The other obvious problem is the old high school hero whose kid has to live up to their "career" or go further and accomplish what they did not.

My wife and I have agreed to leave all options open to our kids but once they pick something they will need to work hard and stick with it for a reasonable amount of time. One bad game, missed goal or flubbed piano recital won't be an excuse to quit. Course, I have no kids and BT has taught me this means my opinion is wrong and irrelevant.

I think being open, adaptable and reasoned as a parent will go a long way. Along with having a good understanding of your spouses views on parenting beforehand. My wife and I discuss this stuff all the time so hopefully we will be able to maintain a team approach to the parenting when that bridge comes, obviously we will disagree, but hopefully not in front of the kid. 

And my experience has been liimited to raising 5 athletic kids and probably watching 20-30 different sports teams and their parents from t-ball to High School athletics.......and the last 3 years watching and helping coach (in a mostly support/helping role) kids in the upper 1% nationally in swimming, running, and triathlon .....I couldn't imagine a greater bunch of kids and parents.

So yeah, I can see how our experiences would lead to our opinions.

Agreed. Add in that parents and coaches can have vastly different takes on the same experience and it's easy to see how people can be so disparate in their views. Congrats on your kids' success.

I'm not a parent but I'm the grown kid of a parent.  My parents never pressured me to compete and never made me feel like I had to live up to lofty expectation.  Somehow, I turned out very type A.

I'd say I'm middle of the road as far as being competitive with others.  I like racing and I like winning, but I get over the bummer pretty quickly when I don't place as I'd hoped I would among other competitors.

The thing that does kill me and cause me undue stress and anxiety and always has is the competition within myself.  What everyone else is or isn't doing is not a big deal to me but when I'm not hitting every goal and expectation I set for myself it drives me crazy.  If I'm not 100% on my A game for everything from work, to training, to being a good daughter/spouse/cat's mom, to having a clean house, to having every daily task done to perfection, I beat myself up and this is the biggest thing I have to work on in life.

The point is that if you think you're saving your kids undue stress by focusing more on personal best versus competition with others, think again.  Striving for personal best can be just as stressful if not more.

Do you have a twin sister?

Are you a Virgo?  Cause I'm like that too.

I assume were not really talking about the article now, because where's the fun in that.   But I think the types of situations they were suggesting were not really "in your face."  For instance, Noelle, while you didn't feel pressure I bet you were given the chance/supported in doing different things that would hone your ability to assess your skills and improve yourself.     Did your folks allow/encourage you to join groups (girl scouts, whatever) and take classes (especially when you're little and not in school like art or music classes) and, as you got older, involve yourself in projects or have a job.   My interpretation of the article/interview is that they are talking about putting you kids in situations where they can improve, have better awareness of their skills, change gears if needed, etc.

Earlier was an example of taking on wood working as adult.   Yes, there is no contest for the best piece or any sort of evaluation, or trying to sell an item for instance.  But just being engaged in something you are not necessarily good at, trying to do it, is what they are talking about.   So yes, even competing with yourself.  Now I do think they are involving an element of taking those new skills (self awareness, etc) into group settings in order to test them.  But since as adults we do that all of the time, you don't need to force it.

It would be equally problematic if a child was allowed to only do what they were good at, in a controlled setting.  Even if they were competing and winning all the time (super rare I'd think, but it probably happens with future elite athletes) they aren't learning anything.  It's like those two little girls who run endurance races.   They are very good, they are "competing", but they fall apart when faced with challenges and cannot apparently adapt.  That is not success, despite winning.   A successful person is flexible, wins somes, loses some, makes changes, tries again.

That's what I think they're saying, if anyone cares.   It's probably an interesting book.

I've told my son that if he doesn't break one of his swim club's 8/U records (currently held by Ricky Berens), he should just quit swimming altogether.  He's still got a couple of years, so we'll see.

Why does he need two years? 

Slacker!

He'd have a lot less drag in the water without the underwear on his head.  

No, I'm a Capricorn but Virgo and Capricorn are very similar and notorious for being over acheivers.  I dated a Virgo once.  When one of us would clean, the other would go back and do it over the "right" way.

I think we can be the perfect parent but we really have less control over their outcome than we think. Apart from keeping my son safe and providing good and challenging experiences for him, what is important for me, as he gets older, is to preserve a good relationship. One with trust. And what is most important is for me to manage my life in a way that allows him to not worry about me. I am lucky to have married a hard working faithful husband that is a fantastic role model. My son has a stable, loving home life. 

The rest is up to him. Sink or swim. 

Update: destroyed the 7 and under field at the meet this weekend in free, back and fly as the only 6yo there.  He's on the path.

If he's six it may be too late for him to build the big engine.  What did you have him doing when he was 18 months to 2 years old?  If he wasn't on a regular program he'll be playing catch-up.

He's been in the system for two years.

And we finally got the 3yo with a gymnastics coach raised in the Communist Bloc.