Rush Limbaugh rips Chevy Volt (Page 2)

We don't but that's a whole other topic

Getting back to the VOLT, this NY Times article doesn't have a lot of positive stuff to say about the Volt either.  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/opinion/30neidermeyer.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&ref=opinion&adxnnlx=1280512977-73DBs+HtMvozL6/98h+njA

It appears you responded to the picture without actually reading a word that I posted?

I wish more cars were as simple and effective as the T-Rex.  These should cost around $15k, run a 600cc motor and seat 4.  Gas mileage would great and if they were limited to a top speed of 65 mph all would be great.

The point it, we don't need 3500 lb cars if our quest is to be more efficient.  If cars weighed less, we wouldn't need to keep adding more safety features and thus snowballing the more weight and less efficient problem.

That's just silly. 

If you have a family of 6 are you going to jam them into a Fit?  What if you are a painter or plumber?  You need a bigger vehicle for this.  Or maybe you tow a trailer.  Or you need to get to job sites that have rough roads.  You live in the mountains.  You are taller than 6'3".

You simply cannot do any of these things with a skateboard sized Honda Fit.

It would have to be my only car at $40k.  Both of mine together cost only a few grand more than that.

Edited by TriRSquared 2010-07-30 1:24 PM

I am 6'6" and I do find it ironic though I can fit into a honda civic and drive it but there are many SUVs I tested out that I can not drive because of my height.  Maybe I did my own fit test on the wrong SUVs but then again most people I know who drive them are 5'0" - 5'3".

When I did buy a car I bought a Nissan because even the Chevy Salesmen could not find a way for me to be able to drive the biggest car Chevy makes.

the Volt makes little to no financial sense when gas is $2.75/gallon, unless you believe 99.7% of all climatologists, or you think that gas might be more expensive in the future.

As an engineer- I think GM nailed it.  It's an electric car... that you can actually go on a long trip with.  They've got the best of both worlds.

Wouldn't be the 1st time that I disagreed with Rush Limbaugh. 

I'm with Dan on this one.  At the moment the Volt is a luxury item, the same way a Jaguar is a luxury item.  No one needs one, it's for people who want to display their values (ie their environmentalist creds) and have the money to do so, just like the first autos were when they came out.  The first cars were something like $3000-$4000 a piece at a time when the average annual income was about $750.  But as they caught on technologies were advanced, manufacturing was streamlined and eventually the cost of this new technology came down to where everyone could afford a Model T.  The same thing will happen with the Volt I think.  Right now it's a niche market but eventually technology will catch up, competition will intensify as market share grows, economies of scale will begin to come into play and eventually everyone will be able to afford an electric car.

Edited by drewb8 2010-07-30 2:49 PM

^^^This^^^

Size doesn't ever mean being able to fit. I can't fit in a Toyota / Lexus product no matter what I adjust. But a Mini Cooper is fine. I also bought a Nissan because I easily have the headroom I need.

And as for " let the market decide", I agree with Marvanett's horse arguement.

Edited by pitt83 2010-07-30 2:51 PM

Didn't GM already try this with the EV1? Good luck finding one of those on the road now.

They did. In a lilmited release market. You also could only "lease" the car and not own it.

The EV1 failed because of the very arguments being presented against the Volt. Without some guarantee that the battery will last (hence the lease and not own risk-mitigation set in place) and some kind of financial incentive (it too was quite expensive), this electric car failed miserably. Truth be told, it was an engineering success.

Yeah, that's true, and you could be right, it could end up being the next Edsel, although I don't think the EV1 was scrapped for lack of demand, it was scrapped before it even had a chance to have a lack of demand if I'm remembering right.

My sense though is that the market for a viable electric car is bigger now since the concerns about climate change, higher and higher gas prices, energy independence and the unsavory places that supply alot of our oil, etc are more front and center than when the EV1 came out.  Just my hunch, not really based on anything.

Edited by drewb8 2010-07-30 3:02 PM

Ah, gotcha.

I still say diesel > electric until battery tech comes around to offer a usable trip distance. Also, cars are WAY too heavy these days. This is due to safety regulations and fickle consumers. There's little reason a compact/small five-passenger car should weigh nearly two tons. SUVs are even worse.

If I were to buy a true economy car, I too would go diesel. I have Nissan Rogue which gets 23mpg mixed. My friend in the UK has the exact SUV (called Qashquai there) in diesel which gets 46. I can not get that power plant here in the US for no good reason as it is emissions compliant here as well as the UK.

Volvo C30 has the exact same distribution.

I'd trade my C30 in for the diesel version in a heartbeat.

The EV1 was a test, they never tried to mass-produce or mass-market it.  As others have said, it was lease only, so it's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the Volt/Leaf.  The battery on the Volt is a usable distance for most Americans as the average work commute is well under 20 miles each direction.  You can go to & from work, hit the grocery store & dry cleaners on your way home & still have a charge left when you roll into the driveway.  Is it workable for everyone?  Of course not, but no car is.  That doesn't make the Volt(or the Leaf) an impractical car to make.

I've seen lots of those types of vehicles - personally I'd go for an Atom.  But the USA = Land of Giants so you're stuck with the sizes of cars on the road, and they're not going to get much smaller. Even if the US moved to Euro size/models you'd be screwed.

And my comment about the f150s/400 hp mustangs isn't that there's no one that NEEDS them, my point was MANY people who do NOT need them buy them anyway. I know many singles or couples that own big trucks that never leave pavement or tow anything but they are happy with their choice. People will buy the Volt even if it's not the perfect/financial/sensible choice, same reason people buy Apples <ducks>.

Diesel is not a good choice for cars because it is needed for heavy trucks.  If you increase demand for diesel with cars, the price will skyrocket due to no good heavy truck alternatives.

I was just talking to my Wife about this today as we were driving home from the casino about 80 miles I guess that would have taken me 8 hours in a volt lol even a poor Biker on a hand me down  could have rode it and still had time to make supper. I plan to do this research and post it here on BT but a few things to consider.
1. how much power does it take to charge the Volt? In KWH (kilowatt hours)
2. what is the price of electric power on average  per KWH (look at your last electric bill).
3 How many miles per KWH are you getting.
4. what is the cost per mile?
Now do the same computations for a compatible car like the Ford Focus.
Next ask the infrastructure questions
1. What is the capacity of my local Electrical service, power plant, distribution network ect?
2. if say 1/3 of all consumers converted to the Volt what would the increase in electrical consumption be?
3. can my electrical service provider handle that increase?
4 would more power plants need to be built?
and at last lets do a comparison to the price of fuel I spend vs the electrical power I will consume if I switch?
and when we need to build more power plants to make the power to charge the car batteries what will happen to green house gas emissions? As i said i will be doing this study soon.
I wonder how many of the green energy pro electric car people ave even thought of these questions I also wonder if the President of the United States who drove said car 10 feet today has considered these questions?

well those are really good questions actually.   I know some people are against public works projects but really preparing the system to handle these things would not be a bad public works project plus it would help put people back to work.

I have read that an electric car can run at $0.02 / mile. I have not heard or read about necessary grid improvements to make recharging infinately viable. Good point.

My cousin has a Tesla and electricity producing solar panels.  And he still sells electricity back to the local utility.

THAT is how electric cars make sense.

Edited by pga_mike 2010-07-31 8:32 AM

Total cost for the system?  And in the end, you can drive to the next town and back... that's about it.

Exactly!  It would be awesome to turn all the interstate highways into big slot car tracks which supply power while your electric cars are using them.  Charge a toll for those roads to help pay for it over time. 

ALSO!!!  Make sure there is a national standard for charging before each company starts doing their own proprietary crap, forcing the consumers to be stuck with one company.

Tesla cars have much greater range, at least according to their specs on the Tesla website.

245 miles per charge on the Roadster, and 300 miles per charge on the Model S.

Of course, they cost a lot more, too.

My BMW went from Indiana to the Panhandle of Florida with 1 refill and a 1/3rd of a tank left in 10ish hours about 30ish MPG.  What electric can match that?

And I agree with you...getting to deduct your interest on your mortgage only makes buying a house more expensive...the cost of a house is inflated because of the demand for housing increased because it is artifically stimulated.    You will find that I am consistent on this issue.

It also makes owning a home a political football - hence the f-ing mess our economy is in lead by overconsumption of housing and other goods.  

I don't think owning a car should be a political issue...others compared this to keeping your horses when the model-T was introduced - not apples to apples.    The model T was successful when it was affordable; thus creating demand.   Buying a 41K vehicle using a tax credit funded by monies borrowed from China is not sound.   Like I said, I make a good living, I would never pay 41K for a depreciating asset.  

Edited by Blueraider_Mike 2010-07-31 11:49 AM

Diesel's prices have been much steadier than their unleaded colleague, fwiw.  Plus, you have to consider that heavy trucks/semis are starting to pack on batteries to become giant hybrids because they can sustain the weight of the batteries better - in other words, the batteries make up a significantly smaller weight addition percentage-wise - so their fuel efficiency is actually on the upswing.  It's also worth noting that the price of diesel in Europe(before taxes) isn't a whole lot different there than here, and they have a much, much higher concentration of diesel vehicles.  I haven't even mentioned biodiesel entering the market either.

Diesel fuel supply isn't an issue even with a massive switchover from unleaded over the next 20 years, in part because it's the same companies supplying both fuels.  If diesel takes off, they simply switch the percentage of oil they're using to make diesel v. unleaded & keep raking in cash.  Its 6 of one, half a dozen of the other to them.