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The refs give the Saints a win (Page 2)
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 2013-11-18 11:22 AM in reply to: JoshR |
Master  1585    Folsom (Sacramento), CA |  Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a winOriginally posted by JoshR Originally posted by flip18436572 Originally posted by JoshR As a fan of a team who is penalized on a weekly basis for incorrect calls, I think that hit was borderline high. You can't hit a QB above the shoulders and in real time it looks like his neck is being destroyed. But, just because the lineman that hit the QB in the chest with his arm that is larger and stronger than the QB's leg, is not the problem or error of the lineman. I understand that we don't want players hurt because of bad or intentional illegal hits. That hit was neither. If we are getting all technical, Brooks' arm does make contact with Brees' helmet. I would count that as hitting the head. I don't agree with the call, but I can see how it is technically correct. These crap calls happen all the time and I believe all 15 yd penalties should be reviewable. Bringing out my own gripes, look at the sack of Matt Ryan last week by Michael Bennett. Bennett gets pushed to the ground at Ryan's feet and grabs his ankles, tripping him up. This is called as hitting the QB below the knees, aka the Brady rule. Instead of a sack it's a 15 yd penalty. Or how about the TB vs Sea game where Earl Thomas plays textbook coverage and get's the INT. Ref's throw a flag for pass interference and instead of a turnover, the buc's score a play or two later. Pete Carroll sent it into the league for review and they league determined that there was no pass interference. Even just yesterday in the Min vs Sea game, Richard Sherman was called for PI on a slight jersey grab that landed about 20 yds beyond the receiver. Usain Bolt couldn't have caught that one if he had been unimpeded. I don't know why the officials would call PI against SEA on a play when there wasn't any considering the number of plays each game they could legitimately call it. |
| 2013-11-18 11:26 AM in reply to: mr2tony |
Pro 9391   Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by mr2tony Originally posted by tuwood Being Nebraska fans, you and I should have more issues with college football than NFL football. As in, I have an issue with the lack of a rule that gives Nebraska a 21-point lead before the game starts due to the fact that they're just going to give the other team 21 points in turnovers every game. Or something similar. Why haven't they made that rule yet? Total bunk. Originally posted by uclamatt2007 The NFL is starting to feel like the NBA. There is such little talent difference between most teams that many games come down to who wins the coin flip on a handful of key penalties and plays. Pass interference and holding calls can be made on almost every play so the games seem to be often decided on the arbitrary times they are or are not called. Of course, I am going on hour 7 of football today so it isn't like the NFL is losing money on it. You just described why I have pretty much lost all interest in the NFL. I occasionally watch games, but they're just not fun for me anymore. College has it's issues as well, but I get so much more enjoyment out of watching the games. lol, tell me about it. I was at the game saturday and I can surely get behind this rule. |
| 2013-11-18 11:29 AM in reply to: uclamatt2007 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by uclamatt2007 Originally posted by mr2tony Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by uclamatt2007 The NFL is starting to feel like the NBA. There is such little talent difference between most teams that many games come down to who wins the coin flip on a handful of key penalties and plays. Pass interference and holding calls can be made on almost every play so the games seem to be often decided on the arbitrary times they are or are not called. Of course, I am going on hour 7 of football today so it isn't like the NFL is losing money on it. You just described why I have pretty much lost all interest in the NFL. I occasionally watch games, but they're just not fun for me anymore. College has it's issues as well, but I get so much more enjoyment out of watching the games. Being Nebraska fans, you and I should have more issues with college football than NFL football. As in, I have an issue with the lack of a rule that gives Nebraska a 21-point lead before the game starts due to the fact that they're just going to give the other team 21 points in turnovers every game. Or something similar. Why haven't they made that rule yet? Total bunk. They already get to play in the Big 10. How much more help can they expect to get? It seems they should transfer to the WAC. But they'd probably lose in an embarrassing fashion to Hawaii. I'm not bitter. |
| 2013-11-18 11:35 AM in reply to: mr2tony |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by mr2tony Originally posted by uclamatt2007 Originally posted by mr2tony Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by uclamatt2007 The NFL is starting to feel like the NBA. There is such little talent difference between most teams that many games come down to who wins the coin flip on a handful of key penalties and plays. Pass interference and holding calls can be made on almost every play so the games seem to be often decided on the arbitrary times they are or are not called. Of course, I am going on hour 7 of football today so it isn't like the NFL is losing money on it. You just described why I have pretty much lost all interest in the NFL. I occasionally watch games, but they're just not fun for me anymore. College has it's issues as well, but I get so much more enjoyment out of watching the games. Being Nebraska fans, you and I should have more issues with college football than NFL football. As in, I have an issue with the lack of a rule that gives Nebraska a 21-point lead before the game starts due to the fact that they're just going to give the other team 21 points in turnovers every game. Or something similar. Why haven't they made that rule yet? Total bunk. They already get to play in the Big 10. How much more help can they expect to get? It seems they should transfer to the WAC. But they'd probably lose in an embarrassing fashion to Hawaii. I'm not bitter. Dude, get with the times. The WAC is no more. |
| 2013-11-18 11:45 AM in reply to: jford2309 |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by jford2309
No team loses a game on one bad call! I completely disagree. |
| 2013-11-18 11:46 AM in reply to: JoshR |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by mr2tony Originally posted by uclamatt2007 Originally posted by mr2tony Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by uclamatt2007 The NFL is starting to feel like the NBA. There is such little talent difference between most teams that many games come down to who wins the coin flip on a handful of key penalties and plays. Pass interference and holding calls can be made on almost every play so the games seem to be often decided on the arbitrary times they are or are not called. Of course, I am going on hour 7 of football today so it isn't like the NFL is losing money on it. You just described why I have pretty much lost all interest in the NFL. I occasionally watch games, but they're just not fun for me anymore. College has it's issues as well, but I get so much more enjoyment out of watching the games. Being Nebraska fans, you and I should have more issues with college football than NFL football. As in, I have an issue with the lack of a rule that gives Nebraska a 21-point lead before the game starts due to the fact that they're just going to give the other team 21 points in turnovers every game. Or something similar. Why haven't they made that rule yet? Total bunk. They already get to play in the Big 10. How much more help can they expect to get? It seems they should transfer to the WAC. But they'd probably lose in an embarrassing fashion to Hawaii. I'm not bitter. Dude, get with the times. The WAC is no more. Then, perhaps, they should go back to the Big 8. They could beat up on weaklings like Oklahoma State and Missouri all day. |
| 2013-11-18 11:47 AM in reply to: JoshR |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Josh, are we watching the same replay? His arm never hits the helmet. The face mask might touch the top of his arm for a millisecond after it comes down, but that is it. I've never heard of a neck rule, I think they make half of that stuff up. And as for the video with the PI, isn't it obvious, he was thinking about touching the other guy so obviously that is not fair and blatant offensive PI! |
| 2013-11-18 12:02 PM in reply to: bradword |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by bradword Josh, are we watching the same replay? His arm never hits the helmet. The face mask might touch the top of his arm for a millisecond after it comes down, but that is it. I've never heard of a neck rule, I think they make half of that stuff up. And as for the video with the PI, isn't it obvious, he was thinking about touching the other guy so obviously that is not fair and blatant offensive PI! If you watch this, I think it's fairly obvious he makes contact with his helmet. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1854569-49ers-ahmad-brooks-calle... |
| 2013-11-18 12:33 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Master 2504 Southwest Iowa | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by bradword Josh, are we watching the same replay? His arm never hits the helmet. The face mask might touch the top of his arm for a millisecond after it comes down, but that is it. I've never heard of a neck rule, I think they make half of that stuff up. And as for the video with the PI, isn't it obvious, he was thinking about touching the other guy so obviously that is not fair and blatant offensive PI! If you watch this, I think it's fairly obvious he makes contact with his helmet. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1854569-49ers-ahmad-brooks-calle...
You are quite correct. As he is falling down his helmet does touch the arm of the defensive player. It was not a hit to the neck or head. It was an arm and only an arm to the chest and as the player was falling down his helmet did touch the defender. |
| 2013-11-18 1:10 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by flip18436572 Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by bradword Josh, are we watching the same replay? His arm never hits the helmet. The face mask might touch the top of his arm for a millisecond after it comes down, but that is it. I've never heard of a neck rule, I think they make half of that stuff up. And as for the video with the PI, isn't it obvious, he was thinking about touching the other guy so obviously that is not fair and blatant offensive PI! If you watch this, I think it's fairly obvious he makes contact with his helmet. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1854569-49ers-ahmad-brooks-calle...
You are quite correct. As he is falling down his helmet does touch the arm of the defensive player. It was not a hit to the neck or head. It was an arm and only an arm to the chest and as the player was falling down his helmet did touch the defender. That little bit of contact makes it a penalty. I've seen it called where a DE is being pushed around the QB but his hand reaches out and gently slaps the QB's helmet and that's considered a personal foul. Basically if you hit any part of the QB below the knee or above the Shoulder, it's going to be a flag. That's just the way the rules are going. Aaron Rodgers takes a clean sack and suddenly we need new rules to protect the QB. Edited by JoshR 2013-11-18 1:11 PM |
| 2013-11-18 1:46 PM in reply to: bradword |
Pro 5761 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by bradword Originally posted by jford2309 I completely disagree.
No team loses a game on one bad call!
are you referring to this one game or in general? |
| 2013-11-18 3:25 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 1585 Folsom (Sacramento), CA | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win I think the most frustrating part is the inconsistency with which the calls are made. This is just one example I can remember. How can this not be targeting when the call made yesterday was? Edited by uclamatt2007 2013-11-18 3:26 PM (CRAB.jpg) Attachments ---------------- CRAB.jpg (55KB - 1 downloads) |
| 2013-11-18 3:40 PM in reply to: jford2309 |
Extreme Veteran 2263 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by jford2309 Originally posted by bradword Originally posted by jford2309 I completely disagree.
No team loses a game on one bad call!
are you referring to this one game or in general? Packers Vs. Seahawks during the referee strike? |
| 2013-11-18 4:47 PM in reply to: jford2309 |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by jford2309 Originally posted by bradword Originally posted by jford2309 I completely disagree.
No team loses a game on one bad call!
are you referring to this one game or in general? Both. If a ref makes a bad call and take away 7 points in a game in the last second and a team loses by 3, isn't that the ref taking the game away? |
| 2013-11-18 4:50 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Josh, look at the link i posted which shows the hit in slower motion. Again, I'm not seeing contact to the helmet. The rule does not state that you can't ever touch a helmet, it says you can't hit them there. The video very specifically shows he does not hit the face/helmet at all, only his chest. |
| 2013-11-18 4:53 PM in reply to: the bear |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by the bear Meh, you (average fan) see it one way, the refs and the guys in the booth (who are well-versed in the interpretation of the current rules) see it another. So, we'll take the gift.
The average fan has a better view than the ref on the field with HD/Slow motion. Also, this play was not booth reviewed and couldn't be. |
| 2013-11-18 5:10 PM in reply to: bradword |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Ok, I'm going to pull my best Nostradamus. I think in our lifetime, football will be gone or in a form that nowhere resembles what it is today. Sucks, but I see it going that way. Tons of rules to try and make a dangerous game safe - there is only so much you CAN do without ruining it (and some may say we got there already). Parents may be less likely to let their kids play. Some kids my not want to take the risks. The NFL already sees it with their marketing campaign to appeal to women in their 20's - 30's. Now with some light on the "hazing" that everyone knows goes on, even more people are going to think it's a game of barbarians/neanderthals... May just go the way of the gladiators.
OTOH, UFC and MMA is thriving... |
| 2013-11-18 6:56 PM in reply to: 0 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by bradword Originally posted by the bear The average fan has a better view than the ref on the field with HD/Slow motion. Also, this play was not booth reviewed and couldn't be. Meh, you (average fan) see it one way, the refs and the guys in the booth (who are well-versed in the interpretation of the current rules) see it another. So, we'll take the gift.
It's not the view that i'm questioning but the knowledge and interpretation of the rules that the average fan is lacking. Also not speaking of the referees in the booth but the network announcers. What you call a "clean hit" resulted in a penalty from the official yards away from the play that wasn't questioned by those announcers after many of those HD/Slowmotion replays. You may think your knowledge and vision is superior (as do most fans), but it just isn't so. Originally posted by Kido
OTOH, UFC and MMA is thriving... Care to post some attendance and rating numbers that we can compare to the NFL's? |
| 2013-11-18 7:40 PM in reply to: the bear |
Master 1585 Folsom (Sacramento), CA | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by the bear Originally posted by bradword Originally posted by the bear The average fan has a better view than the ref on the field with HD/Slow motion. Also, this play was not booth reviewed and couldn't be. Meh, you (average fan) see it one way, the refs and the guys in the booth (who are well-versed in the interpretation of the current rules) see it another. So, we'll take the gift.
It's not the view that i'm questioning but the knowledge and interpretation of the rules that the average fan is lacking. Also not speaking of the referees in the booth but the network announcers. What you call a "clean hit" resulted in a penalty from the official yards away from the play that wasn't questioned by those announcers after many of those HD/Slowmotion replays. You may think your knowledge and vision is superior (as do most fans), but it just isn't so. While there are many rules experts out there more knowledgeable than nearly all fans, I will not be convinced that Aikman/Buck are among those. Aikman absolutely understands the nuances of of football better than nearly anyone, but rules are not his forte. Just look at the interception/ fumble out of the endzone series earlier in the game. It took Buck/Aikman until half way through the replay to realize that they were also looking at if the defender was down by contact after making interception. They were likely alerted by someone that was the case. I am sure that my family and I were not the only ones discussing if the Saints were going to catch a break by the defender being down rather than the touch back, long before the "experts" in the booth mentioned it. Now the fact that Mike Pereira, the Fox rules expert, agrees with you is a far better point, but I would say that most calls in today's NFL are shades of grey and generally not black and white. |
| 2013-11-18 9:14 PM in reply to: #4900214 |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win The other problems with announcers is they have to worry about their jobs and fines. Plenty of experts have come out saying the call was bogus. |
| 2013-11-18 9:16 PM in reply to: #4901039 |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win |
| 2013-11-19 2:16 PM in reply to: Kido |
| 358 | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win OTOH, UFC and MMA is thriving...
After that farce of a decision Saturday, that may start going away soon also...
And I'll take this in retribution for the non-call on the holding of Galette on the last play vs. the Patriots. |
| 2013-11-19 2:53 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Master 1585 Folsom (Sacramento), CA | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by flip18436572 Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by bradword Josh, are we watching the same replay? His arm never hits the helmet. The face mask might touch the top of his arm for a millisecond after it comes down, but that is it. I've never heard of a neck rule, I think they make half of that stuff up. And as for the video with the PI, isn't it obvious, he was thinking about touching the other guy so obviously that is not fair and blatant offensive PI! If you watch this, I think it's fairly obvious he makes contact with his helmet. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1854569-49ers-ahmad-brooks-calle...
You are quite correct. As he is falling down his helmet does touch the arm of the defensive player. It was not a hit to the neck or head. It was an arm and only an arm to the chest and as the player was falling down his helmet did touch the defender. That little bit of contact makes it a penalty. I've seen it called where a DE is being pushed around the QB but his hand reaches out and gently slaps the QB's helmet and that's considered a personal foul. Basically if you hit any part of the QB below the knee or above the Shoulder, it's going to be a flag. That's just the way the rules are going. Aaron Rodgers takes a clean sack and suddenly we need new rules to protect the QB. The rule reads as "forcible contact" to the head or neck area. That is where most officials blow these calls and where they blew it in this case. The contact to the chest was forcible which cause the neck and bottom of the facemask to contact the defender's arm. In my opinion, not forcibly. |
| 2013-11-19 3:13 PM in reply to: uclamatt2007 |
Elite 4547 | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win Ray Lewis was 100% correct. This call was bogus. Unfortunately the NFL can't go back and have them replay the game, but if they did the right thing they'd erase the fine...if there really was a fine assessed. |
| 2013-11-19 3:17 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: The refs give the Saints a win The 49ers had 56 offensive plays, the Saints had 67. I am so tired of people boiling games down to one or two plays.; a dropped pass, a missed field goal, a blown call. It happens. The Niners punted 7 times. Go score a touchdown instead. Edited by mrbbrad 2013-11-19 3:17 PM |
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