Should we lawyer up? (Page 2)

I'm not sure what country people are living in who think the wife can't sue, but this is America baby and we got crazy jurors.  I'm not saying the dojo was at fault, but I guarantee the OP would have a buttload of lawyers lined up to take the case.  Civil court, you only need to convince 8 random people that she deserves a fat paycheck.

As for the original question, you don't need a lawyer to talk to the agent.  They've already heard the dojo's side of the story, now they need to know your wife's side.  All she has to do is tell the truth.  Unless of course you're planning on bending the truth to help strengthen the claim, that's where a lawyer could be beneficial in coming up with the right angle.  Once the agent hears both sides, he'll try to figure out who he thinks is at fault and either give you an offer or reject their claim.  If they reject it, or if you think you're getting low-balled, that's whethe time for you to lawyer up.  Of course, when you do meet with the agent, mentioning that you have a lawyer chomping at the bit to go to court over this would probably make them think twice about flatout rejecting the claim. 

All good points, but considering the highlighted portion, I think the OP would be wise to proceed.  

I don't personally agree with seeking payment, but there is a possible solution.  Call the place where it happened and ask for them to submit your medical expenses under the Medical Payments portion of their General Liability Insurance.  The limit is usually between $5,000 and $10,000, its not much but it will make you whole on the out of pocket expenses.  Please know that there is a possibility that Medical Payments coverage does not apply to participants of the school/class.  FYI, here is the industry defination of Medical Payments

"A general liability coverage that reimburses others, without regard to the
insured's liability, for medical or funeral expenses incurred by such persons as
a result of bodily injury or death sustained by accident under the conditions
specified in the policy."

For those that think that this is what insurance is for and have a "go ahead, sue 'em" thought I am ok with that.  BUT please keep that thought in mind when your premiums go up.

Difficult to say. My son does TKD and MMA, and he is always getting knocked around. The instructor does a good job but it is impossible to prevent every errant kick, elbow, knee, etc. I do remember signing an extensive waiver. I have seen lots of injuries but nothing as sever as you describe. Usually it's a bruise or an abrasion type of injury.

There may be standards associated with the particular school/accreditation that the instructor follows. I'd take a look there. For example, you need to be a green belt before there is full contact sparring. White belts don't spar, but they do practice with each other and contact occurs.

True, but I am just of the mind that adults should be held responsible for their own choices.  I actually believe that the instructor in the Tae Kwon Doe facility may hold responsibity for the accident, not because of white belt sparring but if there was really not enough room for the top of sparring they were doing.  I can't be a judge of that because I don't know.  I wold probably go through my insurance and let them deal with his insurance claim.

Side note on your hypoxic sets (which I am not familiar with), they sound like russian roulette.  If the point is to struggle, but they can cause blacking out with out any warning, wouldn't more people black out from pushing it too hard?

I'm outta this one, but my only point is that what happened per the OP's comments was an accident.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Looking for a bunch of what ifs, and well, and you should haves in order to sue for damages is simply sketchy, and what is wrong with our legal system IMHO.

Again, sucks that it happened, but its not like the dojo was blatantly negligent in some way they didn't cattle prod them into a cage bare knuckled and force a fight to the death.

^^ This exactly!

They should have medical payments coverage between $5k and $25k (usually in the 5-10 range) that is a no fault, no liability coverage they can offer and you can take. Sounds like it would be enough to help you out with this accident.

Or you could lawyer up, sue for a bunch of money and then the price of the lessons will go up to pay for the new higher insurance premiums, or the dojo will close down because they can't get anyone to insure them.

When you take money from an insurance company you aren't taking it from some pie in the sky. You are taking it from your neighbors, me and everyone else. 

I've paid a god-awful amount of insurance premiums on policies that have never paid a dime.  I would feel absolutely no guilt in "taking money from an insurance company" if I had a legitimate claim.

This.  If you have a legit claim, worrying about what it costs to someone else is irrelevant.  IF it is the dojo's fault, they  are the ones that should worry how their actions are raising their own premiums.  Not every lawsuit is bad.

I don't usually agree with people that wear underwar for hats

Nothing wrong with a legitimate claim and reimbursement for proven losses. It is the lawyering up and going for a retirement nest egg that I was referring to, which is what has caused you to pay god-awful amounts in premiums. Which I am not saying was/is the intent of the OP.

In this case my personal opinion is that the dojo is not at fault, it is a dangerous activity, she got hurt. But there is coverage for that sort of thing (which I mentioned) and I don't see a problem with utilizing that coverage to recover out of pocket losses. 

Not all but a lot of lawyers are going to get ahold of this case and rape the dojo and their insurance company, because, as was previously mentioned, all they have to do is get 8 people to agree with them. I'm not a big fan of that.

x3

I broke my ankle during wrestling practice in High School, never once did I think about suing for my medical bills. Its a contact sport and that is what insurance is for. Now if the owner/instructor was doing something blatantly inappropriate then she should have not participated.

Not trying to be too harsh here but I think this is one of those situations where common sense should transcend laws (although I know that never really happens).  It would never occur to me to obtain a lawyer for something like this -  sports are inherently risky and accidents happen.  There needs to be some level of personal responsibility on the part of the willing participant.

Just to clear some things up. 

1. For us, there was a clear distinction.  If she had kicked her partner and had broken her foot, we both feel that would constitute an inherant risk that she assumed when she signed the waiver, paid the fees, attended the class. However,

2. The class was too crowded, as attested by two different instructors that were present at the time.  As a novice, she is assuming that the instructors would not create unsafe conditions unnecessarily.

3. The "white belts shall not free spar" rule was something we discovered after the fact.  Both instructors admitted as such, and a review of national tkd associations confirms as much.

In short, it's an issue of something that could have been easily prevented.  And sure, not taking the class would have prevented it.  I get that.

I guess I'm siding on the "let the insurance agencies duke it out" recommendation. 

If the insurance companies "duke it out" your company will likely only seek to get their losses back, they might try for your out of pocket, they might now.

If they don't, make sure to look into the medical expense coverage to help you with any co-pays and that sort of thing. You don't have to sue to get it, you just ask and the dojo tells their company to give it to you, pretty simple, and should hopefully keep you from holding much of the bag.

My personal opinion (IANAL) is to sit down with their insurance company and see what they say.  Explain that you'd like to have the medical costs covered and if they're ok with that then you should be fine.

I think lawyers come in when you get into damages, pain and suffering type stuff or if they refuse to cover anything.  also if you show up with a lawyer they'll probably clam up.

We had an incident where our son was attacked by a neighbors dog and it tore up his finger and he had some puncture wounds on his back and legs.  We had what I would call an ambulance chaser come to us and say he could get us $100k in damages etc... and I told him to pack sand.  We talked to the insurance company and they offered a reasonable (and much smaller) settlement right out of the gate and it was just done

An attorney will not work for free and will be angling for 1/3 of whatever is collected. That means you're still out 1/3 of your medical bills, if you get over the hurdle of liability.

I haven't read all of the other posts, so if someone already said this... I concur!

At what point do you stop taking responsibility for yourself? If my Masters coach says "do 25s with 1 breath" and I need a second breath, for God's sake I take a second breath. I am ultimately responsible for my own breathing.

So, yes. In that situation, you should know better.

How often do new swimmers post on these forums about hypoxic sets?  Some coaches endorse them, some don't.  Do I understand correctly that a swimmer doesn't realize they are about to black out before they do?

Seems to me that the OP wasn't asking about whether or not they should make a claim for damages.  That ship has sailed.  And, although I don't agree with it, it is their right to make that claim.

As to whether or not I would meet with a representative of the dojo's insurance agency - I would discuss that with your insurance agent.  As you mentioned, they (dojo's agent) is not working for your interests.  

Finally, I can't help but offer my own opinion, because well, that comes with the territory.  I participated in Universal Kempo for 3 years.  During that time, I separated my shoulder, and tore my patellar tendon, both from sparring.  My wife called those injuries "stupid penalties" for believing that my body could successfully withstand what is an inherently dangerous activity.  At no time did I ever consider an insurance claim, or litigation.

Just my $0.02.

Come on man!  We've moved on to shallow water blackouts.

Negligence: "The failure to take reasonable care, which is the care a reasonably careful person would use under similar circumstances. Negligence is doing something that a reasonably careful person would not do under similar circumstances or failing to do something that a reasonably careful person would do under similar circumstances."

Comparative neglegence:" Whether the claimant was herself negligent in (her participation in sparring) and if so, was that negligence a contributing legal cause of injury or damage to the claimant."

Assumption of risk:" whether claimant knew of the existence of the danger complained of, realized and appreciated the possibility of injury as a result of that danger; and having a reasonable opportunity to avoid the danger, voluntarily and deliberately exposed herself to such danger."

I'm just sayin' you can sue for anything.  And you can find a lawyer to take any case.  Was the dojo negligent in letting a white belt spar? Possibly.  Was the dojo negligent in not having a certain space alocated to each sparring group? Possibly.  Was there some amount of comparative negligence? Probably.  Was there an assumption of risk? Probably.

When you play contact sports you risk the possibility of injury.  I've suffered broken ankles, dislocated elbow (13 times), broken cheek bone, and broken fingers, all during various sports.  I never once attempted to sue.  Now in three of those cases the league's insurance took care of the medical expenses at least partially.

Yes, lawyer up.  Always lawyer up.  

I'm a lawyer.  I don't do PI work anymore, but a good lawyer will virtually always get you a better deal than you can on your own (even taking into account fees and costs).

I find your recommendation slightly humorous given your occupation.