Graniteman - Racing and religion (Page 2)

Marvarnett - 2010-07-13 8:35 AM

Not to hijack your thread, but I would like to pose a question to others.  Would you be so quick to say, just bow your head and be silent (etc) if instead of a Christian prayer, a Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan rite was performed?

I would be just as 'tolerant' but I feel others would act as the OP and feel it was ok.

Marvarnett - 2010-07-13 9:24 AM

Mike,

So you wouldn't bow your head for a Hindu or Muslim prayer at your next local triathlon?

Fastyellow - 2010-07-13 10:36 AM IMO, it has no place at a race....but the RD can do what he wants, it's his race. The only thing I can do is not race that race again. If some racers want to get together privately and pray to whatever it is they pray to, that's cool. But I don't like when the organizers do it.

I would not stick around, I would go on with my business. I wonder how many Christians would stick around and bow their heads if a Satan worshiper got up there in a black cloak and started praying to Lucifer....?? When that is the exact same thing. I'm sure most would walk away in disgust....but other non believers are expected to stay and show respect.

Fastyellow - 2010-07-13 9:36 AM IMO, it has no place at a race....but the RD can do what he wants, it's his race. The only thing I can do is not race that race again. If some racers want to get together privately and pray to whatever it is they pray to, that's cool. But I don't like when the organizers do it.

I would not stick around, I would go on with my business. I wonder how many Christians would stick around and bow their heads if a Satan worshiper got up there in a black cloak and started praying to Lucifer....?? When that is the exact same thing. I'm sure most would walk away in disgust....but other non believers are expected to stay and show respect.

Fastyellow - 2010-07-13 9:36 AM IMO, it has no place at a race....but the RD can do what he wants, it's his race. The only thing I can do is not race that race again. If some racers want to get together privately and pray to whatever it is they pray to, that's cool. But I don't like when the organizers do it.

I would not stick around, I would go on with my business. I wonder how many Christians would stick around and bow their heads if a Satan worshiper got up there in a black cloak and started praying to Lucifer....?? When that is the exact same thing. I'm sure most would walk away in disgust....but other non believers are expected to stay and show respect.

TexasMPGal - 2010-07-13 10:49 AM

I am personally not going to be indignant of those that don't participate in the prayer so long as they are not actively disrupting, and I am not going to actively disrupt another religion's prayer expression.  That is respect. 

Goosedog - 2010-07-13 7:58 AM  but I do think it is a bit presumptuous when a person launches into a group prayer in these types of settings.

Goosedog - 2010-07-13 10:58 AM

you think the RD could have been more respectful to all participants in the race if the RD had announced that those interested could join in a moment of prayer following the pre-race meeting and wait a moment before starting?  It seems the RD could then fulfill the Great Commission, the folks that wanted to pray could pray and the folks that didn't could be given the opportunity to go about their business without feeling they are being disrespectful.  If it is about respect, the RD could have shown some as well.  It wouldn't have really bothered me, but I do think it is a bit presumptuous when a person launches into a group prayer in these types of settings.

wabash - 2010-07-13 11:19 AM if someone gets cramped or tangled up in something in the water and cant keep their head above the surface, what is probably the most common thought that is going to go through their minds at that moment?
Oh God!  HELP ME, SAVE ME!!
but until then, its "pshhh, i dont need any of that god crap".
does prayer actually hurt anyone?

Goosedog - 2010-07-13 11:23 AM

A detailed discussion of why Duke basketball sucks isn't going to hurt anyone (and is absolutely true), but some people would think it is inappropriate before a race.

Marvarnett - 2010-07-13 6:35 AM

They do that at our local race series (Tri the Parks).  I am not religious, but I respect people's religion in general, so I wait until it's done.  Just like if someone is moving around for the National Anthem, I don't freak out anymore.  I just stand at attention because it means something to ME.

So, in short, show the RD respect and use the moment how you see fit.

Not to hijack your thread, but I would like to pose a question to others.  Would you be so quick to say, just bow your head and be silent (etc) if instead of a Christian prayer, a Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan rite was performed?

I would be just as 'tolerant' but I feel others would act as the OP and feel it was ok.

Aarondb4 - 2010-07-13 11:46 AM
One only needs to look at the heads side of a quarter or to recite the pledge of allegiance to our flag to understand that our country was founded on a belief in a Christian God. So yes, if there is a prayer, some might not appreciate it, but we can all appreciate that our founding fathers appreciated it and thus we should be able to find some respect for it.

Our currency does not say "In Karma We Trust" nor does the pledge include any wording about "One Nation under Buddha".

So as Mike said... When in Rome... 

Marvarnett - 2010-07-13 9:52 AM

Unless our founding fathers were around in 1864, then I would say your 'argument' bears no merit.  The first instance of "In God we Trust" was on the 1864 two-cent coin.

And they certainly were not around for McCarthyism in 1954 where they added "Under God" to the pledge.

But who am I to confuse these things with facts.  Our Founding Fathers were religious, not necessarily Christian.

MADFOXZZ75 - 2010-07-13 6:22 AM Hey all, 

I definitely don't want to get in a debate about religion specifically, I'm just wondering where you all think it should be in the scheme of things at a race. Religion is just such a personal thing, and this event threw me for a loop.

I participated in the Graniteman in Minnesota (US) this last weekend and had lots of fun, as I have for the past 4 years, but there was one hang up for me this year. During the mandatory pre race meeting they had a "hey let's all bow our heads and pray to our heavenly father" thing. I'm not christian so I just began making my way to the start, as did a few others, but I really hoped they didn't announce any other last minute info related to the race after their prayer.

Have other people run into this? I've been doing Tri's for a while now (all in MN and WI) and I've seen groups get together on the side and pray before a race, which totally makes sense, but I've never heard a race announcer hand off the mike at a mandatory pre race meeting and assume that everyone worships the same creator they do.

Maybe it would make more sense if the event were being held at a christian college or something, but this was just a community Tri-Minnesota event...Should a race be explicit in it's promotional material if it is intended to be mainly a christian race?

beckjon - 2010-07-13 12:15 PM Assuming you believed in an all powerful God who could intervene in a situation, wouldn't be irresponsible not to pray for safety for everyone involved? Right before the race seems like a great time to pray, and I don't see the harm in letting others know you're concerned about them, especially if it only takes 30 seconds.

Aarondb4 - 2010-07-13 9:02 AM
My overall point was that like it or not a certain religion is dominant throughout our history, just as a different religion might be historically dominant in another country.

Lurch - 2010-07-13 11:16 AM IMHO if an organizer/person/crowd shows me no respect by forcing their beliefs on to me I have no obligation to show their beliefs respect either.  I always walk away during a prayer out of principle.  If it is a moment of silence or they excuse the crowd and say those that want to stay for a prayer can do so then I will stay and show respect.  Other wise f*** those guys.

TexasMPGal - 2010-07-13 12:49 PM

Until there are guns pointed at you, or your forced to confess a religion before you race, or some sort of other TRUE forcing, then there is no forcing of beliefs, just expressing of beliefs.  Americans, and western societies that have freedom of expression within religion as part of the core values (as it should be, it is key to liberty) truly have no idea how good we have it.  I've been to and seen some of the countries where true forcing of religious beliefs exist.  It amazes me how worked up people get over exposure to simple expressions of faith--expressions that do not instigate violence.  You don't have to believe it, you don't have to participate, you don't have to listen if you don't want to, it is not forcing, you can leave.  Regardless of whether you believe religiously or not, we should be grateful, as a nation, that our FREEDOM as Americans allows for this expression.  It is not forcing, there is always a choice to not participate.  We will ALWAYS hear things we don't care to hear. There is a lot of music lyrics that I despise and may actually offend me, that are played at a variety of events I attend--to include races...but I don't get pissed off at the race director, I just tune it out and go on with what I'm doing.  The RD isn't forcing me to listen to the music anymore than he is forcing you to participate in a prayer.
I also do not believe quietly walking away/backing out is disrespectful either--disrupting the prayer is wrong, but not participating or moving away without disrupting is your choice and you have the FREEDOM to exercise that choice.