SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 20)

I have had the same experience and thus the reason I am sold on group riding. It pushes me to keep up with those folks that are stronger, faster, etc.

I usually prefer some type of outside motivation or a "carrot" when I ride long.  Riding with a group helps with that.  Or during tri season, I will start with my group, but just keep going on my own while they regroup with the slower riders.  I'll usually plan to ride about 5-10 miles farther than the group, and then my goal becomes to catch them on the way back.  Helps me because it allows me to ride on my aerobars almost the whole ride and go at my own pace rather than having to ride a paceline with the rest of the group. 

Thanks so much! Lot's of great advice.

I am getting my new tri-bike next week and will post pics. It will be interesting to see how it compares with my roadie that has shorty aero bars.

It's a Felt B16. 

I used to do most of my riding alone. It is easier to stick to intervals, goal pace etc when you are solo plus you can ride down in your aerobars all the time. However, I didn't really improve as a cyclist until I started group riding. I do a Saturday group ride that is hard and fast 60-80 miles, I try to go as often as possible because it makes me work hard. My other rides are shorter and either alone, with the hubby or a couple of friends. In summer I can jump into some weekday group rides because they ride early. I'm sold on group riding now and find riding alone to be boring. It probably doesn't make for the best triathlon training.

One you get over 50 miles, it's amazing how you can add to your distance, next you find yourself doing metric centuries without a thought and I got pretty used to the 85 mile Saturday route (about 4 hours) this past year.

Congrats on your new bike. I love Felt, I have the DA and an F5 road bike.

I'm back from a self imposed web hiatus.  Got sick right after Xmas and did no training for the past week, and no web surfing - and I come back to find you guys are up to 24 pages + Fred is back.  You miss a lot in a short time!

Cancelled my gym membership this afternoon, after joining a different gym that is set to open in a few weeks.  The new one is close to home, but this means all swimming will be in the morning, so I'm going to have to force myself to be a morning person.  Lunch time will be for running only.

Plan to start running with the LRS again with their HM group.  They started a couple of weeks ago, and I'll just try to slot myself in starting tonight. 

Sorry to bug you guys with more questions but, browsing  X-Lab items on Amazon for a rear mounted bottle holder. I like the XLAB SUPER WING, Black  and the XLAB Gorilla XT Carbon Cage (Black).

What do you guys think? 

I have the super wing.  It does the job, but frankly, I don't really "need" it.  I can do just fine with 2 bottles since there are so many places I can stop off to refill along my routes.  I never use it for racing (since aid stations are so frequent), but will use it sometimes for training simply because I can't mount a decent size saddle bag to the back of my P2 seatpost.  So I basically use it to mount a bigger saddle bag...no bottle cages.  I tend to take a lot of stuff with me during training.  2 extra tubes, patch kit, multi tool, 3 CO2, inflator, levers, etc...so I need a big saddle bag.

As far as the gorilla cages.  I personally have not used them.  I've been using specialized rib cages (about $18 each) and have never come close to launching a bottle.  Lots of people swear by them.

Welcome to the early morning crowd Neil!    

Glad to see you back, sorry to hear you were sick.  I hope it didn't stop you from enjoying some good meals and family time.

Personally, I saved a lot of money by just using a plastic cage and zip ties.  This won't work for all saddles, depending on how the rails/seat are configured, but it did for mine.

Are you going to follow a training plan for your races or just planning on making something up?  If following a plan, how much time between when you will finish Jorge's program and the start of your plan?

I think it can become beneficial when you decide you are willing to spend the time to learn how to use it properly and not just as a fancy bike computer (that's really all I did for the first year).  Just based on a quick review of your logs, you are getting a taste of it from TR so you can see some of the benefits like having a specific power number to chase for intervals and have something concrete to measure improvements. 

That's a bit of a vague answer but I think it's important to know that there is a bit of a learning curve to being able to understand what it's telling you and what to do with the data.  But, we're here to help if we can!

Ok, I finally looked at the details of the race and that looks awesome!  Have fun!!

I agree with Arend.  Getting the benefit out of a power meter is simply a matter of using it properly.  TrainerRoad is an excellent way to use power because it helps you calculate your threshold power, and all the workouts are based off of that.  But once you're on the open road, and you don't have a laptop telling you what power to ride at, you have to do a little more thinking for yourself on how hard you are going to ride and planning where your intervals will be.

Overall, I love my power meter.  It's a great motivator for me.  For others, they don't like it so much.  Macca refuses to use one, and some very fast athletes on BT (Fred and Bryan) have experimented with them and chose not to use them going forward.  Some people just rather go off of feel than a metric.  That is the one downside to a power meter.  It only measures the force you are putting into the pedals/crank/hub.  It has no idea what the weather is like, or if you're sick or having a really good day.  It's for that reason that I use power in addition to HR and RPE.  It's not only important to monitor my wattage, but also how I feel while putting out that wattage.

I did my first season without a PM. Then during the winter between 1st and 2nd season my brother in law lent me a computrainer and I did Jorge's plan with power and saw huge improvements. Huge. Gigantic. This is basically what you are getting from TR, minus a few bells as whistles. So you are on the right path.

But when came time to race my first HIM, I wanted a tool to help me pace the bike properly. This was of incredible value. Yes ,guys like Bryan, with their experience don't need a PM. But for a newbie to go into a race knowing an accurate FTP and having done a few race rehearsals at a target wattage, the unknown of a first HIM is significantly cut. Very significantly.

So I disagree you need to learn everything about it for it to be useful. You need to do a few tests, know your FTP and do some race rehearsals at a target percentage of FTP and then execute the race at that target. Yes, other bad things can happen, but proper pacing of the bike on HIM and greater distance is critical and a PM helps a lot.

With time you then learn all the ins and outs of using a PM and you can really start to fine tune your training. I have done 3 seasons with a PM and I am still learning.

With TR indoor and a HRM/RPE outdoor you can do a lot to help pacing but nothing beats a PM for the person without the years of riding experience.

IMHO

Agree Marc,

The first steps to using a power meter are fairly simple.  But make no mistake it takes some user interaction, otherwise it is just a fancy bike computer.  It's not like a set of aerobars where you just get on them and ride to see the benefit.  I'd say if you like trainerroad, you're probably a good candidate for a power meter.

I agree with Ben and Jason.

But unlike Ben, I am not yet able to go by RPE even though I have been using the PM for 3 seasons. I just end up going out too hard. This is a serious flaw I have. I have a very bad sense of measure. I need these tools to hold back or I would blow up on the run and bike.

But without a PM, I could pace myself properly by HR. I have learned the power to HR equivalences quite well and if my PM died in a race, I could fall back on my HR.

I do believe someone can train all winter with a PM/Computrainer/Trainer road and then fall back to a HRM in the summer. Not perfect, but better than nothing.But they have to be very closely watching Power and HR while training.

I would say it works for long rides, tempo rides and long intervals. Guys like Brian have their HR zones so tuned in, they don't need a PM

Forgot to say this

Thank you Jason for starting this group.

I am not sure I mentioned this

I have some coupons for 2 free weeks of Training Peaks premium. If someone in this group wants one, just fire me a PM,

Another great topic is training metrics. If you guys wants we can post some of the things we look at and debate on.

Just an idea.

I have both and am very happy with them. I use them for long training rides where there is no support. I also have the bag and the thingy that holds the inflator and CO2 cartridges. I have raced with it in the past but do not intend to this year. I have some doubts how much drag the whole thing brings, but I think that's just me being obsessive.

That is a really good point.  My A race (assuming everything goes well with my knee) is Vineman 70.3 in Northern California -- I'll be doing all of my training in the Houston area.  I'm fairly certain that whatever power output is attainable in hot, humid Houston will be very different from what I'd be able to do in the much cooler climate of NorCal. 

If someone were to train and race in dramatically different climates, would they end up relying more on RPE/HR versus the PM output?  Or maybe given enough experience, they'd have metrics worked out for various climates/elevations/etc?

I also have both and have been happy with them.  I've never launched a bottle....and tend to ride on some bumpy roads in TX.  I also have the thing that holds the inflator and a couple CO2 cartridges (sometimes the CO2 cartridges work their way loose, so I just try to remember to tighten them before the start of each ride). 

I'll be racing with mine....I'm sure whatever drag is present will be the least of my concerns....my engine needs more work before I concern myself with the few seconds that this might cause me

I like this idea Marc.  I don't think I'm well enough versed in some of the metrics like TSS to get the benefit out of the numbers.

Finally over the never-ending head cold!!  I thought my 6 mile race on New Years day might set me back but got it all out!

To welcome myself back to the pain cave...I had 3x15' @95-100%FTP this morning at 5:15 a.m.  A really pleasant way to wake myself up LOL.  That third interval the clock moves backwards I swear!

Struggled to hold 95% but glad my energy is almost back to normal and can hit workouts again.

I like it too. Some of these terms can literally take up an entire chapter of a book, but at least knowing something about them can be helpful. If someone really wants to get into it, then a book like Training & Racing With A Powermeter is very useful. Even if you just read a few chapters of it. Some of them I'm still not likely to use, at least not for awhile.

TSS (Training Stress Score) basically uses both Intensity (IF) and duration of the ride to give a score for the *size* of the workout. Instead of just using miles or time, it factors in the intensity as well, since going harder means more effort was put into it. This helps to quantify the physiological cost of more effort or more time, or however the two are moved around.

It doesn't really describe the type of workout it was, but just the size of it, so to speak.

ETA: So a 15x1', 2 x 20' or basic aerobic riding can all be made about the same size in terms of physiological cost, but they affect different things due to the intensities they are ridden at.

If possible it would be great if you could ride with others when you are going longer, really helps pass the time and miles.

When I am doing a distance significantly longer than I have done before I prefer a sponsored ride.  Last summer my long ride was going to be 82, we missed a turn so it ended up being 78 but my longest ride before that was 60 so it was a pretty good jump.  For my first century I will definitely be riding with a group.

I will admit to going a little crazy the first time I did 50 or 55, can't remember but my longest distance before that was 25. This was July in Houston I was on a sponsored ride but not with anybody and very uncomfortable and hot - 98 degrees or so.  I was talking to myself and the animals on the side of the road, felt like the longest ride of my life.  That is the same ride I did 78 last year and it was awesome.  Great company can make all the difference. Of course fitness helps as well.