SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! (Page 20)

Aero camp was AWESOME! No data for about a week, but I'll share some quick highlights. I'm working on a full write-up. Some pictures posted to my Facebook (Elaine Kratz) and twitter (@ratherbeswimmin)

First, we spent two hours on track bikes learning how to ride. This was a total blast, and I wish I had a track nearby.

Moved on to a 3D Retul Fit Report. I had the WORST fit out of the bunch, despite being fit by a local coach. We dropped my saddle ~2cm right away. My seat WAS too high!

After that, we discussed what runs we'd like to do. Each run was a warm-up lap, a lap where you coasted on the back stretch to zero the meter, and then 10 laps of testing. As we got into things like helmets, they'd pull you from the track if the helmet looked bad in the first few laps.

We dropped my saddle, slammed my handlebars, swapped my stem, narrowed my pads... This took a good 4-5 runs to settle in, and they think I need a stem that can get me lower) Once we got to a place where those started looking good, we tested a few other things:

-bottle position (torpedo-style mount beat frame mount - this is "generally" the most aero-neutral)

-1 piece vs 2 piece tri suit (no difference for me! YMMV)

-helmets (the LG P09 was best for a lot of people, usually it varies a lot based on position, but this was overall a very aero helmet compared to my LG Rocket and a Rudy Wingspan)

In the end, Brian from Accelerate3 said "the new fit saves you 50w of drag. Only a 30% increase of free speed". Seriously. I was THAT bad!

A couple other observations:

-lower is better, until it's not

-speedsuits are only good if they fit WELL, and then, only for most people. there was this super speedy 17-year old (Jack, http://jtolandtri.com/ follow this kid. He's going to do amazing things), his arms were just too skinny for the speedsuit.

-the Trek Speed Concept also had really good numbers overall - similar to the LG P09 - it just seemed to be low drag, no matter what - same with the TorHans aero bottle

-shorter cranks aren't just a new trend - seems like they are a great way to go, especially for us shorter people. They suggested swapping my 172.5 for 165 or 160. 

-things that look aero, or are aero for one person, might not actually be aero for you. for example, a girl had her torpedo-mount bottle sticking up really high. they put a smaller bottle in and changed the angle of the cage. it LOOKED faster, but it was slower. It even surprised the guys running the clinic.

So, I guess, if you're looking for free speed: 1. get a Retul fit. #'s don't lie. 2. Check out this camp. He does testing starting at $450. I, luckily, got a steeply discounted entry into this, but if you're invested in triathlon, it's a good use of money. And it was a total blast! http://ero-sports.com/ They stressed that most people could find a ~1mph improvement. 

So, if you've got questions, I can try to answer Also, if you're selling 160 or 165 cranks... and once I get the specs from Brian at Accelerate3, I'll be looking for a stem and possibly a new cockpit... 

ETA: Head position/turtle-ing produced no noticeable difference with my position 

Aero camp was AWESOME! No data for about a week, but I'll share some quick highlights. I'm working on a full write-up. Some pictures posted to my Facebook (Elaine Kratz) and twitter (@ratherbeswimmin)

First, we spent two hours on track bikes learning how to ride. This was a total blast, and I wish I had a track nearby.

Moved on to a 3D Retul Fit Report. I had the WORST fit out of the bunch, despite being fit by a local coach. We dropped my saddle ~2cm right away. My seat WAS too high!

After that, we discussed what runs we'd like to do. Each run was a warm-up lap, a lap where you coasted on the back stretch to zero the meter, and then 10 laps of testing. As we got into things like helmets, they'd pull you from the track if the helmet looked bad in the first few laps.

We dropped my saddle, slammed my handlebars, swapped my stem, narrowed my pads... This took a good 4-5 runs to settle in, and they think I need a stem that can get me lower) Once we got to a place where those started looking good, we tested a few other things:

-bottle position (torpedo-style mount beat frame mount - this is "generally" the most aero-neutral)

-1 piece vs 2 piece tri suit (no difference for me! YMMV)

-helmets (the LG P09 was best for a lot of people, usually it varies a lot based on position, but this was overall a very aero helmet compared to my LG Rocket and a Rudy Wingspan)

In the end, Brian from Accelerate3 said "the new fit saves you 50w of drag. Only a 30% increase of free speed". Seriously. I was THAT bad!

A couple other observations:

-lower is better, until it's not

-speedsuits are only good if they fit WELL, and then, only for most people. there was this super speedy 17-year old (Jack, http://jtolandtri.com/ follow this kid. He's going to do amazing things), his arms were just too skinny for the speedsuit.

-the Trek Speed Concept also had really good numbers overall - similar to the LG P09 - it just seemed to be low drag, no matter what - same with the TorHans aero bottle

-shorter cranks aren't just a new trend - seems like they are a great way to go, especially for us shorter people. They suggested swapping my 172.5 for 165 or 160. 

-things that look aero, or are aero for one person, might not actually be aero for you. for example, a girl had her torpedo-mount bottle sticking up really high. they put a smaller bottle in and changed the angle of the cage. it LOOKED faster, but it was slower. It even surprised the guys running the clinic.

So, I guess, if you're looking for free speed: 1. get a Retul fit. #'s don't lie. 2. Check out this camp. He does testing starting at $450. I, luckily, got a steeply discounted entry into this, but if you're invested in triathlon, it's a good use of money. And it was a total blast! http://ero-sports.com/ They stressed that most people could find a ~1mph improvement. 

So, if you've got questions, I can try to answer Also, if you're selling 160 or 165 cranks... and once I get the specs from Brian at Accelerate3, I'll be looking for a stem and possibly a new cockpit... 

ETA: Head position/turtle-ing produced no noticeable difference with my position 

Very cool!  Sounds like a fun experience.  I'm curious if you'll notice any power gains from the new bike fit (in addition to reduced drag).

I have a set of 155mm cranks that I'm looking to sell....a little shorter than the 160-165 that you asked for, but I liked them (till I got my PM, which didn't have a 155 option). 

Hey Elaine, That sound like it was totally worth it.

How did a water bottle in between the aero bar test out?

Like this.....

Elaine - when I read you were going to aero camp, wondered if it was that one.  I live about 20 minutes from the velodrome and Jim M is my fitter.   Its a great resource, and sounds like an incredible opportunity.   I have friends that ride there weekly but I have not taken the plunge yet.

This was "aero neutral" - no real advantage, but no real disadvantage. Better than on your frame, and generally better than behind the seat.

Seems like it's the new trend for tri saddles to come with an integrated bottle mount option (specialized sitero which I know you tried as well).  I googled some pictures of the Tritone and the bottle mounts look like they are mounted pretty wide.  Unless you've got a large butt, the tops of the bottles may catch some wind.

I'm not an engineer, but I'm sure someone could fabricate something so that it can accomodate just one bottle straight behind the seat.

http://www.xlab-usa.com/delta-single-system.html

Not sure about all of them but I use the 300 on my Cervelo and it has 3 adjustments, so you can tuck it in pretty close even if your saddle is on the front mount point.

Wondering about the aero drawback/benefit.  I run a BTA torpedo style, and a torhans VR triangle on the downtube.  So I need 1 more bottle for HIM.  At Miami, it was so difficult to get the flimsy plastic hand up bottles back in the BTS zip tie cage, due to the angle.  I sat up for a good 60 seconds twice trying to get it in there (only once successfully) and got passed by a few as I was doing so.    So I think perhaps being able to easily reach the 2 bottle tritone setup (even while staying in aero) evens out that time sitting up?  maybe?   Also the risk of a littering if the bottle flies out like it did at Miami.

The two cage mounts are independent.  Only need one bottle.  Thoughts about mounting just one side for HIM?   Would that make it less aero??

Has anyone tried the Specialized Sitero bottle system yet?

I'm thinking about it....

For behind the seat mounts, you want them as "hidden" as possible. Up high & tight under the seat. The less you can physically see it from straight-on, the better. 

Or, you can look at the X-Lab Torpedo Bottle or something similar, to easily refill that BTA bottle.

Another swim for me this am:

I simply cannot believe how much faster I am in the water this month, which I credit mainly due to 3 things:

1. Focusing on catch and not glide.
2. Better timed 2 beat kick.
3. Swimming more non-freestyle, which is helping with #1.

My easy pace has dropped from 1:35/100 yards to mid 1:20s.

Amazed how much I am loving swimming these days!

Anyone see this announcement yet? http://rev3tri.com/news/rev3-rush-brings-new-race-format-to-rev3-series/

Rev3 is doing a super-sprint draft-legal series in Richmond, VA on Memorial Day weekend. I might have to go. Finally, being a swimmer will pay off big time!

Good deal Fred.  I have had similar results lately with:

1. Swim Frequency (4x per week)
2. Swim Volume (3000-4500 yds/session)
3. Swimming Harder

I am sure you have been doing those as well in addition to the 3 you mentioned.

Wow, interesting!  Balls to the wall for 25 mins?

Got a 300 & 400 IM into tonights swim.

(Also can't let us fall to page 2)