Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club (Page 21)

That sounds like a good plan, Salty.  I'm glad you're going to get some downtime, and that it is coinciding with Christmas and New Year's sounds pretty nice. 

I also wanted to comment on your strong Q session yesterday, I read that this morning and couldn't comment at the time, but that must feel good to have such a strong session with such a strong group.  Look out Nationals! 

Man, I would loooooove to go to that race (to watch).  I could even do something ridiculous to try to distract JT so you could get some extra time with LF;) 

The question is, can you resist the peer pressure to keep running through your transition period.  C'mon, EVERYBODY is doin' it. 

In all seriousness, I think that's a smart plan.

Ah, we make such a good traveling team!!! That would be a perfect plan. You forgot to mention that you wanted to go to Bend because they have like 15 microbreweries within walking distance. The after party is gonna be ca-rraaayzy. Can you see it now? Thousands of low-body fat % people, fresh off a race drinking microbrews. What a shyte show I actually have a couple friends coming down to watch/drink. It will be amazing.

Yeah, I had it in my head I was going to just go straight from XC into M. I don't even know why I was thinking that. I did an 18 week build last year and had a mental note that I'd like to try a little bit shorter (I felt I had peaked a bit early.) So it's perfect. And like you said, it's great for the holidays. NOt that I won't be running some, but then it's not another obligation so much.

Oh there will be running, but it will be totally unstructured. There will be some days off, too. For sure. Despite what you might think, I like days off Also, I have a higher tolerance to peer pressure than .... others

Woman, if I wasn't leaving the country, I would be looking at tickets right now.  That sounds effing awesome!

You've got good excuse though, I'll give you that

I've been once but it was to Sydney. It was an amazing experience. 

Also, LF recently posted this pic of Bend:

Good thing spikes are already part of the sport.

Nice pic, but this southerner would be on a treadmill that day.

Gotta do it every now and then. The more peaceful winter wonderland type conditions can be some of the best days to run! Only takes a few minutes to build up enough heat.

I love running in a light snow, as long as there's no wind.  And not toooooo cold.  Otherwise, I'm with Matt on the treadmill.

I saw one of his a couple of years ago...they're pretty damn funny. 

I look more at the potential for ice, how dark it is, and the amount of traffic. Weekend morning when it melts on road, but stays off, yeah, I'm going outside.

You don't understand how crazy people get about snow here.  At the CHANCE of snow all schools close down, gas stations are flooded, and bread and milk within the entire metro area is sold out.  If it does snow here, then all hell breaks loose.

Well, and plus it's quite difficult to run an XC National Championship on the treadmill

Haha! Have heard some about it when my dad took a kayaking trip down in Alabama one year.

Some guy where he was eating:" You know, people think you're crazy going out on the water in this weather."

Dad:"What do you mean? It's 55-60."

Guy, "Yeah, it's COLD!"

Also a discussion about the freak snow they had. No snow plows or any equipment as they really don't get any. Rationale of what to do was along the lines of "God brought it in and God will take it away."

Hahahaha. That's like here. We get some snow on occasion but we aren't very well equipped to handle it between limited plow/de-icer etc and a very hilly city. That plus people's inability to drive in it.

I actually am glad that I run commute because when it snows, it is most definitely faster/safer to just run to just run home than to sit in traffic

Brrrr!! We have record lows over the weekend.  I have a 10k tomorrow and it is supposed to be 19 degrees with wind.  This is pretty unfamiliar territory for me for a race.  It's a tough course not expecting a whole lot but is there a general rule for pacing adjustments when it is that cold?

I'm gonna go ahead and say run fast...   I really don't have anything helpful to say except my run tonight in -5C (23F) and wind was bloody cold to start.  Dress warm and enjoy the sun.

Dress for maybe 30 degrees warmer than the expected windchill.  I ran in similar weather a couple of weeks ago and wore insulated running tights and wool socks, a UA cold gear base layer with a t-shirt over it, plus head/ear cover and gloves.  I went back and forth on covering my nose/mouth to get warmer air in but decided against it.

As for pacing, the cold air tends to burn my lungs until I'm good and warmed up, so I would recommend two things:  1) get a decent warm-up in and stay as warm as possible up until the last few minutes before the start, and 2) ease into the race - run that first 1/2 to 3/4 mile at maybe M pace until you don't feel frozen anymore. 

I guess like everything, cold tolerance is a personal thing...I'm kinda OK with it, but definitely don't like it.  I have a hard time getting warmed up and loose so I'd rather a race be a tad warm than cold...I think I'm in the minority on that one. 

Good luck today, Steve!

While there was a certain amount of HTFU with the weather, the 10k didn't go so well overall.  It is a very tough two loop course with two hills on each loop which I figured might account for a minute and the weather maybe a minute but I was four minutes overall off where I should have been.  I ended up closer to HM pace.

My last two recent 5k's have averaged 21:30 so even 46 for 10k would be a little conservative according to the calculators.  I paced the first lap well and was right about 23:00 but then the first hill of the second lap zapped me.  I recovered and ran the last mile ok but 4 and 5 were horrible.  Granted I could not feel my toes at this point and my thighs were numb but I thought I had a little more in me then that.

I think more tempo work would help but I'm not ready to go there.  I have one more 5k in about three weeks that I want to do well in and then I transition to my marathon plan (March 1st race).  I don't know, maybe the extra miles in the marathon build will help me out.  After that I need to really work on 10k distance if I want to get  anywhere close to qualifying for AG Nationals.  So the question is are tempo and I workouts the key to a good 10k or is it just getting more miles in? 

Heh, you are opening a whole can of worms there re: "how can I get faster" thread in TT.

There are many ways to get faster in the form of different types of training stress.

I PRed in everything from 5K to M in every Marathon training cycle I did with just easy volume. So, there is my experience. But yeah, more intensity types of workouts with lots of tempo runs and longer reps are going to be pretty specifically good workouts for 10K. We do very similar workouts for our 6K XC stuff. Have you looked at Daniel's plan? Remember, as you add more intensity (and longer tempo runs) it's a good idea to have the proper amount of volume to support it.

What do you feel is your limitor? 

I'm more on the other side of the spectrum where only two of my training days (well 3 if you count the long run) are ran at an "easy" pace.  My other days have intervals at either 10k pace, 5k pace, or all out.  

I'm definitely in the camp that says you don't need to run 70mpw to run a quick marathon.  Heck I have only flirted with 50 up to this point.

I do wonder though, with his injuries and the fact that he will already be marathon training, if it's more appropriate to run on the more mileage vs intensity side.

Steve, have you had injury issues with mileage? Do you have a plan set for M training? 

I'm sorry your race didn't go the way you wanted it to.  Maybe the cold is a bigger factor than you're thinking--did you feel really warmed up?

I guess I would just caution you with the intensity based on that flirt with the achilles/calf thing.  I think you had pretty much decided that too much intensity too soon had contributed to that, right? 

Part of our conversation in the "faster" thread was about how different athletes need different things.  I think that's important, and maybe the best take-home from that thread.  As we get older, we really need to take that into account with intensity.  I know I could do things both in terms of volume and intensity (even just 10 years ago) that I just can't do now. 

You've had a remarkable recovery from some really serious health stuff.  On the one hand, I bet that can make you feel invincible in many ways--and I hope it does :)  OTOH, that wasn't too long ago, and I hope you're giving yourself a little latitude when it comes to training and expectations.  You've had some really remarkable times and improvements. An "off" race once in a while, though a bummer, is totally OK too.