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Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 (Page 24)
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 2010-12-21 8:37 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Elite  7783      PEI, Canada |  Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011Completed the most recent 6x4 workout earlier this evening. I hit my target wattage and managed to up the last one by 2w but I gotta say I had to work freakin' hard to squeeze out those 2w!!! This is good stuff, thanks Jorge. |
| 2010-12-24 4:59 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Expert 950 Ann Arbor | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 I just finished the week 5 tests. Old 3MP:267 20MP:216 CP:207 2.94w/kg New: 3MP:289 20MP:227 CP:216 3.07w/kg I'm pretty happy with my improvements, considering I haven't been doing the optional long rides. I hope to build up the fortitude to start doing them though. I need the extra stress to reach my goal CP of 250 watts before the snow melts |
| 2010-12-24 6:02 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Week # 9 is up! Currently I am away traveling visiting my family in Cancun, Mex hence, if you have a question please use my twitter or Facebook (both on my profile) and I'll get back to you ASAP! Feliz Navidad Amigos! |
| 2010-12-26 2:38 PM in reply to: #3260873 |
| 48 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Hooray that we're in our last week (I think) of the dreaded 6x4's! I've found I just can't do them. After the first week, once I'd added a few watts, I've been stuck trying to do these at about 110% of CP, which is definitely a VO2 workout. The short recovery (which I bumped up to a full minute) just isn't enough. I can do three of these, but then need a break. It's been kind of a depressing month of failing to complete the main workout each week. Anyone else having as much trouble with these as I am? |
| 2010-12-27 2:01 PM in reply to: #3261985 |
| 37 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Flagstaff30 - 2010-12-26 2:38 PM Hooray that we're in our last week (I think) of the dreaded 6x4's! I've found I just can't do them. After the first week, once I'd added a few watts, I've been stuck trying to do these at about 110% of CP, which is definitely a VO2 workout. The short recovery (which I bumped up to a full minute) just isn't enough. I can do three of these, but then need a break. It's been kind of a depressing month of failing to complete the main workout each week. Anyone else having as much trouble with these as I am? I find the 6x4's to be hard but I complete them. When I do them, I am all in that's for sure and I find I have to be mentally ready for the challenge. Maybe you are having a fueling issue or need to try them at another time of the day, if you haven't already. Dig deep and it'll come! |
| 2010-12-28 9:06 AM in reply to: #3263093 |
| 48 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 smarchildon - 2010-12-27 1:01 PM I find the 6x4's to be hard but I complete them. When I do them, I am all in that's for sure and I find I have to be mentally ready for the challenge. Maybe you are having a fueling issue or need to try them at another time of the day, if you haven't already. It's mainly an issue of not having enough time to recover between intervals. I'm not surprised, as this is a pretty hard effort, clearly in the VO2max range, which would normally have on the order of 3 - 5 minutes recovery. Shouldn't be a fueling issue as it's not that long a workout that would cause real depletion, and I'm not doing my workouts straight out of bed before breakfast as some have mentioned. I suspect part of my problem is that I had a solid improvement in my 20' power when I tested at the start of the month and I'm still kind of solidifying that base to work from. I'm looking forward to (and dreading) next week's tests. |
| 2010-12-28 10:04 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Expert 668 Lancaster, PA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Today I start the 6x4's and getting psyched for it. I've found it challenging trying to maintain hr at the described level. After downloading the data on the computer- numbers show my avg was slight lower than the recommended. Anyway, I am glad I am doing this -'cause I need it! Thomas |
| 2010-12-28 12:00 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Veteran 285 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Week 5 test. Using the power curve for KK. Exact avg speed as week 1. Lot of changes on the bike setup so not sure if that had an effect. At least it didn't go down. I have lost a little weight. So my W/kg did go up. |
| 2010-12-28 12:01 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 I'm a little behind you guys, did the 20:00 CP test this a.m. Holy cripes, haven't done a test in a long time (and never with power). Last 5 minutes was hanging on for dear life. I've entered the numbers in the spreadsheet, but I assume that "final" CP won't be accurate until the 3 minute test? Just guesstimating the 3 minute test to be about 50W higher, looks like my rides are going to get a bit harder than my pre-test estimates of percentages....... :^ |
| 2010-12-28 1:46 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Week 9's 6x4' session is done. I was reduced into such a state of delirium by the final interval that I was unable to do simple math and went for 5' instead of just 4' and didn't notice until I uploaded into WKO+ !! Edited by axteraa 2010-12-28 1:47 PM |
| 2010-12-28 2:26 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Veteran 170 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 First time actually to get all 6x4's in!! I think the first time I did only four and just about died |
| 2010-12-28 2:45 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Extreme Veteran 590 Northern Virginia | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Those 6x4's are murder especially if your training schedule is interrupted. I had to take off the week of 12/13 due to (minor) surgery, and for the last 2 weeks (including this morning) I can only hit the target rate on the 1st and last reps (last one was through sheer brute sufferfest, thought I would pass out). I'm already dreading Week 9 next week. If anyone thinks missing a week results in only a "minor" loss of fitness, the 6x4's will show the fitness loss is not so "minor". |
| 2010-12-28 2:57 PM in reply to: #3264265 |
Master 1572 Baltimore | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 golfpro - 2010-12-28 11:04 AMToday I start the 6x4's and getting psyched for it. I've found it challenging trying to maintain hr at the described level. After downloading the data on the computer- numbers show my avg was slight lower than the recommended. Anyway, I am glad I am doing this -'cause I need it! Thomas ETA: interesting...not sure what happened to my post...see the next one. Edited by jsiegs 2010-12-28 2:58 PM |
| 2010-12-28 2:57 PM in reply to: #3264265 |
Master 1572 Baltimore | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 golfpro - 2010-12-28 11:04 AM Today I start the 6x4's and getting psyched for it. I've found it challenging trying to maintain hr at the described level. After downloading the data on the computer- numbers show my avg was slight lower than the recommended. Anyway, I am glad I am doing this -'cause I need it! Thomas You may not have been too low - maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong in my logic here, but given that HR will lag a bit (I'd guess about 30 sec to a minute on these sets), I'd expect my HR avg for a set this short to be a little lower than the target. If the average was right on, then you were under at the beginning (due to lag) and had to overshoot at the end to make up for the lag and get the "right" average. On longer sets, the average will get closer since the lag has less effect. This is why I bought a powermeter |
| 2010-12-28 7:04 PM in reply to: #3264507 |
Regular 108 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 ChrisM - 2010-12-28 12:01 PM Just guesstimating the 3 minute test to be about 50W higher, looks like my rides are going to get a bit harder than my pre-test estimates of percentages....... :^ I've tested twice now and in both cases the 3M is 100+ higher. |
| 2010-12-29 7:53 AM in reply to: #3264872 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 jsiegs - 2010-12-28 3:57 PM golfpro - 2010-12-28 11:04 AM Today I start the 6x4's and getting psyched for it. I've found it challenging trying to maintain hr at the described level. After downloading the data on the computer- numbers show my avg was slight lower than the recommended. Anyway, I am glad I am doing this -'cause I need it! Thomas You may not have been too low - maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong in my logic here, but given that HR will lag a bit (I'd guess about 30 sec to a minute on these sets), I'd expect my HR avg for a set this short to be a little lower than the target. If the average was right on, then you were under at the beginning (due to lag) and had to overshoot at the end to make up for the lag and get the "right" average. On longer sets, the average will get closer since the lag has less effect. This is why I bought a powermeter For me personally that would not be correct. For the first 1-2 intervals I agree, but 3-6, I disagree. The rest time is not enough to let you recover, and the intervals at 4min are plenty long allowing the HR to get to it's desired level. |
| 2010-12-29 9:03 AM in reply to: #3265738 |
Expert 668 Lancaster, PA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 GoFaster - 2010-12-28 8:53 AM jsiegs - 2010-12-28 3:57 PM golfpro - 2010-12-28 11:04 AM Today I start the 6x4's and getting psyched for it. I've found it challenging trying to maintain hr at the described level. After downloading the data on the computer- numbers show my avg was slight lower than the recommended. Anyway, I am glad I am doing this -'cause I need it! Thomas You may not have been too low - maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong in my logic here, but given that HR will lag a bit (I'd guess about 30 sec to a minute on these sets), I'd expect my HR avg for a set this short to be a little lower than the target. If the average was right on, then you were under at the beginning (due to lag) and had to overshoot at the end to make up for the lag and get the "right" average. On longer sets, the average will get closer since the lag has less effect. This is why I bought a powermeter For me personally that would not be correct. For the first 1-2 intervals I agree, but 3-6, I disagree. The rest time is not enough to let you recover, and the intervals at 4min are plenty long allowing the HR to get to it's desired level. The power meter is definitely in my bucket list for this year. In the meantime I'll deal with the hr for now. With the Ipod blaring, tv on, fan full blast, and surround sound music thumping the walls -Yesterday was my first 6X4 and I tried my best to stay in within the numbers (149-157 HR). I wasn't sure how this was going to fare but ended up surviving the sets. One thing I found interesting was that it took 2mins for the legs to get use to the pounding and lactic build up in the legs and the last two minutes the pain/whatever sensation you have in the legs was not really there. It was more about breathing and maintaining pace. I was able to get into the HR zone quickly in the sets but not in the recovery. Like GoFaster said, not enough time. In two of the break sets, I cheated and took extra 15 seconds to catch my breath but I did not do it going into the last set. The last set where Jorge says push a little harder- I tried and I did push just a hair the first 2mins and the last two minutes was an all out sprint TT. I saw my heart rate go above 174, sweating in buckets, gasping, yelling, hocking, and grunting like a Hyena. I must have been really loud because my wife came running down the stairs to the basement to see if everything was ok. She thought I had fallen or was having a heart attack. Thanks G! Going into it I had no idea was to expect, now I do, I have to let Maureen know I am doing the 6X4 and not to worry.. Have a great day everyone, thomas |
| 2010-12-29 9:51 AM in reply to: #3265909 |
Master 1572 Baltimore | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 golfpro - 2010-12-29 10:03 AM GoFaster - 2010-12-28 8:53 AM jsiegs - 2010-12-28 3:57 PM golfpro - 2010-12-28 11:04 AM Today I start the 6x4's and getting psyched for it. I've found it challenging trying to maintain hr at the described level. After downloading the data on the computer- numbers show my avg was slight lower than the recommended. Anyway, I am glad I am doing this -'cause I need it! Thomas You may not have been too low - maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong in my logic here, but given that HR will lag a bit (I'd guess about 30 sec to a minute on these sets), I'd expect my HR avg for a set this short to be a little lower than the target. If the average was right on, then you were under at the beginning (due to lag) and had to overshoot at the end to make up for the lag and get the "right" average. On longer sets, the average will get closer since the lag has less effect. This is why I bought a powermeter For me personally that would not be correct. For the first 1-2 intervals I agree, but 3-6, I disagree. The rest time is not enough to let you recover, and the intervals at 4min are plenty long allowing the HR to get to it's desired level. The power meter is definitely in my bucket list for this year. In the meantime I'll deal with the hr for now. With the Ipod blaring, tv on, fan full blast, and surround sound music thumping the walls -Yesterday was my first 6X4 and I tried my best to stay in within the numbers (149-157 HR). I wasn't sure how this was going to fare but ended up surviving the sets. One thing I found interesting was that it took 2mins for the legs to get use to the pounding and lactic build up in the legs and the last two minutes the pain/whatever sensation you have in the legs was not really there. It was more about breathing and maintaining pace. I was able to get into the HR zone quickly in the sets but not in the recovery. Like GoFaster said, not enough time. In two of the break sets, I cheated and took extra 15 seconds to catch my breath but I did not do it going into the last set. The last set where Jorge says push a little harder- I tried and I did push just a hair the first 2mins and the last two minutes was an all out sprint TT. I saw my heart rate go above 174, sweating in buckets, gasping, yelling, hocking, and grunting like a Hyena. I must have been really loud because my wife came running down the stairs to the basement to see if everything was ok. She thought I had fallen or was having a heart attack. Thanks G! Going into it I had no idea was to expect, now I do, I have to let Maureen know I am doing the 6X4 and not to worry.. Have a great day everyone, thomas based on the bolded, you may be doing what I used to do when using HR - going too hard at first to get your HR up, then easing up to the right effort to keep it in the zone. So I was going too hard for a bit (maybe not too bad a thing though). Going harder first was sometimes the only way I got HR up to the right zone in sets less than 10 min or so. I could see my garmin data after and see my speed higher for the first few minutes, then level off when i hit the HR target. I'm not saying you're doing it, but perhaps just something to watch out for. In these workouts, it takes a LONG time for my HR zone to catch up to the corresponding power zone, if it ever does. Again, this is all me personally, and my n=1 observations, but just thought I'd mention it as something to watch out for. |
| 2010-12-29 10:48 AM in reply to: #3265909 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 golfpro, curious, what make and type of trainer are you using? |
| 2010-12-29 1:53 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Expert 1066 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Jorge, I need your help. I did both the 20 and 3 minute tests this week. Sorry, I know I'm several weeks behind. During the prep weeks I've been using a CP of 190, which I pulled out of a hat. It seems to be a little low based on RPE. Golden Cheetah says my CP should be 215, which seems reasonable to me. GC is pulling this from several months worth of ride history. Based on my test results this week, my CP is 173. I cant figure out what caused such a large discrepancy. What am I doing wrong here? I think 173 watts is going to be way to low, considering I've been using 190 watts and it seemed low. Any suggestions. |
| 2010-12-29 2:37 PM in reply to: #3266024 |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Just my n=1 experience related to HR training and this program regarding the 6x4' intervals at 100-105%LTHR. The last week before beginning the 6x4' intervals we did a 30 minute TT. This 30 minute TT is essentially a 103%LTHR effort level....(since we multiply by .97 to get our actual LTHR)....so right in the middle of our target HR for the 6x4s. On my first session of 6x4s I basically went at the same RPE (effort level) as the 30 minute TT and was able to just push a touch more on my last interval. Basically using this example to say that your effort level on the 6x4s should be very similar to your 30 minute TT effort initially. As we gain fitness, we are able push those a little bit harder and we are most likely to see a nice gain in the next 30 minute TT after 4 weeks of performing those intervals. For the poster that mentioned not being able to finish the 6x4s, if you were able to finish the 30 minute TT then you should be able to finish the 6x4s without a problem. It is likely that you are pushing way too hard to get your HR up quickly. Just my .02. |
| 2010-12-29 4:27 PM in reply to: #3266159 |
Expert 668 Lancaster, PA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Donto - 2010-12-28 11:48 AM golfpro, curious, what make and type of trainer are you using? Mag trainer |
| 2010-12-29 4:33 PM in reply to: #3266674 |
Expert 668 Lancaster, PA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 rymac - 2010-12-28 3:37 PM Just my n=1 experience related to HR training and this program regarding the 6x4' intervals at 100-105%LTHR. The last week before beginning the 6x4' intervals we did a 30 minute TT. This 30 minute TT is essentially a 103%LTHR effort level....(since we multiply by .97 to get our actual LTHR)....so right in the middle of our target HR for the 6x4s. On my first session of 6x4s I basically went at the same RPE (effort level) as the 30 minute TT and was able to just push a touch more on my last interval. Basically using this example to say that your effort level on the 6x4s should be very similar to your 30 minute TT effort initially. As we gain fitness, we are able push those a little bit harder and we are most likely to see a nice gain in the next 30 minute TT after 4 weeks of performing those intervals. For the poster that mentioned not being able to finish the 6x4s, if you were able to finish the 30 minute TT then you should be able to finish the 6x4s without a problem. It is likely that you are pushing way too hard to get your HR up quickly. Just my .02. Good! that is basically what I did- glad to see I am on the right track! thomas |
| 2010-12-30 12:09 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Did the week 9 6x4's and unfortunately failed a bit. 2min into the 5th interval my legs just hit a jello wall and I couldn't/didn't will them to keep going, I cruised for the final two minutes, recovered and then pushed the 6th set. I'm just a bit disappointed that I didn't "man" up and get it done for the 5th interval. The HR was actually tracking lower than last week, but the legs just didn't have it in them - or maybe it was the mind playing tricks on me since I've up the exertion by about 15 watts since we started doing these. Either way, I'll be interested to see what I can do the next time we do the 20min test - survive or crumble. |
| 2010-12-30 9:10 AM in reply to: #3267425 |
| New user 3 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 GoFaster - 2010-12-30 12:09 AM ... or maybe it was the mind playing tricks on me since I've up the exertion by about 15 watts since we started doing these. Based on my experience during the 6x4's yesterday, I think the increased wattage is definitely a major factor. I felt great during the 6x4's last week (10 watts higher than my last 20m test) but when I tried to increase the avg wattage for each interval by 4 watts this week I just couldn't hold it. I was able to complete all six but the averages for each interval were basically in-line with last week. However, I always seem to be able to suck it up on the last interval and push higher. Maybe I need to develop a little more mental fortitude in the early intervals. All in all, I'm loving the the 6x4's. They hurt while I'm doing them but I enjoy the feeling of a great workout in my legs afterward. |
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