BT Development Mentor Program Archives » SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Rss Feed  
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2013-07-09 2:33 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by ChrisM
Originally posted by axteraa

Chris, what is generating those numbers and is your threshold set right in the software?  If I'm not mistaken, IF = NP / Threshold and the numbers you are getting for IF don't jive with that.   205 / 294 = .70 not .73

My only suggestion to avoid the blowup is to get that VI a lot lower.  

TSS on #1 is likely higher because the ride was a lot longer.

Garmin Connect.  I [wrongly] assumed that if the FTP was set in the 910 device, then the FTP would be read by garminconnect, apparently not as that has it set at a default number of 400.  But even then, if it was reading 400 then IF is still off, as it would be .51 if it were going off of 400.

Hmm, that's how it has worked for both my 800 and 810, the FTP in the device is the one that mattered.

The VI does seem high on those, but how have your training rides compared to races? My races tend to be quite noticeably closer as I won't have stops for various reasons. If you're not really sure, try to get big segments that have no or fewer interruptions like that if you can. Spikes can drive up NP faster, but on the flip-side the coasting will drag down AP faster. Both cause more separation.



2013-07-09 2:47 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

So, went to training peaks and got the numbers there and did the IF myself.  Add'l info, ride #3 was the initial long ride, ride #2 was intentionally over IM target, ride #1 was intended to be at IM targets.  So now even though #1 was the longest, the TSS is the lowest, and more in line with the NP?

 


(1)
5:55
100 mi
6,000 elevation
AP 178
NP 204
VI 1.15
IF  .69
TSS   286
 
(2)
5:28
89 mi
7,000 elevation
AP 190
NP  226
VI  1.16
IF .76
TSS  321
 
(3)
4:58
89 mi
5,100 elevation
AP 193
NP  219
VI 1.13
IF  .74
TSS 311
2013-07-09 3:02 PM
in reply to: brigby1

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2013-07-09 3:14 PM
in reply to: TSimone

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

On reflection (I know - a rarity, but this isn't ST after all), I can at least see both sides of the wetsuit thing, although for me it's still just a gut response to not wear it if it's whatever you call it when it's not legal but it's legal but you won't get awards but you can race anyway. 

As my form is less than - ahem - perfectly balanced in the water (no, really), the wetsuit has some serious speed mojo for me - and it's just so much easier to swim with it, too.  So, I appreciate the "woobie effect" where people want to swim with it (I certainly want to), even if I don't share it to the point of swimming with it over 78F or whatever.

Anywho, given my feeling on it, I guess I now need to buy a speedsuit.  SWEET!!  Tongue out

As for tucking a gel up the leg, that's brilliant.  My one-piece (for short course) has the swim-lids on the pockets, and I put 1 or 2 in there for sprints or Oly's, respectively, but gels have snuck out in T1 before on me.  Might have to try the "garter stash" approach and transfer once settled on the bike.

As for PM, IF, NP etc., man I really miss my PM when on the tri bike.

Oh, wait - that means another purchase?!?  SWEET!!

I'm looking at the Riken, but am conflicted on different advice on crank arm length.  My road and tri bikes are both currently 172.5mm, but my fitter recommended a 170 (or even less) crank length for the tri bike.  Others have said it matters not.  Thoughts??

Thanks!
Matt

2013-07-09 3:22 PM
in reply to: 0

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Wow, a DP that had a several minute delay.  Someone must have reset the matrix...

M



Edited by mcmanusclan5 2013-07-09 3:23 PM
2013-07-09 3:29 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.


2013-07-09 11:34 PM
in reply to: TSimone

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Fun day. Rode to Sufferfests HHNF, 2 x 20' in sweet spot range and then picked it up to 390 for the 3+ min TTT. Then as soon as I went outside for a short transition run sweat picked up dramatically. Even with the change I was still pretty wet inside 20 minutes of fairly easy running.

Masters had a bunch of fast 25's to work on speed. Somehow I was lined up next to coach in the next lane. At the masters national meet, she placed in the top 5 for a number of free and fly events, including winning the 1,000. So, um, ouch.

2013-07-10 6:21 AM
in reply to: brigby1

Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by brigby1

Fun day. Rode to Sufferfests HHNF, 2 x 20' in sweet spot range and then picked it up to 390 for the 3+ min TTT. Then as soon as I went outside for a short transition run sweat picked up dramatically. Even with the change I was still pretty wet inside 20 minutes of fairly easy running.

Masters had a bunch of fast 25's to work on speed. Somehow I was lined up next to coach in the next lane. At the masters national meet, she placed in the top 5 for a number of free and fly events, including winning the 1,000. So, um, ouch.

lol, only in our world would that level of suffering be called a fun day.

2013-07-10 7:22 AM
in reply to: bzgl40

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
I still have that stupid-happy feeling from the swim this morning, but am glad I don't have any kind of swimming planned for today!
2013-07-10 8:00 AM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

My road and tri bikes are both currently 172.5mm, but my fitter recommended a 170 (or even less) crank length for the tri bike.  Others have said it matters not.  Thoughts??

Thanks!
Matt




If you are very low in front, and you find you are constrained, having trouble to breath or feel you are having trouble bringing your knee over the top, it may be worth going shorter.

I certainly will go a bit shorter next time. I wouldn't run out and change my PM for shorter, but if I did have to switch, for sure I would go from 172.5 to maybe as low as 165.
2013-07-10 8:00 AM
in reply to: 0

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Sorry been MIA

Post Tremblant I had a bit of a health issue. It's slowly coming back to normal. For a few days there I actually thought I wasn't 25 anymore.

Edited by marcag 2013-07-10 8:02 AM


2013-07-10 8:08 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by ChrisM

So, went to training peaks and got the numbers there and did the IF myself.  Add'l info, ride #3 was the initial long ride, ride #2 was intentionally over IM target, ride #1 was intended to be at IM targets.  So now even though #1 was the longest, the TSS is the lowest, and more in line with the NP?

 


(1)
5:55
100 mi
6,000 elevation
AP 178
NP 204
VI 1.15
IF  .69
TSS   286
 
(2)
5:28
89 mi
7,000 elevation
AP 190
NP  226
VI  1.16
IF .76
TSS  321
 
(3)
4:58
89 mi
5,100 elevation
AP 193
NP  219
VI 1.13
IF  .74
TSS 311



Long story short....if you ride 2 or 3 in your IM you will probably walk a lot. Look at the chart Ben sent you.
if you ride 1, you will have a better run

If you ride 1 but lower that VI and get AP to NP closer, you will probably have a better time with equal effort. Lowering the VI, for a 'heavier guy' is hard, trust me I know :-). You need to put a lot of watts just to get up the hill and gravity likes you more than the skinny guy on the way down and you spin out often. Get an 11 on the back, really work the crests and valleys and you can close the gap. a bit.
2013-07-10 11:14 AM
in reply to: marcag

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ChrisM

So, went to training peaks and got the numbers there and did the IF myself.  Add'l info, ride #3 was the initial long ride, ride #2 was intentionally over IM target, ride #1 was intended to be at IM targets.  So now even though #1 was the longest, the TSS is the lowest, and more in line with the NP?

 


(1)
5:55
100 mi
6,000 elevation
AP 178
NP 204
VI 1.15
IF  .69
TSS   286
 
(2)
5:28
89 mi
7,000 elevation
AP 190
NP  226
VI  1.16
IF .76
TSS  321
 
(3)
4:58
89 mi
5,100 elevation
AP 193
NP  219
VI 1.13
IF  .74
TSS 311
Long story short....if you ride 2 or 3 in your IM you will probably walk a lot. Look at the chart Ben sent you.if you ride 1, you will have a better runIf you ride 1 but lower that VI and get AP to NP closer, you will probably have a better time with equal effort. Lowering the VI, for a 'heavier guy' is hard, trust me I know :-). You need to put a lot of watts just to get up the hill and gravity likes you more than the skinny guy on the way down and you spin out often. Get an 11 on the back, really work the crests and valleys and you can close the gap. a bit.
Thanks. #1 was actually an IM effort ride. 2 was intentionally above. And spot on with the VI, seems to be exacerbated by shirt climbs during a descent that I tend to try to power up. I am a wuss and about 35 mph is as fast as I am going to go so think I'll have to live with that. Currently have a 12-30 on the back.

and I have to admit to my idiocy. I thought I had done this, but checked the 910 this morning. FTP still set the the old one of 277. Doh! I think I've still learned what I needed from the discussion though.

2013-07-11 10:18 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Any one racing this weekend?  I kind of am.  Do we consider a winery tour a race?  There are a ton here, it will really be an endurance event
2013-07-11 10:25 AM
in reply to: bzgl40

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by bzgl40 Any one racing this weekend?  I kind of am.  Do we consider a winery tour a race?  There are a ton here, it will really be an endurance event

A successfully executed winery tour is very much an endurance event.  It's all about pacing, you have to keep your consumption below threshold or you will blow up (out?) way too early.  

I'm doing a local sprint on Sunday.  The bike and run are both a bit short and the bike has some rough sections that can rattle the teeth out of your head (assuming it wasn't repaved since last year) but it's all pretty flat.

2013-07-11 10:58 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Chris...here's a look at my last 3 long rides.  First 2 were on my road bike, 3rd one on my tri bike.  2nd ride was purposely variable with a few very hard efforts and also some easy riding mixed in.  None of the rides were purposely at IM pace so the VI is naturally really high (also had to do some soft pedaling doubling back for a few others that were riding with us).  But the overall TSS and IF seems to be close.  Assuming an FTP of 270.  I have not tried to run after any of these, but I wasn't totally shelled after any of the rides.  Assuming I had the VI lower, I think I would have been okay at an IF of around .67-.68 and a TSS of around 270.

6/22 - 5:42, 99 miles
AP - 154
NP - 181
VI - 1.18
IF - .67
TSS - 256
Elevation Gain - 2800

6/29 - 5:47, 102 miles
AP - 141
NP - 174
VI - 1.23
IF - .64
TSS - 240
Elevation Gain - 3440

 

7/6 - 6:00, 110 miles
AP - 151
NP - 182
VI - 1.21
IF - .68
TSS - 274
Elevation Gain - 3740



2013-07-11 12:09 PM
in reply to: bzgl40

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by bzgl40 Any one racing this weekend?  I kind of am.  Do we consider a winery tour a race?  There are a ton here, it will really be an endurance event

Sprint on Cape Cod on Saturday.  It's basically the first, last and only "peak" workout before a taper week for an Oly on the 21st (for which I'm actually going to try to taper for real - even though the upcoming HIM has me wigged about losing fitness).  Doing it with some friends, and it's in a beautiful spot (Falmouth), even if you have to run over rocks to get to T1...

We'll be improvising a tour of breweries via their offerings post race, which I look at more as a training event than a competition (although we will still have our race numbers sharpied on us, so it might get ugly!).

Have fun and good luck racers!

Matt

2013-07-11 12:14 PM
in reply to: Jason N

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by Jason N

Chris...here's a look at my last 3 long rides.  First 2 were on my road bike, 3rd one on my tri bike.  2nd ride was purposely variable with a few very hard efforts and also some easy riding mixed in.  None of the rides were purposely at IM pace so the VI is naturally really high (also had to do some soft pedaling doubling back for a few others that were riding with us).  But the overall TSS and IF seems to be close.  Assuming an FTP of 270.  I have not tried to run after any of these, but I wasn't totally shelled after any of the rides.  Assuming I had the VI lower, I think I would have been okay at an IF of around .67-.68 and a TSS of around 270.

6/22 - 5:42, 99 miles
AP - 154
NP - 181
VI - 1.18
IF - .67
TSS - 256
Elevation Gain - 2800

6/29 - 5:47, 102 miles
AP - 141
NP - 174
VI - 1.23
IF - .64
TSS - 240
Elevation Gain - 3440

 

7/6 - 6:00, 110 miles
AP - 151
NP - 182
VI - 1.21
IF - .68
TSS - 274
Elevation Gain - 3740

 

Thanks Jason.  Seems the key to me may be getting that VI down.  When I am descending and hit rollers or an uphill I tend to try to power up to keep up the speed, and blow through some big watts, then back to coasting. 

Have a big ride/run in two days so we'll see  

2013-07-11 12:48 PM
in reply to: bzgl40

Veteran
1677
1000500100252525
Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by bzgl40 Any one racing this weekend?  I kind of am.  Do we consider a winery tour a race?  There are a ton here, it will really be an endurance event

Yep, I'm racing Vineman 70.3 this weekend....well, I'm racing the swim and bike portions and will be trying to survive the run

2013-07-11 2:28 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by bzgl40 Any one racing this weekend?  I kind of am.  Do we consider a winery tour a race?  There are a ton here, it will really be an endurance event

Yep, I'm racing Vineman 70.3 this weekend....well, I'm racing the swim and bike portions and will be trying to survive the run

Good luck Nicole!

2013-07-11 4:08 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

Pro
4482
20002000100100100100252525
NJ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by bzgl40 Any one racing this weekend?  I kind of am.  Do we consider a winery tour a race?  There are a ton here, it will really be an endurance event

Yep, I'm racing Vineman 70.3 this weekend....well, I'm racing the swim and bike portions and will be trying to survive the run

Nicole, good luck and hope the knee holds up for the run! 



2013-07-11 4:13 PM
in reply to: bzgl40

Pro
4482
20002000100100100100252525
NJ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by bzgl40 Any one racing this weekend?  I kind of am.  Do we consider a winery tour a race?  There are a ton here, it will really be an endurance event

Pace yourself and incorporate solid nutrition along the way.  I'm spectating on Sunday. NYC tri. Its usually a madhouse but the weather is supposed to be nice so planning to hang out in Central Park for a bit. 

2013-07-11 4:24 PM
in reply to: bzgl40

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2013-07-11 5:35 PM
in reply to: TSimone

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

A while back, there was discussion about how the aerobars were setup.  last friday night after work went to the hardware store and macguyver'd this together.  Of course, this week Speedfil comes out with a pretty slick looking new bottle plus computer attachment, the Z4.....  

My work - much easier to see than where it was on the stem

 

The new Z4

http://lavamagazine.com/inviscid-designs-debuts-speedfil-z4/

2013-07-11 6:09 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Thanks for that link Chris.  That cage might actually work well for me, not because of the garmin mount, but simply because it has specific areas meant for zip ties to mount.  The way my cage is set up is a bit hard for me to get the zip ties right (my cage sits a little behind the aerobar extensions, so I actually have to zip tie the back to the cage to the stem and headset), but with a cage that has specific holes for zip ties, this may make it 10x easier for me to take on and off.
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