Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread (Page 29)
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2009-12-30 4:49 PM 3 weeks of tapering is way over rated! Not when it's done properly. |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Platzerwasel - 2009-12-30 12:37 PM Who's started training? Sunday was 30 weeks out. I started the Don Fink 30-week program on Monday. Who hasn't started and when do you plan on starting? After Tri season was over I went into cyclo-cross season and that kept my cycling sharp with low volume/high intensity riding. I also been running consistently and like 6 weeks ago I started my general prep for LP;, that is working lots on my limiters, general fitness and body composition via sport specific nutrition to get back to my racing weight. I am working at increasing my cycling power threshold via hard riding on little riding per week plus running often building to run every day. Speed is not important at the moment, just logging minutes/miles running! Swim is on hold due to shoulder injury but that will come over the next few months. I am also doing sport specific strenght training (core, hills, plyos, drills) and I will switch to specific LP training sometime around late Feb early March. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2009-12-30 5:59 PM Platzerwasel - 2009-12-30 12:37 PM Who's started training? Sunday was 30 weeks out. I started the Don Fink 30-week program on Monday. Who hasn't started and when do you plan on starting? After Tri season was over I went into cyclo-cross season and that kept my cycling sharp with low volume/high intensity riding. I also been running consistently and like 6 weeks ago I started my general prep for LP;, that is working lots on my limiters, general fitness and body composition via sport specific nutrition to get back to my racing weight. I am working at increasing my cycling power threshold via hard riding on little riding per week plus running often building to run every day. Speed is not important at the moment, just logging minutes/miles running! Swim is on hold due to shoulder injury but that will come over the next few months. I am also doing sport specific strenght training (core, hills, plyos, drills) and I will switch to specific LP training sometime around late Feb early March. what?!??!?!??!!??!?!?!!? j/k.....lets not get on that topic in a heated fashion..... ![]() on a serious note Jorge, how do you come to what is your ideal race weight? we had a pretty heated discussion within my tri-team on what it is exactly |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-12-30 4:57 PM JorgeM - 2009-12-30 4:49 PM 3 weeks of tapering is way over rated! Not when it's done properly. it is cool it works for you but I know very little pros tapering that much. The Sutton squad is famous for getting into racing with very short tapering (1 week or less). Also, using training models such as Philip Skiba RaceDay you can see this very clear by keeping a training log and letting the model base on yor actual #s and current fitness level suggest your optimal taper schedule. Ask your coach how/where does the 3 week taper "tradition" started; once you get know the history as to why it became famous you might agree why it makes little sense, not to mention physiologically speaking makes even less... |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2009-12-30 5:04 PM bryancd - 2009-12-30 4:57 PM JorgeM - 2009-12-30 4:49 PM 3 weeks of tapering is way over rated! Not when it's done properly. it is cool it works for you but I know very little pros tapering that much. The Sutton squad is famous for getting into racing with very short tapering (1 week or less). Also, using training models such as Philip Skiba RaceDay you can see this very clear by keeping a training log and letting the model base on yor actual #s and current fitness level suggest your optimal taper schedule. Ask your coach how/where does the 3 week taper "tradition" started; once you get know the history as to why it became famous you might agree why it makes little sense, not to mention physiologically speaking makes even less... It's not a "tradition", I could care less about Sutton, and we are not pro's. If you want to send people out to do 100 mile rides 2 weeks before their race, knock yourself out. We'll talk after you do it for yourself... ![]() I agree the number of days is very athlete dependent, some need more, some less. Edited by bryancd 2009-12-30 5:20 PM |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-12-30 5:12 PM JorgeM - 2009-12-30 5:04 PM It's not a "tradition", I could care less about Sutton, and we are not pro's. If you want to send people out to do 100 mile rides 2 weeks before their race, knock yourself out. We'll talk after you do it for yourself... bryancd - 2009-12-30 4:57 PM JorgeM - 2009-12-30 4:49 PM 3 weeks of tapering is way over rated! Not when it's done properly. it is cool it works for you but I know very little pros tapering that much. The Sutton squad is famous for getting into racing with very short tapering (1 week or less). Also, using training models such as Philip Skiba RaceDay you can see this very clear by keeping a training log and letting the model base on yor actual #s and current fitness level suggest your optimal taper schedule. Ask your coach how/where does the 3 week taper "tradition" started; once you get know the history as to why it became famous you might agree why it makes little sense, not to mention physiologically speaking makes even less... ![]() I will, after all I don't suggest anything I don't believe in or haven't tried myself or the other coaches I work or interact with. Besides, I am eager to show how it is possible for other athletes do well on their 1st IM beside you. I know, I know, I know; I never done one before hence I probably don't know what I am talking about and until I race one and actually get to beat your times, you or others won't lend much credibility to what I have to say |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2009-12-30 5:50 PM I know, I know, I know; I never done one before hence I probably don't know what I am talking about and until I race one and actually get to beat your times, you or others won't lend much credibility to what I have to say ![]() Wow! That's....enlightening. Do an Ironman because YOU want to or do one because it's GOOD for your business, but either way, don't whine about it! This is a no crying thread, and those are tears! Whaaaaa!! No one listens to me because I have never done an Ironman! Whaaaaa! ![]() Forget my times, Jorge. This isn't about me, it's about you. It's your day, not mine. As a caoch, i know you would say the same to your athletes. ![]() Edited by bryancd 2009-12-30 5:59 PM |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-12-30 5:57 PM JorgeM - 2009-12-30 5:50 PM I know, I know, I know; I never done one before hence I probably don't know what I am talking about and until I race one and actually get to beat your times, you or others won't lend much credibility to what I have to say Wow! That's....enlightening. Do an Ironman because YOU want to or do one because it's GOOD for your business, but either way, don't whine about it! This is a no crying thread, and those are tears! Whaaaaa!! No one listens to me because I have never done an Ironman! Whaaaaa! ![]() ![]() ![]() That was a joke in reference to a response you made earlier on this thread, I guess the sarcasm was so subtle it got missed. Anyway, no tears, no whining, no excuses from me. Trust me, I have my personal reasons to do an IM though the smack talk is just a plus and keeps the motivation flowing but you still are the crazy uncle ![]() |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() What the hell do i know, I've only been doing this 4 years! ![]() |
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![]() Jorge: So where does the 3-week Tradition come from? Is it Myth? Lastly: I've seen a lot of people right on this site do consistent high volume training for multiple months straight; not the customary 3 week build, 1 week recover model. If your body can handle it (meaning , if you listen to your body, focus on technique, rest and nutrition) is it better to maintain a constant high volume of training -- unless injured or sick? I'm thinking doing a short week every month is perhaps depriving yourself of time you could be getting quality training time in. Your thoughts? Bryan: You got me cracking up with the smack talk! |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-12-30 7:30 PMWhat the hell do i know, I've only been doing this 4 years! Exactly. So shut your trap. If more people would listen to me around here, half the podiums would be BTers. Oh yeah, and Jorge...can you remind me again if 95% FT means my 95% of my 20 min pace or my 60 min pace?![]() |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bryancd - 2009-12-30 4:46 PM coredump - 2009-12-30 4:40 PM When and where for beers?! Gordon Biersch Brewery in Tempe is great!bryancd - 2009-12-30 4:14 PM coredump - 2009-12-30 4:12 PM Specific prep for IMLP starts sometime after the Phoenix Marathon in Jan. Hey, when will you be here?! Where are you staying?Getting in on the 15th (Fri), fly back on the 18th (Mon). Staying at the Loft? hotel. A decent midwest contingent is invading for the race. Yes! Let's have some beers! ![]() |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Swishyskirt and I volunteered in the women's transition area last year (not that you'd be able to volunteer in the women's transition area, but...). We got to see the swim start, last swimmer out, pros come in, last man across the finish line at midnight. I think men feel demasculinized in the men's TA though...too much nekkidness?? I'd say go for the bike area...I told my husband to sign up to volunteer with taking bikes or handing them off. ENJOY!! wstchstrTriathlete - 2009-12-30 8:37 AM I have decided to volunteer for Lake Placid this year. Signups will be open in January. What is the best volunteer position? I am looking for a position that will give me a great overview of the race but will also allow me to see all of you athletes so I can cheer you on. Thoughts? |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm going to follow the 20 week BT plan in 10 weeks! =p Until then...I'm working on getting some strength back in this bod to prepare for the onslaught of training. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm stealing your idea! Dream Chaser - 2009-12-30 4:44 PM Platzerwasel - 2009-12-30 1:37 PM Who's started training? Sunday was 30 weeks out. I started the Don Fink 30-week program on Monday. Who hasn't started and when do you plan on starting? I started my plan just this Monday. I going to follow the BT Beginner IM plan till the 2nd week in March, when I will transition to the 20-week BT Intermediate IM Plan. The way I look at it, we only have 6 months to get in shape, cause three weeks are tapering. Cusetri that's an excellent point, holy cow -- those 22 weeks went faaast! |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Dream Chaser - 2009-12-30 7:41 PM Jorge: So where does the 3-week Tradition come from? Is it Myth? It is not a myth, IMO just misunderstanding of sport physiology. In a nutshell: Periodization was basically invented in the former Soviet Union in the early 50s by L.P. Matveyev, later made famous by Tudor Bompa and some coaches/sports borrowed what Bompa presented from periodization and apply it to other sports more specifically it become common practice on running. Anyway, the way Matveyev came up with this method and how Bompa interpret and other coaches/athletes used it subsequently is what's make it a flawed and outdated approach. Basically what Matveyev did was prior the Helsinki Olympic Games was to provide a general questionnaire to some of the Soviet Union athletes and ask them how they trained. This went to different athletes in different sports; then he gathered, generalized the results and published as the periodization concept in mid 60s and became famous due to the dominance and success of SU coaches and athletes and amazingly it was used, unchallenged and remained unchanged for nearly 30 years even though the method has nothing to do with physiology or considered the differences among athletes/sport Later on coaches/scientists criticized this model; guys like Zanon, Tschiene and Verhoshansky had pointed out the flaws and drivel from this approach. Zanon a known expert of Soviet Union’s training doctrine pointed out how in most coaches/athletes in fact didn’t not train in the way Matveyey suggested. Later Tschiene and Verhoshansky proposed new methodology and it eventually morphed into what informed coaches/athletes use today unfortunately some of the popular 'methods' that were made by Matveyev/Bompa and in our sport it has remained popular thanks to some coaches that started coaching years ago and writing books; fortunately for them this approach will yield results in particular in inexperienced athletes hence it has remain 'popular' though that doesn't mean it is the optimal way of training or that athletes missed the opportunity to perform even better. Each athlete has different needs and we all respond different to training adaptations and due to our sport format it is normal and expected for us to have different tapering needs per sport. Most athletes could/should follow a different tapering schedule for each sport but more specifically and physiologically wise tapering for 3 weeks is not necessary nor optimal. Some athletes might need tapering for running for a few weeks while only need to taper for a week for biking and swimming, others might need 1 week for running, 5 days for swimming and 12 days for biking. Using training models such as the one presented on RaceDay makes this very obvious and easy to manage for each athlete,. Simple by keeping a training log and quantifying how much an athlete can train, how fast or not he/she recovers from hard and/or long sessions and testing to have current fitness one can obtain a tapering schedule specific for each sports for each athlete. At the end of the day athletes are free to train in any way they prefer, it is obvious what Bryan does works for him and if it isn't broke don't fix it; however if I can make some of you guys think twice and question why do we train in certain ways and help you find the best approach for you I think that's a good thing. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Right, a taper should be part of "The Plan" based on your overall training load, recovery required, ect., as Jorge said. I was just challenging the notion that 3 weeks is somehow not optimal or correct, nothing is correct, it is all athlete dependent. And now we have a good review of tapering int he thread, although 6 months too early for all of you. ![]() |
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![]() That was very informative. Thanks Jorge. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Or you can do what I do...Just let Jorge tell me what to do*. :P *while asking questions all the time to challenge/question why we are doing things for clarity. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Marvarnett - 2009-12-31 10:34 AM Or you can do what I do...Just let Jorge tell me what to do*. :P *while asking questions all the time to challenge/question why we are doing things for clarity. Ha! x2 to the entire post. especially the *! Well said, Dan. ![]() |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Marvarnett - 2009-12-31 10:34 AM Or you can do what I do...Just let Jorge tell me what to do*. :P *while asking questions all the time to challenge/question why we are doing things for clarity. Is this a coach the coach situation? |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I may as well start tapering right now! |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I ended 2009 with a craptastic TWO mile run. Here's to a happy and healthy New Year and having a fun, fast race in LP in July!!! |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() The pre-made bottles use HFCS. The powder does not, it uses different sugars ( sucrose and fructose? ). From the Gatorade website:"Does Gatorade include High Fructose Corn Syrup? Why or Why not?The High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) is in Gatorade as a source of two of the three carbohydrates. HFCS contributes glucose and fructose. Sucrose is the third sugar. All are present in specific amounts that research has shown assures rapid fluid absorption, optimal energy delivery and great taste. High Fructose Corn Syrup and sucrose provide the ideal level of sweetness, fast absorption, and carbohydrate for energy burning that Gatorade has always delivered. This formula provides the most efficacious product for the cost to the consumer. We could use other sources of the same sugars – glucose and fructose – but it would cost dramatically more and have no additional benefit. Scientific experts believe there is no scientific proof to show that there is any difference between the effects on the body of HFCS and sucrose. Research shows that your body digests and uses carbohydrates from high fructose corn syrup the same way it digests other sweeteners like table sugar.11 American Medical Association. Report 3 of the Council on Science and Public Health, 2008."Also, of interest...Gatorade Thirst Quencher contains the electrolytes sodium, chloride and potassium – the key electrolytes lost through sweat. Because elite and endurance athletes can lose a greater amount of these electrolytes during training and competition – particularly sodium, a key component of fluid balance and the hydration process – Gatorade Endurance Formula contains twice the sodium (200 mg) as a similar size serving of Gatorade Thirst Quencher. Gatorade Endurance Formula also contains three times the potassium (90 mg) as well as chloride, magnesium and calcium to more fully replace electrolytes lost during longer, more intense workouts, or multiple training sessions in one day.Interesting, with the fructose, I've got a 2005 nutrition textbook that says fructose takes longer to absorb than glucose or galactose and fructose absorption is limited in almost 60% of adults and intestinal distress, symptomatic of malabsorption, frequently appears following ingestion of 50 g of pure fructose... I think the label mentions something about 14 g of carbs/ 8 oz? Also, consumption of glucose with fructose accelerates the absorption of fructose and raises the threshold level at which malabsorption symptoms appear.Moral of the story?? You're okay with the high fructose corn syrup in Gatorade since they use a combo of sugars. Just don't over-do it. =) |
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